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Senpai Jackboot

CampinKiller - Lying To CCIA As Loyalty Implanted HoS

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BYOND Key:Jackboot

Game ID: idk

Player Byond Key: whoever plays Marc Price

Staff involved: ben10083, I think they did the CCIA interview. Synnono, told me to make this complaint

Reason for complaint: Lied to CCIA in an interview (alledgedly) as a HoS, who are loyalty implanted.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? It was mentioned during the CCIA interview with my journalist who made the IR that Marc Price, who burnt a piece of evidence regarding alledged misconduct by one of his officers, said he "was not aware" of where the ash on the floor (from the burnt transcript) had come from. He either forgot or is being dishonest. I asked Synnono if this would be an OOC issue.

 

JackbootzmundiToday at 5:16 PM

In my ir against dawnguard and marc price the ccia said Price had "no idea" where the ash on the floor came from. It came from him burning a transcript i gave him about alledged sec abuse

Theres a pic

SynnonoToday at 5:17 PM

Our new blood has actively been asking questions about this case and he's very promising.

LBut.

If you are concerned about Loyalty-Implanted personnel refusing the restrictions of their implants, it is absolutely an OOC issue and you are expected to describe as much in your inevitable complaint thread.

JackbootzmundiToday at 5:20 PM

Okie dokie! Should i wait for a verdict?

SynnonoToday at 5:20 PM

If you're concerned about an OOC issue? No.

 

The IR is still active so there is no info CCIA can give me for what are obvious reasons, but hopefully an admin or mod can do more to figure this out. I find as someone with a loyalty implant, doing something like he did and then being so brazen as to allegedly lie to CCIA about it is not good. hope this is a misunderstanding


Approximate Date/Time: I dont know when they did their interview


https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?p=102803#p102803 the ir in question

Edited by Guest

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I poked campinkiller on discord about it. We will see what they say.

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I was interviewed as a Visitor. The loyalty implant is not active outside of work as that position. There really isn't much else to it.


Also, given that it happened after a serious incident (Za Bound), him forgetting about something that minor wouldn't even be shocking.

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I was interviewed as a Visitor. The loyalty implant is not active outside of work as that position. There really isn't much else to it.


Also, given that it happened after a serious incident (Za Bound), him forgetting about something that minor wouldn't even be shocking.

 

That's pretty bad faith. Using a technicality of being visitor to lie to CCIA to avoid owning up to the mean spirited and pretty unnecessary act of burning evidence in front of someone.


There's not more I think I have to say. Hopefully administration can see why this is behaving in bad faith.

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I was interviewed as a Visitor. The loyalty implant is not active outside of work as that position. There really isn't much else to it.


Also, given that it happened after a serious incident (Za Bound), him forgetting about something that minor wouldn't even be shocking.

 

That's pretty bad faith. Using a technicality of being visitor to lie to CCIA to avoid owning up to the mean spirited and pretty unnecessary act of burning evidence in front of someone.


There's not more I think I have to say. Hopefully administration can see why this is behaving in bad faith.

 

I'm not involved, so [mention]Garnascus[/mention] is welcome to remove this - but speaking as a former CCIA, our policy at the time was that those we interviewed were absolutely welcome to lie; but if this lie was discovered it would result in a very very serious punishment. Because CCIA's work is IC, characters are not obligated to be honest or provide everything they know as they would in a character complaint investigation. Characters simply need to deal with the consequences of their lying if its discovered.


This is not an opinion on this complaint or either party in it, but just a note from an individual that was once CCIA and has had people lie about them in IRs.

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I was interviewed as a Visitor. The loyalty implant is not active outside of work as that position. There really isn't much else to it.


Also, given that it happened after a serious incident (Za Bound), him forgetting about something that minor wouldn't even be shocking.

 


That's pretty bad faith. Using a technicality of being visitor to lie to CCIA to avoid owning up to the mean spirited and pretty unnecessary act of burning evidence in front of someone.


There's not more I think I have to say. Hopefully administration can see why this is behaving in bad faith.

 

Oh, give me a break. It’s not a technicality, it’s the truth of the matter. You already harassed my character enough IC’ly (for whatever reason), and now because he has (allegedly) been dishonest, you want something done OOC’ly? When did I piss in your cereal?

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I was interviewed as a Visitor. The loyalty implant is not active outside of work as that position. There really isn't much else to it.


Also, given that it happened after a serious incident (Za Bound), him forgetting about something that minor wouldn't even be shocking.

 


That's pretty bad faith. Using a technicality of being visitor to lie to CCIA to avoid owning up to the mean spirited and pretty unnecessary act of burning evidence in front of someone.


There's not more I think I have to say. Hopefully administration can see why this is behaving in bad faith.

 

Oh, give me a break. It’s not a technicality, it’s the truth of the matter. You already harassed my character enough IC’ly (for whatever reason), and now because he has (allegedly) been dishonest, you want something done OOC’ly? When did I piss in your cereal?

 

You havent been harrassed. And even if you felt targetted, lying to ccia is bad faith. You should have made a complaint if you felt i was harrassing you(???) All you had to do was ignore the complaint about sec misconduct. You intentionally went the extra mile as a power move and as a HoS are lying to ccia to escape consequences. Ooc issue to me. Not good command play. Bad faith.

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You know what else isn’t good command play? Threatening to shoot the HoS during a code red. But, I digress.


Allegedly lying to CCIA is not bad command play. It wasn’t even command play. If you have that much of a hard on to get something done to me or my character over something incredibly minor, then I don’t know what to tell you. There’s nothing else to say beyond the fact that it wasn’t done with an LI, so if I (allegedly) lied, it wouldn’t matter.


On that note, people lie to their bosses all the time. You are blowing something completely meaningless that was started by one of your annoying, and frankly “looking for a fight” characters

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I feel as though the IR was weaponized by Jackboot as no OOC outcome could be brought against Campin for his actions. That's what it seems like to me, given his OOC investment in the whole situation.


edit: On this, he had ahelp'd the original arrest and seizure of his property, forcing me to deal with a very extensive interrorgation, which took up time away from processing him, which was further hampered by power outages. Rather than taking into consideration his own ahelp's affect on my timing performance, he got more exasperated by it, and made a point of it being 20 minutes in his IR. I recieved no known OOC penalties for what I had done, to my knowledge.

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he had ahelp'd the original arrest and seizure of his property, forcing me to deal with a very extensive interrorgation, which took up time away from processing him, which was further hampered by power outages. Rather than taking into consideration his own ahelp's affect on my timing performance, he got more exasperated by it, and made a point of it being 20 minutes in his IR. I recieved no known OOC penalties for what I had done, to my knowledge.

 

The argument within the IR is your original arrest and the method of the arrest. Holding time was a minor concern given the context of the ahelp. I addressed the ahelp. Youre grasping at straws. And this isnt about you or dawnguard.


Me making a poor call does not justify bad behavior from marc price wherin he lies as a member of command to escape being reprimanded for his action. If i punch another kid on the playground, you are not allowed to start swinging when you see it happen, then lie about it. Marc Price the character is either lying to CCIA because he's corrupt, or he's lying because campinkiller does not want to be punished for the action.


His hos burnt a complaint on a security officer in front of the complainee. Hello????


The IR being weaponized would be true only if i attempted to extort something out of any party involved under threat of ir. I never asked for anything. I just went straight to complaining.


Thank you for your perspective.

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My journalist is not a command character and the incident was not done during code red. Not sure what youre talking about.

 


A different incident where, according to others, your HoP threatened to shoot Price.


Moving on from that, this complaint seems like some assinine attempt to get me punished for nothing. What I feel like happened is that there was a lack of evidence, and now you’re going after me personally for no reason, other than I allegedly wronged one of your many annoying, edgy characters, who couldn’t take being charged with a breach of regulations. This reeks of you trying to influence a CCIA decision. It reeks of breaking the rule about “don’t be a dick.” It’s idiotic.


And don’t go on about my character being corrupt because of an (alleged) lie. That is absolutely rich coming from someone who’s head of personnel was actively suggesting to shoot him during a canon round. Maybe, for once, you can sit down and accept that not everything will go your way. Get over it. There was no violation of any rule by (allegedly) lying to CCIA when not loyalty implanted.

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Posting in here at Garn's request.


To clarify on how we've handled LIs in the past, if the character is not working, we generally assume that the loyalty implant is not functioning. Following this thinking, Campin would have been able to play a disingenuous character if they had joined as a visitor without violating any of our policies or some sort of OOC trust. This interpretation may change at some point, but that's more of a team discussion with CCIA and admins.


Xander is also correct in that it's currently our policy to "allow" dishonest behavior from characters, and that the consequences for lying are typically severe. In most cases, this is a very bad idea for the involved character, since witnesses and logs tend to easily highlight inconsistencies. Dishonesty was brought up as a possibility on our side even before Jackboot became aware of the information that led to this complaint.


I see the decision to lie as an IC concern, but the discussion about the function of loyalty implants in the roleplay and the intentions of the players involved seem to be OOC concerns, which is why I encouraged a complaint.

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Gonna discuss this internally with staff to decide if we want to implement new policy or not. As i understand it CCIA do not feel it affects issues enough to matter. Lies are generally very easy to to discern in investigations. I personally believe we have higher expectations of actions under the influence of a loyalty implant. Perhaps we should have the same expectation when a HoS/Captain is being interviewed. The easiest way would be to wave a magic wand and assume loyalty implants are turned on during the interview. so that whatever is acceptable in one situation it is also acceptable in the other.


We will need some time to hash this out.

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Spent a whole lot of time hashing out a potential policy change from this. The TLDR here is that things are going to remain the same. CCIA do not want visitors to have their implants turned on. They feel its very very easy to catch someone in a lie and then BTFO them. As is exactly what happened to price unfortunately. There is always the possibility that this could become a serious issue but as it stands right now its not a big enough one for me to force it on CCIA.


Nobody was punished OOC for this complaint. It was valid for Camp to do IC.


Thread will be locked and archived in 24 hours.

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Even if the implant is not active during the interview you'd think that the interviewee would be compelled to fax central or some such next time it turns on.

 

think2.png

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