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BurgerBB

BurgerBB's Developer Application

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Ckey/BYOND Username: BurgerBB


Position Being Applied For Code Developer


Past Experiences/Knowledge:

Various code, workplace ethic related university courses, 1 year byond experience, 10 years gmod lua experience.


Examples of Past Work:

Several bug fixes regarding my code and older code.

Thirst Mechanics which have yet to be implemented.

Battle Monsters which is being actively maintained.

Custom Kinetic Accelerators and several additions to it.

Random Asteroid Dungeons.

Massive changes to the map that are universally regarded to be improvements to the areas, such as:

  • Hydroponics
  • The Shuttle
  • the Bar
  • The Kitchen
  • Cargo
  • Mining
  • Xenobiology
  • And soon to be disposals.

Changes to reagent code which, once again, are universally regarded to be improvements.

Fire extinguishers improvements.

Inhalers.

Literally going through all the code and properly converting .loc to forceMove.

Fixing a tail layering bug that existed for forever.

Adding random produce to chef food.

Adding the ability to rename food.

Smoking pipe/cigarette improvements.

Stacking machine fixes/improvements.

Mental Medication

Lotto Ticket changes

Scrubber changes

Dionaea changes

Chainsaws

K'ois nerfs

Biogenerator improvements

Arcade machine improvements

Chips and dip


Preferred Mode of Communication (Skype, Steam, etc.): Discord (Burger#3948)


Additional Comments: Rescinded my previous application because I did not have the temperment to deal with developer. I severely underestimated myself and the issues prevailent at the time, and due to several changes in how I approach things, as well as changes that the community has went through, I'm submitting another application.

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I don't ever necessarily get along with Burger. I don't necessarily enjoy what they code in some cases. But that doesn't mean they're not a competent coder, or someone I extremely dislike.


I don't really have an issue with him being a Developer, so long as it doesn't simply allow them to pass things into the game without a moderated portion somewhere to double check it. Which, I think that's the case with Github that it's all checked before implementation anyway, so I'm all for it.

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I've had no issues with Burger, even though their PRs have been controversial. In my case at least, that has been a good thing as it got me interested in the entire process of how things are added to the game and github in general. They care, and I've no doubt that becoming a developer will only increase the quality of the community, and Burger's contributions as a whole.

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I'm not averse to Burger rejoining the Staff team, as they seem to have improved on their conduct.

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So we all heard about drama happening. But I was never involved into any of drama Burger was, so that makes me not taking any of the sides of the drama. I did though watched some of it, so I am kinda aware of it.


Positive things:

  • I loved your KA update so much, it was amazing.
  • You fix your own bugs(which should be norm for all devs)
  • You fix other bugs
  • You spot problems while playing game and want to improve things.

 

Negative things:

  • I did not like Burrito Wars which seemed like a lots of effort spent to add something small.
  • You get sometimes "triggered" which I understand, I used to do same thing and talking with other developers it seems like almost every developer and staff member went through this phase.

 

The conclusion is that I mostly see positive things about Burger. To burger, I want you to understand that sometimes when you are fighting either maintainers or community on some thing and it doesn't seem like they agree with you, don't try to plow through it. I tried that method and it doesn't work, in the end decisions are finalized by Skull and now Arrow.


I agree to put Burger on trial again.

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A concern I have is how you react rule violations when made against you. In the case of your present forum ban, you decided to report the post and then proceed to break the same rules. I’m not sure what good a developer can be if they’re permanently banned from the forums, which might be the case if the behavior continues.

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I believe I already discussed that answer with you already, however I find it incredibly unlikely that I will actually get further bans, let alone permabanned.

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I still feel like the most recent fight I’ve seen burger get into was a discord argument just two days ago. Staff should be constructive and cooperative and, to a certain degree, mature. I think burger has the technical skills to do a lot for the server, really. I don’t agree with their direction very often but codewise, from what I understand, it’s sound, and they’ve done a couple of cool things.


But I don’t think burger is there yet in terms of being able to accept criticism and empathize/communicate with the community, which is absolutely crucial for staff to be able to do.

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I do not have an issue with this application as I did with the previous application. I'm chalking up the majority of my confrontations with Burger as a misunderstanding of his intentions and an assumption of his character that was more than a little unfair of me to be doing, which otherwise contributed to a toxic atmosphere rather than helping defend said atmosphere from toxicity. It's obvious a lot of the drama that was created had fault to go around, and not just on any one person. Toxicity begets a defensive response which 'justifies' the toxicity, and sometimes makes things much worse than they needed to be. Little cautionary tale; don't repeat what I said or did to do by yourself in treating other people behaviorally.


I do not often agree with Burger's methods in changing certain features (such as the infamous 'lunchboxes are metagaming' meme which was only addressed literally rather than the meta context it was meant to be addressed as), but acting hostile and unbecoming to a developer attempting to enact controversial changes is the exact opposite of how things should be done, which I see now.


I would encourage other people (i.e., this lovely community that always addresses issues in an appropriate, tactful fashion like the rest of us do) to consider opening a direct line of conversation to the developer responsible for a controversial change up that might change your way of play, Burger included. If you are willing to let personal misgivings about a developer get in the way of opening a line of discussion with a developer that wishes to change a part of the game that you don't happen to like so much in terms of its implementation, then there's an easy way to explain that: You care more about your own dramatic principles than you do of this server's development. Being communicative is more important than holding a grudge. Don't do as I did.


Things have certainly changed now and Burger has definitely adopted a much cooler head in the face of adversity, and hopefully so have I considering my cases of mistreatment of Burger. I endorse this app.


Also, I'm not attempting to change anyone's opinion by saying this. I'm stating my opinion only. I'm not saying this to change anyone's mind. nope my judgement proves to be wrong again.

Edited by Guest

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Burger's a good boy and his contributions are largely great. He's a feisty scamp but I think he can be reasonable when need be. +1

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Burger does a good job at contributing, and although some think he is bad just due to 1 or 2 bad contributes food update, overall we must understand that no-one is perfect, and if every developer/contributor did their job perfectly we would not have a bug report form. Overall, I say give him a chance and let us see how he will fare. +1

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This, taken today, is exactly why I do not believe Burger is ready to have any additional responsibility on this server.

 

05.png.a15fc16f0879cff59db8fcc2370046d8.png

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A ton of context is missing behind that image but I can understand why you're upset. When people joke around about the reasons why I added something, ofc I'm going to joke around as well, hence the phrase "huge fucking boners".

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This, taken today, is exactly why I do not believe Burger is ready to have any additional responsibility on this server.


05.png

 

I think it's impressive that you link something without precious context pertaining to it and trying to dress it up as something really bad.


This community's fantastically understanding.

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I've learned from polls done that forum is not the absolute voice of the community, and this should never be used as an argument.

 

While this is a feedback, I want to say this here while I have your attention. This is not an acceptable answer and gives us the wrong impression. The impression I see is that you are trying to steer around a barrier and not tackle it by outright ignoring people because they are not the "voice" is never a good answer. In other words, you are cutting other people and attempting to shut down a conversation so you can have it your way. It makes me want to get on the bandwagon and -1 your application without reading the whole thread because you closed off people's communication. No one likes having their say thrown out of the window. I know for a fact that United States of America's Constitution regarding free of speech do not apply to Aurora Station although everyone has the privilege to say how they feel about the topic. I know you mean well and trying to be supportive for the community but you have to be careful for what you say as a staff member/developer. You can go nuts for all I care on discord or shittposting thread but keep in mind what happened between you and Jackboot, that was the turning point of your last application progress.


Moving on, from a business perspective, the server is a business. The players are the cash flow. Ideas/Pull Requests, Projects are the products of the business. If players likes the product, they will go to the business and buy them. If they do not like it, they do not go to the business and buy them. They'd rather go to a different business and buy their stuff. It's a pretty simple marketing strategy.


Polls do not provide freeform communication rather are more susceptible to sampling bias depending on what the question is asking and the answers available selected below than forums. Oh yes, there will be people being picky for whatever reasons they bring up in the future. I want to be honest and direct with you to improve on your developer application, your communication with the community is far too aggressive. You should at least talk with some of strong known community members (Schev, Amory, Trazz, Alberyk, Jackboot, Menown, Chada, Doxx, Synnono, Skull, Aboshehab, Garn, Arrow, and so many more), get their opinions on the matter. You could also look at the suggestion and see what players truly want.


I hope my feedback has been very constructive, understanding, and is neutral.


EDIT: Perhaps you can restart and provide us the impression you were intending on to make to us?

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I've learned from polls done that forum is not the absolute voice of the community, and this should never be used as an argument.

 

While this is a feedback, I want to say this here while I have your attention. This is not an acceptable answer and gives us the wrong impression. The impression I see is that you are trying to steer around a barrier and not tackle it by outright ignoring people because they are not the "voice" is never a good answer. In other words, you are cutting other people and attempting to shut down a conversation so you can have it your way. It makes me want to get on the bandwagon and -1 your application without reading the whole thread because you closed off people's communication. No one likes having their say thrown out of the window. I know for a fact that United States of America's Constitution regarding free of speech do not apply to Aurora Station although everyone has the privilege to say how they feel about the topic. I know you mean well and trying to be supportive for the community but you have to be careful for what you say as a staff member/developer. You can go nuts for all I care on discord or shittposting thread but keep in mind what happened between you and Jackboot, that was the turning point of your last application progress.


Moving on, from a business perspective, the server is a business. The players are the cash flow. Ideas/Pull Requests, Projects are the products of the business. If players likes the product, they will go to the business and buy them. If they do not like it, they do not go to the business and buy them. They'd rather go to a different business and buy their stuff. It's a pretty simple marketing strategy.


Polls do not provide freeform communication rather are more susceptible to sampling bias depending on what the question is asking and the answers available selected below than forums. Oh yes, there will be people being picky for whatever reasons they bring up in the future. I want to be honest and direct with you to improve on your developer application, your communication with the community is far too aggressive. You should at least talk with some of strong known community members (Schev, Amory, Trazz, Alberyk, Jackboot, Menown, Chada, Doxx, Synnono, Skull, Aboshehab, Garn, Arrow, and so many more), get their opinions on the matter. You could also look at the suggestion and see what players truly want.


I hope my feedback has been very constructive, understanding, and is neutral.


EDIT: Perhaps you can restart and provide us the impression you were intending on to make to us?

 

Right. People are getting the impression that just because I don't agree with the feedback given, it means that I'm ignoring them and their feedback is useless. The beauty that in reality, you're not forced to accept criticism. You consider the criticism given and respond to it, which i always do unless the criticism itself is inflammatory. I respond to criticism as much as I kind, and I can tell you that is depresses me that just because despite putting in effort out of my day to write up a paragraph or two responding to their criticism, it means that I'm ignoring them.


Just because I don't agree with your criticism, doesn't mean I am ignoring it. All criticism is given, taken into consideration, and then applied to the PR if I feel it benefits the PR. I only care about the opinion presented and not the user, which is why you sometimes see me respond to a handful of people with different points so I don't repeat myself. When measuring an opinion, I care very little for how many people are saying it because it has been proven time and time again that just because a majority agrees with something, doesn't mean it's right. It's also logical fallacy, seen here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum.


I don't think I would be putting out very good PRs if I followed the feedback of only 4-5 people who post on the forums as opposed to people who actually play the game. To avoid this, you can see me sometimes proposing projects in OOC as not everyone has a forum account and I wish to hear their opinion on the matter. Hell, every PR cycle, I ghost for the first devmerge round to listen to the feedback in ghost chat in OOC.

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This is an answer I like to see better, it portrays your thought process to us. I hope everyone can understand [mention]BurgerBB[/mention] better from this response to my feedback. Now, this will seem as a contradictory statement to people on what I've said. A poll and discussion on the server is a good way to receive and collect everyone's opinions better than forums. Although, Burger takes a risk by going on a specific time frame to ask people questions. These time frame may be during dead round where there's hardly anyone nearby on or active and ask them. I believe this is an acceptable risk measure that we can take as long as Burger is persistent. Suppose a poll provides 50-60 recipients for the project while 5-10 against the project. Forums will most likely include these people against the project. Basically, 60 people against 10 people, democracy wins and little things may be modified to satisfy the minority or at least form a common middle ground. Reality's tough. Life's unfair. As Space Station 13 always have said, "Man up, deal with it, and move on."


 

Now that I've expressed my opinions and received well constructive response, I am willingly to

+1 Burger to be an official Developer for Aurora Station. I like the answer and I know where Burger's loyalty directly lies to. I'd like to thank Burger taking his time out of his busy life to actually answer this question.

 

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I know I am late for this, but I do have concerns. Please note that I do not wish to start anything by this nor mean any harm. I simply want this addressed and know if there have been any changes regarding it. I hold no grudges nor do I wish to, I only want an understanding.


For a little background, when I was accepted as Dionae Loredev there was quite a bit of understandable frustration. I came to Burger and asked if they would like to give coding help because they did good work from what I knew and they worked hard to try and get the position I earned, so why not aim for the next best thing in their contributions to Dionae? As far as I could tell, we worked well together. They made a PR that I discussed with them, then I made a PR with them, excited with making beneficial changes for the community while not entirely knowing how the process of PRs actually work. Burger came through and did the work without so much as an objection and I deeply appreciated his efforts, but it ended up in being the second worst PR on Aurora's Github ever- entirely my fault. That was more or less immediately after I've become a loredev, and after I closed the PR, I ended up getting worried pings from other players of Burger being snide/spiteful/passive-aggressive about not being a loredev as well as of me and my work when I'm not around and generally being a poor sport.

dreamseeker_2018-04-25_22-57-02.png

 



That stung a bit. Sure, everyone's entitled to their own opinion. People can be unhappy, as there's no way to please every single person. So I put my apprehension aside and after a while of letting thing simmer down and allow myself to learn more about exactly how to go about my position more in the way of making PRs and the like should go, I once more approached Burger with a different and what I believed to be a more reasonable request, desperate for help.

5cf6381efbde6ab9599cf75a189e25d6.png

 



Now, through this time, I noticed there was still resentment towards me and the way of how I was handling the species, still receiving worried pings from other players about accusations. Feeling a little off about his answer, I decided to ask what was up.

277b704d6009a6c6fde5f04c175df66e.png

 



Seemed reasonable enough, and I felt horrible for accusing him. There's language from me and I apologize for viewers, like I said I was desperate for help. Burger elaborated a bit more,

 

953bb084c5fcd50b52b9219a575ff192.png

 


And I went on my way.




Nothing out of the ordinary, right? I decided to come back later with the same request, still short on help and to see if he was free at all, hopeful.

 

78a106df6ab4bfe3c3a9265e7d3e1f71.png

 



Now during this time, I think I made the request during Burger's first Dev application. Now, devs are supposed to help loredevs with important projects, right? So my reasoning was "if he helps me with something this important, it would not only help me out but also allow me to give him major kudos and be a gold star on his application".

 

47136c15e40c02e582878ad29106af4d.png

 



Should devs even specialize in "tweaks" despite having done otherwise? (I apologize if that is not the case, I have just determined that developers in general should be somewhat proficient in all areas enough to help.) They're skilled enough and proved themselves before, praised by others in their previous application that they later withdrew from due to drama, which is understandable. But I let it go and come forth with telling Burger that y request was in fact, tweaks. I get this in return:

 

dd11cd3a03c4b2d5c20362c3e042d0af.png

 






I personally feel overall reluctant about this application. Due to their spiteful passive-aggressive behavior, denial of assisting a lore developer who needed help, prioritizing of "the good of the one over the good of the many" (I understand that everyone here is a volunteer and have the right to pursue their own projects, but I don't think that's right to pursue them so aggressively when there's other things that need to be handled that affect players more), and overall feeling like they were making themselves unapproachable, I feel uncomfortable with the application and give this a -1.




I do encourage a discussion with you Burger to see if we can get things smoothed out here and now as I would have no problem with giving a +1 were you more willing to help the staff overall this year instead of what feels like hold a grudge against specific individuals that interferes with your work (not liking someone is absolutely fine as long as you can put it aside to do work), but until then I'm afraid my decision remains. If I as a lore developer cannot rely on a code developer for assistance with something important as a staff team and put aside differences to better the experience for the community, then what is even the point? I hope you understand.




And please for the love of God, report bad whitelistees when you see one, thank you! That goes for everyone ;_;

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a bunch of things

Coders are not obligated to code for you. You need to learn to code yourself, this post sounded very entitled. Also, most of that was completely unrelated to Burger's application.

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a bunch of things

Coders are not obligated to code for you. You need to learn to code yourself, this post sounded very entitled. Also, most of that was completely unrelated to Burger's application.

 

I do not have the time of day to code for myself, and I didn't mean to make it sound entitled in the slightest. Burger is essentially applying to be staff. I thought the entire premise of staff was to be there for the community and to work with other staff, and felt that the previous behavior that I experienced conflicted with that. My biggest problem is being able to work as a team. If this was something small like someone wanting to be able to fill a fire extinguisher with confetti and it was denied, that's understandable. But I need a bit of help that was hard to find from talented individuals for an entire species' mechanics because I am unable to do so myself- never in the loredev applications was it stated that it was a necessity to know how to code. I would be fine if it was instead stated the why with an outright "I simply feel uncomfortable working with you", I may be more okay with it. But instead what I experience is avoidance, passive-aggression, and spite. What happens if that's displayed to other staff members?


If I am still completely wrong to bring this up then I will delete my posts, but I feel that this is a valid concern of mine, which is overall about teamwork and communication which I provided examples to.

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And please note, I was actually encouraged to bring this up in the previous application by others but never got around to doing so because I decided to go with a benefit of a doubt. I'm not going to be idle anymore in these things when I'm told to discuss these things and bring it up now to know if anything has changed and if we can in fact work as a team and communicate.

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At the time when you asked me to do code for you, I don't even think I was a trial dev. At that time I had a lot of PRs to write, including major overhauls of mechanics, such as mental medication or fire extinguishers, something like that. This is currently what's on my plate now:



27Izab5.png



Generally I never take suggestions. Sometimes I take suggestions if I feel incredibly motivated, but none of the ideas you presented to me really motivated me to drop everything and get right to it. Reminder that I am unpaid and everything I do is volunteer related so when I'm not staff, or even a trial dev, I'm not going to code something I don't feel motivated coding especially when I have other projects that need attending to, and I feel, aren't important enough to spend time on. Unless I'm being paid real cash money, motivation is the currency in which you pay me in.


Also life advice. If someone is going up to you and telling you that I'm talking shit about dionaea lore and the state of it, then maybe you need to consider that perhaps the people who are bringing it to your attention are doing so maliciously especially when the screenshot you posted was taken out of context and does not mean what you think it means.

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Before going further into this post, let it be known I don't hate burger or have anything against them However with Neinbox's posts I thought I should share some past interactions with burger.

 

pfzPefp.jpg

 

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To clarify context before this, we had been meming in discord with [mention]ParadoxSpace[/mention] and Voltage and trazz about I think replacing the Zorah soda with Booty Juice (Which is a tropic thunder meme) and sure can be seen as annoying or not funny.


Now sure, Burger is under no obligation to help teach anybody to code or be there tutor, however as a developer you are and should be considered to keep yourself at the same standard as staff, which entails being able to keep a sense of coolness in a situation you may dislike and sure the situation was annoying, however the issue I had was, Burger went from expressing his annoyance at me for in the past asking him questions, some even about bug requests he made to further help him get these resolved and he has no issue replying to these, to him making a complaint directed towards me for "being too annoying and messaging me", which to the benefit of the doubt he deleted to how dumb it really was. However to my next point, as a developer if you create a system for others to work and build off such as your dungeon PR, it should be atleast expected to help others further work forwards, and however at the time I had you blocked after the last issue for my own sake, I was told to ask you in the code channel which I did, the the same attitude was given

 

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However again, Not bashing you really for this, however I think it should be made as a observation by yourself to improve from in the future. To move onto my final two points, another behavior that concerns me is: When you are upset with how something goes in a round that you dislike, it seems you make a PR to change or remove this aspect, that or you base it from your personal dislike of a issue and I think [mention]Coalf[/mention] described it very well in his post on the parapen thread

 

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However my last issue and I will give you credit that you have improved but, learning conflict resolution skills I think would suit you for this position to make it easier on yourself, I have personaly noticed insitance where you or another player makes a comment in looc or on the forums and it ensnares you into a argument with said person, not going to post the examples but I assume you know who these people are.


With all of this said, im staying neutral for the time being. I rarely see burger ingame anymore and would like to be able to view ow he interacts with others, as you are a fantastic coder, however I believe you can work on your relations and people skills with others before you are placed into full developer. Should I see this improvement, I will gladly support this fully.

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