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N8-Toe

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    n8toe

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Plasma Researcher

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  1. Cant say I've had a bad experience with any of their chars, as well their application is really well written and reflective on the role of a command member +1 from me!
  2. would a tacky "crew appreciation plaque" in the D3 garden or chapel be on brand than. Give a spot for characters to RP about their friend who died, but also sorta reinforce the corporation is a souless entity that does not care for their lives. Or is that even drifting too close. Or does having just the chapel already fill that niche of RP venue
  3. yeah I think having just sorta in the "cannon" there's a rec room, a cafeteria, or just very bare bones things I think works. In my head, I usually imagine the habitation deck as just being abit nicer than IRL commercial ships. But I think what is most critical. is that the deck the game takes place on is where anything interesting/of note happens. The time in round should be a characters defining moments. And it shouldn't ever take narrative backseat to out of game RP
  4. yeah I think this will undercut the bridge crew having an automated ferry. if we want another shuttle, why not add one thats on Point verdant that they can fly up to take passengers. but adding an automated shuttle cuts into the Bridge crew's role, as well opens the box to the automating of other shuttles.
  5. N8-Toe

    Return Rat

    I remember the rat hordes, eating food, crashing situations, getting yeeted by turrets, and being a vague backround radiation in some rounds. with that said 100% I want the fuzzy fuckers back
  6. I mean non standard punishment for minor/medium offenses should 100% fully be a thing. Just leaving some room for creativity. Things like being ordered to go clean up the mess, or even for minor things having your punishment being make an apology. More RP involved resolutions than "swipe here to pay the fine in space monopoly money" and if they botch that option given to them or refuse, well just fine/brig I wont lie I am struggling for good alternatives for things such as "Billy killed someone". Because from the characters perspective he's a threat, and generally your not going to give them their tools back. Lobotomy is just grimderp and I really wouldn't want to be as an antag as tbh I'd feel under glass. trackered, chemical implant and unable to directly harm people. I am cornered from not just continuing hostilities, but doing anything but just mindlessly do what im told. I can play a Viax if I want that. idk.. sentenced to join the mining team? its off ship, and worst case if you pick axe someone they just leave you behind. That could be an option
  7. So actual question here. if the offmap is already docked or aboard for non security related things. like I'm Captain and the kataphracts are just in the bar telling war stories, and a security situation occurs that spirals out of control. Do I still need to have a distress beacon launched, if command is in full agreement to ask the kataphracts who are already aboard for help? I ask because it doesn't feel intuitive to launch a beacon for people already aboard.
  8. Fully against this. And I feel goes against the spirit of the RP we want to build. There is no "Cannon captain of the Horizon" and I dislike opening the door to "well you have to be THIS recognizable to have importance in an event".
  9. They need to be allowed to pick objectives that they can win. I don't know how well people would take me as an antag doing a sabotage or assassination objective. Sure I could do an announcement giving a heads up "oooh evil mictalin saboteurs" may be aboard. but thats also asking me to softball to security and the crew. if I announce someone may be here to wack the cap... well code blue, sec's armed, captain has armor, and is in the bunker. Can my achievable goal be to kill the captain, sabotage medical or the brig, perhaps rob cargo, mug some crewman, or hold up the bar. As well if it is 1 v 10 situation, and sec is fighting them with lethals they should fully be allowed to go to the boards. hostages, bombs, sabotage, and lethal force the works. I bring up these. because these are things within the ability of an traitor who can be defined as a "A man with a gun and a plan". These do generate RP, and tell a story even if there is not monologues and announcements ahead of time. This creates disruption, it has a goal, I'd have some kind of justification for it.. Maybe I'm sick of the SCC so I wanna knock off the captain, maybe I got gambling debts and need the money so a hostile group is paying me or I'm going to rob the ship. These are "Winnable" objectives. I can measure victory. But now lets be actually honest. My gimmick involves me saying anti corporate things to my co workers, sniding about management on the radio, than when I see the captain in the hall way alone I say "Up yours corpo scum" and blap em with a gun, and run away. Ditch the piece and try and lay low.. Maybe try and get the XO next. Is that.. a good gimmick? or did I take a player out of the round without RP and im going to be talking to an admin. I created RP, the captains dead, there is an investigation, maybe it'll lead to me and I'll make a run for it or a last stand. maybe it wont. I rob cargo with a mask on and change of clothes, I grab the money, I grab the bread, and I run. ditch the disguise, and hide till transfer since sec is searching. Is.. that a good gimmick or did I fail to create RP. The reason I bring this up is again. I think we're lying to ourselves. People where saying "well we need antags who are not trying to carry the round fully". I just gave you some examples, if you where the captain who got blapped by me with your RP buildup being maybe I snark at you once on radio, and me shouting something before killing you. Are you ahelping? IF your the cargo tech who I pistol whip to take your ID, than leg it and lay low for the rest of the round. Are you ahelping me, or at the end of round when your sec and realize I layed low. If we want the offmap to be the antags. are you going to ahelp when you die without warning when the bar is hit by an HE round because command insulted a pirate. The core we need to see here is to fix our culture, we need to be lighter on antags. We need to lower their thresh hold for violence, and we need to punish players who refuse to play along, yes and roleplay, or go out of their way to just shut them down. I fully believe people should eat command bans for dismissing gimmicks or trying to fax them, and regular people should be eating week bans for taunting armed angry men with guns. We also need to remove the fear people have that they're just going to get bwoinked if they antag, or get salted at. I dont play traitor because I've seen people antag banned for what I think was wildly unfair, and I dont want to loose my command whitelist. We can't have our cake and eat it too. If we want antags who carry the round, they need to have gear that lets them enforce that gimmick as well the OOC rules and culture that they should be allowed to If we want antags who act as sorta B and C plots, well we need to accept events that disrupt our rounds may not be as "grand" if we want off map antags. They either have to be able to be a true threat, and initiate hostilities, or they're just NPC's
  10. The thing with off maps is it would require a culture/policy change. As of right now the off maps essentially need the consent of the Horizon to interact with them. and do so on their terms. To have off maps be a more significant source of conflict I believe would require them to be allowed to antagonize or engage the horizon of their own initiative, as well a removal of the leviathan. It would be hard for me as a person on the Tarwa ship to try and extort the Horizon for passage through my turf, or be a trader who got in a dispute with the crew if the crew has a "Screw you I win" button. If the interactions still have to be on the Horizons terms, it neuters it. And we get the issue of people would just, arguably as some do now, treat the offmap people as NPC's. The antagonist model works, because you have to engage with them. You can't turn away from the guy saying "I'm from Mictalin here to make the SCC pay" if the guy has a gun in your face. Command can't tell the man with a bomb "We don't want to play with you". It happens like it or not. If we want to have offmaps be a conflict driver, we suddenly have to be ok with eating an HE shell to the face because we told the angry pirates no, or them nabbing our miners. I think alot of the issue we have is the incongruity with what people want an antag to be, with what an antag is. People seem to want the round to be disrupted... but not their round. They want an antagnosit to shoot, or to heal the victims of. but I feel alot of people are not ok being the one getting killed by the antagonist, or who's workplace gets blown up. I think we need to again as a community take a step back and acknowledge if we have antagonists, on or off ship. They will disrupt the round, and that includes our round. And when we readied up to play the game, we agreed that could happen to us. Heck, I say lower the re spawn timer if your character dies to five minutes. That way your not out of the game, and can keep playing with everyone if you do die
  11. If I could like MattAtlas's post twice I would. I think they very clearly hit the nail on the head on alot of issues. I used to main medical, I still dabble in it now and even CMO. On sensors if we're going to keep them. what ive seen on other servers is the sprite for the sensor console will flash red or otherwise indicate someone is in critical condition. that way you dont need to actually be at the console, just look in its vague direction once in awhile. Also if we must keep them, I think they should be abstracted. Telling you "Deck three starboard" at most. but I also see the benefit to their removal. To echo NG Dying is fine. You consent to your character possibly dying when you ready up to the round. To address the concern of bleeding out with no one knowing your in trouble, My advice would be to leverage your teamwork. Your an engineer going into maint to fix a sudden alarm? tell the other engineers so they know where you are if you stop replying, perhaps take a buddy with you to protect you from the rouge main drone hordes. Antags desperately need breathing room on Aurora, and I think this would be a step in that direction ,
  12. If removing borging if off the table. Can we than discuss the IC/OOC standards to use these pseudo executions. What situations do we think should be appropriate then. What standard do the staff judge as "reasonable and good play" to execute the antag? Again as I have pointed out several times the regs allow the summery borging of antags explicitly, so what situations should we consider ahelp or complaint worthy.
  13. The Crew is 100% as responsible for escalation as the antag. arguably more so as they have more resources to bring about. The crew can turn a 20/100 situation into a 100/100 situation and the antag can do nothing about it. If I as an antag am say, dealing drugs. Maybe I got a knife or a pistol.. well security can go to code blue, fully gear, and jump me 1 v 5. They have chosen to escalate and I am at their mercy of either I escalate and fight, or I capitulate. From experience, if I capitulate I will often end my round in a cell as they'll try and keep me there. Now lets use the example case 1. The mutinious warden. The Antag drove escalation for the round, there was good RP, with crew escalating as well. No one died. Ian died, and I think they exchanged some laser fire with a bridge crewman. So They are shot, and captured. the situation has gone from 50/100 back to 10/100. It is ON THE CREW. To escalate their RP, to act reasonably and in effort of a good story. In this instance the crew just took them from medical and borged them within minutes of capture. That is going 100/100. The crew escalated a situation needlessly. The traitor was disarmed, and cuffed to a bed. Would you consider it proper escalation for an antag who captures and cuffs a sec officer... to just, after a minute or two walk over and kill them. Probably not no.. The crew should be held to a HIGHER STANDARD when it comes to violence and force than the antag. If they are not, the antag is screwed in all forms, and we hurt our chance to make a good story. 2: Again in my example.. the options you have given are "resign" which again I will get IR'ed or bwoinked if I am quitting every fourth round over something that is legal and allowed by regs. I will be told "your character signed up for this". I will get sanctioned by the staff for that. My other option as said.. is armed mutiny, which again, I will get in trouble for if I am always doing that. There is no way to consistently as a sec impede or get in the way of borging or make a grand stand.. without it getting old and me sanctioned. I guarantee it with every fiber of my being. Borging is not some one in a 100 round thing. It happens kinda often I'd say. 3: Ok.. sure it'd be more fun. go back to previously said.. what is the crew to just have a mutiny every other time someone is borged? going to the other thing that is said here, people might not have much sympathy for the antag.. so we need to have OOC steps taken to protect the antag from just being lynched or otherwise having their round ruined because they're on the "other team" and may be outnumbered 30 to 1 counting the whole crew. 4: Yes it is part of a larger issue of people expecting much from antags, while giving them little, and operating under the assumption the crew and SCC must win every conflict. Now if you have a solution to all of this, I am all ears. but I view over borging and executing as a part of this, and have made this thread to hopefully treat a symptom. Will it fix everything? no, will it at least help, absolutely, 5: The antag is here to antagonize. They will use violence, they will subterfuge, they will sabotage the ship, they will kill peoples friends, they will make threats, they will grandstand for terror groups. They will steal your christmas cookies and set whoville on fire. they are the bad guys. We cannot say they deserve to have their round needlessly ended, or treated poorly because "well you did bad things". Of course they did, infact they did us all a solid by readying up and enabling antag so we all can play the fun gamemodes. If their reward for doing that, and taking on all the pressure that comes with that... is we just killed them the moment they're captured without fanfare. I can't imagine they'll keep playing antag. Why do we have interogation, cells, investigators and all of that if the cap can just say "borg em" and they go from medical, to machinist, to beep boop or ghost out. 6: Borging sucks compared to marooning because of how simple it is.. you are taken in cuffs, usually from medical.. and just thrown on a table with a suppressor black screen.. and now your forced to be a borg.. or just ghost. you die while sedated with nothing you can do to stop it. no counter play, no appeal. Often if you've fought the crew you've by now been in medical so any freedom implants gone. This whole process from "borg them" to you being brainless can be five minutes. and often is. Marooning is a whole process, your awake, and you can wander the astroid or atleast bitch about it. I think borging should go, and the thresh hold to maroon raised to "they are an uncontained threat or otherwise the mere act of keeping them on the ship will gravely endanger the lives of the crew". It should be uncommon, and if its used as a "I want to win/not deal with you button" start stripping whitelists. This solves the problem of the crew executing antags on capture, and forces them to actually RP with them and play ball. And assures antag players they wont just be killed
  14. I'm also going to reply directly to this This isn't the rules. This isn't on the wiki under regs or SOP. This is, and I am sorry, just kinda.. hopeful thinking? A crewmember can be borged on first offense for "Attempted murder" on the captains order, essentially summarily. There is no requirement of multiple escapes, there is no requirement for them being uncooperative. None of this is on the wiki or mentioned anywhere. If this is the policy, it is unenforced, not promulgated anywhere clearly for the playerbase to see. And is not the standard this suggestion should be judged against. It is per regulation, allowed, for the Captain to order someone who shoots at or stabs at security during an arrest, which could be called attempted murder. To just be taken from medical and borged. There is nothing aganst any IC regulation or policy stopping them. Again why the examples I listed are not being made a player complaint is they are 100% allowed to do that. I also find the implication of "either nobody knows your character, you've (or your goals have) been difficult or impossible to sympathise with, or haven't interacted with the crew in a positive light at all." To be bad coming from a staff member. "be more popular if you want people to not let you get executed right after arrest" is a bad take and implication. The antagonist is also there to provide conflict, of course its hard to sympathize with them. They're almost supposed to be. Which is why we then have OOC and IC rules and guidelines stopping the crew from just lynching them, because that gets old after awhile, and isn't really fun. Edit: this is what wiki says on borging Regarding cyborgification The SCCV Horizon is registered as a Biesel ship, and therefore Biesel laws apply aboard. Biesel law does not consider cyborgification capital punishment, making it an optional punishment. If Nralakk Federation citizens have a Do Not Borgify order in their records, their punishment becomes holding until transfer instead of cyborgification. If a captain is not present to authorize cyborgification, the command staff must pass a majority vote to authorize it. and marooning An individual being marooned will have their employment considered terminated, their person stripped of all workplace equipment and left on the nearest celestial body or current port of call with their personal belongings. Humans, Tajara, Skrell and IPC are to be given a basic softsuit, oxygen (or a suit cooler unit) and a GPS. Vaurca and Diona are to be given k'ois or a source of light instead. A majority vote is required to pass a marooning unless a Captain is present, at which point the Captain may call for a marooning without Command support. An after-action report must be faxed to Central after a marooning has occurred There is NO stated requirement for anything beyond it being ordered by command.
  15. 1: No it isn't that much. In the examples I gave, the crew offered no escalation once captured. it was in cuffs, boom zoom, off to the machinist. And that escalation to.. what? in the first example there was escalation and a climax to the conflict. the warden got shot and arrested. Borging them, with no announcement, no fanfare, heck I didn't know they where being borged and I was a sec officer. That isn't escalation thats just valid hunting. And again not a player complaint as the rules and IC regs allow it. There is nothing saying they need an announcement or fanfare, or even processing, or even anything. They can just take them from medical and just silently have them borged. That is allowed. And is what happened, and what has happened before and will happen again. The antag escalates and RP's and has all of these burdens to reach for violence. yet the crew is not bound by that it seems as they can just kill them in effect once captured and in cuffs. they might as well, just put the cuffed antag to the wall and shoot them at that point. And again how is that fair to the antag who again has all this restriction and pressure on them to escalate and build over those 2 hours... just to be killed while in cuffs, black screened on an operating table right after capture? how is that fun, or fair to that player. And on ganking, do again remember, its often 5 v 1. Why is it ganking and an issue when its the antag at a disadvantage. but built up conflict when its the armed sec team with crew support killing their cuffed prisoner with minimal RP. Why does the antag have more burden to their decision to kill than the whole ass crew and whitelisted command. 2: Try to perform your job to a satisfactory standard is a rule. I would get IR'ed and bwoinked faster than my head could spin if I was consistently refusing orders by the captain as security. And again people have stated over and over on this thread mutiny is a borgable offense and "rightfully so". So... what am I just to do? as again As the rules are written, and policy and IC regs. the Captain can just have my ass killed if I try and make some grandstand and encourage others to refuse. So it really does come down to "Do it or die" or "Do it or have to explain to an admin why im starting a mutiny that will very likely turn violent and hijack the round". I don't think the staff want me starting an armed revolt every forth round as a sec officer. 3: Thats a cool scenario. it doesn't happen. As again, if you do that, you are as the regs, policy, and examples will show, next on the table. All as a non antag. That is a stars align moment. But almost every round will not have that star align moment. People are not going to often throw molotovs at the captain as a non antag, especially to stick their neck out for the antag who very likely may have been shooting at them 5 minutes ago. as others have said, people are really hard on, and sometimes just, mean, to the antag and its player. I dont see riots to help them unless its some beloved character. We circle back to again. Borging, and also the loose standards to enforce an execution, are the problem. While they may be a symptom of a great problem. they themselves are still the problem. We as a community expect the antag to do alot, we expect them to drive conflict, be robust, while also RP'ing and giving us a fun scenario. We often as a community let them down or are harsh on this pressure.. So why should the crew not be expected to RP back with them, and provide them content once they have the upper hand. Its wildly unfair for the crew to just be killing them once captured, and especially with the excuse of "its the end of the round". What I hear is "the crew/sec needs their cookie for playing, and should get to just ice the antag with minimal RP so they get to win".
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