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[Withdrawn] Burger's Developer Application

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Ckey/BYOND Username: BurgerBB


Position Being Applied For: Coder


Past Experiences/Knowledge:

Lua Programming in Gmod (Like, 10 years)

BYOND (~1 year)

Spending 1,000 in the Creation Kit, only to not release anything.

Taking programming courses (JavaScript, Java) in university. Looking to get a bachelor's degree.


Examples of Past Work:

- Custom Kinetic Accelerators (SOON)

- Dionaea Autohiss

- Adding more food, chainsaws.

- Fixing a buckling bug that was around since forever

- Various service map changes that contain no code

- A very successful junkfood PR that caused players to get more involved in PRs more.

- Mental Medications Overhaul that caused policy changes

- ERP tokens and belly rubs.

https://github.com/pulls?q=is%3Apr+author%3ABurgerLUA+archived%3Afalse+is%3Aclosed


Preferred Mode of Communication (Skype, Steam, etc.): Discord (Burger#3948)


Additional Comments:

Ask me anything.

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Burger is great! His developments projects have sometimes caused tension or open revolt, but all of his projects come from a sincere, good-faith dedication to the server. He can be feisty sometimes but he is a good contributor and should be able to take on projects in a more official capacity.

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To explain my opinion on Burger requires a metaphor.

 

Imagine the server as a restaurant where patrons, the players, come to consume enjoyment at expense of their time.

The restaurant of Aurora is famous for its sweets, Icing on their otherwise standard affair besides a few exceptions.

Here sweets are good, but not very filling. There's not much else for your taste buds to discover beyond the first few bites. So ever more, newer sweets are made to offset.

Then comes along Burger, who aptly named, becomes a chef in our metaphorical eating establishment.

Burger, seeing the vague disillusionment towards sweets decides to make a brand new menu,

In it, Burger has sweet and sour meals, and everything in between, a breadth of choices.

Some patrons like these choices, some don't. Some wonder where the new sweets have gone.

In all cases though, it took longer for the customers to process exactly whether they disliked or liked Burgers meals.

Patrons organizing their anger and opinions prompted the restaurant management to make some alterations to make Burgers meals more palatable so that everybody's experience is enriched by this.


This is because Burgers meals had captured what originally made patrons fall in love with Aurora.

Burger's meals have a depth and complexity and are not just some creative frosting on the same cake. They are fulfilling, in short.

Some people dislike some of Burgers meals, but that's ok because as a whole no one ever really likes EVERYTHING a single restaurant produces.

 

 


Inadvertently or not Burger helped created an environment where the average player is more aware of what is being added and changed to the game. I know they are not solely responsible, as around the time they first blanched off their contributions, development outreaches began. I cannot help but feel that their rise to recognition was prompted or affected by this. I cannot say much else about Burger beyond to say that they are feisty at times, but so is everyone who has strong options, and to me, to have such strong opinions in the first place means they care on some level about the server, and the state of the game as a whole.

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Burger's a good boy and his contributions are largely great. He's a feisty scamp but I think he can be reasonable when need be. +1

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+1. I've gotten equally or more feisty with you in disagreement with how you've done changes for code contributions but they've mostly been a net positive in terms of adding interesting features/expanding existing stuff to emphasize depth and fun. Don't call people disabled because of the disagreements getting out of hand, though, it's ill-fitting of anyone to do, that's my only negative concern right now.


Out of curiosity, beyond what's already on the github, what's the next project you had in mind? Could you hash out a listing on what you want to do next, irrespective of whether this application is accepted?

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What?!? Burger isn't already a coder?.. I just assumed he was based on his work...


Also love this:

A very successful junkfood PR that caused players to get more involved in PRs more.

 

EDIT: Removed my +1 for reasons detailed in later post.

Edited by Guest

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Out of curiosity, beyond what's already on the github, what's the next project you had in mind? Could you hash out a listing on what you want to do next, irrespective of whether this application is accepted?

 

Regardless of whether or not I get accepted as a dev, my next projects will be the following, in most likely to least likely order:


- An extension of custom KAs (more attachments + features, based on feedback)

- Reworking do_after() (See: Progress Bar Actions) to be less garbage/buggy

- In-game Calculators

- Xenobiology rework

- Changeling rework

- Cooking rework

- Research rework

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Burger's work and dedication to improvements speaks for his skills, and I think this is an excellent step for him. I can't say I love his attitude a lot of the time, but it's a small personal gripe. Nothing that gets in my way of supporting this. +1


Edit 7/18


Nope, no way. Conduct has gone from "I don't like his attitude" to "Totally unacceptable."

-1

Edited by Guest

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I've been incredibly impressed by the layers upon layers in Burger's design. He's not afraid of taking a big bite out of the apple and delivering on huge projects in short periods of time. I mean, mental medications and the psych rework was a massive project that one would expect to take much longer than it did for Burger. His outside the box thinking and willingness to challenge assumptions may not be everyone's cup of tea, but it helps keep Aurora fresh and new.


+1

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Given that you can already contribute to the code (and do so, extensively), why do you want to be on the dev team?

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+1 Burger is always coding new interesting features and is fixing bugs. It is funny that lots of his PRs made people scream, causing either extreme happiness or uhm hatred.

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Given that you can already contribute to the code (and do so, extensively), why do you want to be on the dev team?

 

erp chat

 

More say in making projects. More discussion in upcoming projects.

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Oke, well, this has sat for a bit. I'll pester the developers to provide concrete input over the next few days.


My general opinions at the moment are a :+1: though. Burger is active and has a drive, which is needed. Also writes decentcode. There have been minor issues in the past with him, but I hope we can overcome them and that they won't pop up again.

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I was on the fence for a while, even with the previous controversy, but as of now after some stuff i've read, I don't think Burger is a fit for Aurora staff. The level of stone cold disrespect he's shown to people offering feedback on his additions is appaling. I can't trust him to respond in good faith or treat the Aurora playerbase with any modicum of decency-- He's shown that he has little to no regard for anything people say, he doesn't even take his 'feedback' threads seriously, instead saying they're a waste of time and only dev opinion matters. He can't be trusted to act in good faith in regard to the community.

 

I'm not going to code something that I have 0 motivation to code for. That's how it works when I'm not getting paid to do any of this. I think a lot of people here are forgetting this.

I've repeated this several times to several people who brought up the same depressing point; which is something along the likes of "Miners are selfish/dumb this is bad for those poor poor miners, science is smart make them involved instead :("

I'm just going to start ignoring bad posts that paint miners in a negative light. Honestly I prefer posts that just saying "-1 retard addon" because it's faster to read and doesn't contain a very depressing viewpoint of our community.

Then perhaps when the pr gets merged (it will) you can modify it to your liking :)

Scientists are spoiled brats as it is,

science would constantly cry over common about materials like a spoiled child whose mother told them they can't go to mcdonalds every day.

If you're a science player and you feel left in the dark because of this, then tough titties.

Okay so the beauty of being a contributor is that I get to code whatever the heck I want unless the developers find that the code I produce is unsatisfactory

I don't think he can be trusted to work in a team, nor would he paint the devs in a decent light. These are all snippets from a recent feedback thread on Asteroid dungeons.

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A lot of those require context of the attitude of the thread. It's best to read the context of those posts in the meantime.


Regardless, I am unsure if this is allowed to be made public or not, but Skull took serious note of my behavior and said that they would most likely do a trial run where I'm on the jedi council but I'm not the rank of master I will be granted "Trial Developer" for a period of 3 months to see how well I work with others. That might've changed, I'm not sure as Skull is dealing with some unrelated issues and still likely waiting for feedback.


I'm speaking as a living, breathing, human being when I say all those things. My absolute #1 pet peeve as a contributor is people forgetting that I'm doing all this work for volunteer. It gets absolutely irritating when people act like that I'm supposed to obey people when they suggest changes that I do not agree with, especially when they're suggesting it maliciously. I'm not ashamed to admit that everything I make benifits me, however that doesn't mean I'm not willing to do things that may not affect me, such as a science rework or fun antag stuff like chainsaws. Those issues won't pop up when working in a team because I'm sure everyone is on the same page. As far as I know, developers here don't get paid and will only do things that they feel like doing, which is incredibly fine and normal. The head developers aren't dicks, so I doubt that they would be demanding me to work on implementing 6 million different floor length braid hairstyles.


However, if people see how I express annoyance an issue, that's fine by me. I will continue to contribute to aurorastation no matter what my current rank is. Unless it's permabanned, in that case I will make a PR that rebases to vorestation.

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Objectively? Looks like you've opened some good PRs, and you describe them nicely. You should review other PRs. Developers do a lot of that.

Subjectively? Dunno the guy so can't say.


So :+1:.

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In my opinion, Burger has decent code. I've seen some issues mainly with his attitude and with the... scope? Of new features he tries to add. Like many of our developers and contributors (some notable ones are Fowl and Pacman, as well as Burger), he seems to prefer the stick to the carrot when trying to impact player behavior. However, in the instances where he has tried to catch flies with honey instead of vinegar, I've seen some very good results- notable examples are the upcoming modular kinetic accelerator and mine ruins PRs.

In terms of player attitude, I have some gripes regarding behavior in OOC and with specific character. However, it's nothing that I think will impact Burger's work as a dev.

Honestly? I feel like Burger would do well as a dev, though maybe he needs to re-examine what direction he takes his development in (I think his recent work showcases what he can do if applied in the right way very well), or perhaps instead be put on a shorter leash regarding what contributions will and won't be accepted.

A notable example of the 'stick instead of the carrot' behavior is the vendor food change that was both widely disliked by players as well as game breaking. I heard an alternate proposal, also by Burger (to my knowledge), that involved foods made on-station being buffed/more beneficial, while keeping vendor food the baseline. Without commenting on the balance or feasibility of that specific proposal, I think that the kind of logic demonstrated in that suggestion is more of what we need to see. I already see this with how, in order to make modular KAs interesting and useful, they were buffed instead of nerfing the non-modular KAs.

I think Burger would do well on the development team (with some personal reflection), and I look forward to seeing what he has to offer Aurora, as after a while of gaining experience he seems to be moving in the right direction.


EDIT: Given recent events that show that Burger hasn't changed at all, I retract my +1.

Edited by Guest

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Burger's like a chimp with a machine gun. A lot of power and no restraint. He's going to put in whatever he wants, and he doesn't care if you or anybody else likes it. As soon as you elevate him to the status of developer, you're going to make him think that he's got a blank check to do whatever he wants to Aurora code. He already displays this behavior, so I shudder to imagine how bad it could get once you all let him think his opinion is intrinsically more valuable than everyone else's. I know you're all desperate for the rapidity of changes he offers, but I feel some of you are going to get serious buyer's remorse on this one.


And it would be one thing if he only acted with callous disregard for the desires of the Aurora community, but even worse, he is extremely bloodthirsty and pedantic about it. As has been observed on multiple occasions, if you disagree with one of his suggestions, then he treats you like a personal enemy and quickly resorts to mockery and mudslinging to try undermining anyone who's not on board with his changes. And if that doesn't work, he just wipes his hands and says, "Oh well. I'm the guy who makes the changes, so you're gonna have to deal with it :)"


It is my observation that Burger doesn't have a suitable temperament to act as part of the development team. You might like a lot of the changes he will make to the game. But then, you also might not - if you don't, you're going to be shit out of luck. We would get better results by just letting him continue to code as an independent contributor. He's going to be coding his pet projects either way; it's better that he have more, rather than fewer, checks and balances.


-1

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I initially gave a +1 to this thread when it came out, but I've decided to remove it after having followed a few suggestion/feedback threads. I'm not switching it to a -1, I'm just neutral now. He seems to do good work and arguably quite fast, which is nice, but I don't think fast is always needed.


Like some others I'm worried by his behavior. I don't hold the mercenary attitude of a contributor he has against him, it is a perfectly reasonable attitude, but he follows it up with a short fuse and/or hostility.


Would you becoming a developer change your attitude or behavior in some way? Your answer to Synnono's question

More say in making projects. More discussion in upcoming projects.

doesn't make much sense to me since as a contributor you have all the say in your projects and you don't seem to enjoy at least the discussions here on the forums?

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Now me and Burger were in a bad spot, I made a complaint about him he made a complaint about me and we moved on but for the sake of fairness and to avoid being accussed of holding a grudge I'll only raise issues I have encountered a month after the complaint when we have not spoken at all since like forever.


Now first off he's active, very progressive and a lot of changes he implemented were very useful and/or cool, sometimes both. I appreciate those changes.

Further on github he took my feedback with stride, taking what I said into consideration so I don't have an issue about that, he's been respectful and I haven't seen him salt in deadchat as much.

So what happened recently man?


Specifically I'll talk about the Dungeon thread in which you've replied to Kaed with, to quote;

"Then perhaps when the pr gets merged (it will) you can modify it to your liking :)"


I get that not all feedback is useful, but replying to someone like this seemingly evokes the idea that you actually do not give a fuck about feedback or addressing feedback and that the suggestion forum is just an annoying checkmark you'll ignore until Skull inevitably accepts your great idea.


And I get where this reply might have come from, Alberyk often replies with "do it urself :v)" on server in OOC or deadchat, but that's in-game, it's because he's trying to play a game and people keep bothering him with suggestions and ideas and reworks.

You said it on the suggestion forum! The exact place that SERVES for feedback, none of the coders ever replied with "do it urself" on the suggestion forum because that IS the place to ask for things to be done!

I won't give a +1 or a -1 you can gauge my feedback from the above, you're capable sure but as a developer has proven before there can be proper skill but there must also be a proper intent.

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Burger and I are not exactly good friends.


But his characters are amazing, and while I disagree with some of his development ideas - he is competent. +1

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I checked back to this thread because I wanted to say something that was still a bit relevant but Coalf kind of hits it on the head here.

 

I get that not all feedback is useful, but replying to someone like this seemingly evokes the idea that you actually do not give a fuck about feedback or addressing feedback and that the suggestion forum is just an annoying checkmark you'll ignore until Skull inevitably accepts your great idea.

 

I'm not sure whether Burger does care for feedback or not but, well, yeah. It's kind of the impression I see here. He has said before that he'd rather see "+1 i like this" rather than a few paragraphs of a negative response.

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I checked back to this thread because I wanted to say something that was still a bit relevant but Coalf kind of hits it on the head here.

 

I get that not all feedback is useful, but replying to someone like this seemingly evokes the idea that you actually do not give a fuck about feedback or addressing feedback and that the suggestion forum is just an annoying checkmark you'll ignore until Skull inevitably accepts your great idea.

 

I'm not sure whether Burger does care for feedback or not but, well, yeah. It's kind of the impression I see here. He has said before that he'd rather see "+1 i like this" rather than a few paragraphs of a negative response.

 

Don't know where on earth you're getting that from.


tbh for you nerds out there if someone other than me said that I said something It's likely wrong

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