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IAmCrystalClear

Player Complaint - TheOrleans

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BYOND Key: iamcrystalclear

Game ID: bXs-amwh

Player Byond Key: [mention]TheOrleans[/mention]

Staff involved: No

Reason for complaint: It's hard to explain: a mix between powergaming, needless killing, and being a general dick.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No, we couldn't place a ruling on it at the time.

Approximate Date/Time: 2:40-3:40am GMT 22/11/2018


It all started with my vampire gimmick being a small chamber in which I held captives for feeding. I was trying to provide enough RP for them to stay interesting, while still furthering my antag goals.

About twenty minutes into this, the player in question arrives outside my chamber unknowingly, I notice them down another player and as such I offer to let them use my chamber. Some time passes and the player in question leaves, coming back shortly after with another victim, who has been dominated in such a way that they are not allowed to utter a single word for the rest of the shift. The player in question repeatedly bites the victims despite my protests, and sends two of them into a state of unconsciousness for roughly half an hour, one of which dies because of it. At this point, the room is so filled that I ask them to leave, and to leave my farm alone, when another player arrives, who they dominate, bring into the room, subdue, and then the player struggles, so they wordlessly thrall them. Shortly after this they continue to drain the players until they reach max strength, where they repeatedly demand we release all the victims, enthralling them and taking over the station, which i say no with the wisdom that several players present do not WANT to be thralls. They then decide to retaliate by repeatedly stunning everyone in the room, dominating me to prevent me from struggling, and then draining me to death. They then proceed to start mass-turning everyone present, running when security arrives, going straight to the armoury screaming "I'm innocent it was her it was her", and gearing up with lethals and attempting to murder every sec officer present, and ioning a borg to an inch of it's life. Before this they'd also meleed a borg to a point that they became blind, and unable to save the lives of further crew.


People involved in this mess were: [mention]FreshRefreshments[/mention][mention]mwhit030[/mention][mention]Rosetango[/mention][mention]Iron Chaos[/mention][mention]ComradeCorbyn[/mention][mention]Yonnimer[/mention] (was observing)

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This sounds a lot like a cult round I was in recently.


Holed up in engineering, he comes dumping about after the captain had called all security hostile (He was security himself). I tell him to fuck off repeatedly, and axed him in the arm as a warning. Then he ahelps about improper escalation, over a lovetap to a prosthetic after being warned repeatedly to get lost.


Despite my objections, he's allowed to stay. But at some point shortly after, he slinks off screen, summons his cult gear, and he literally comes sprinting back with his sword+flash drawn before decapitating/maiming all of engineering without a damn word.


He cried about improper escalation, yet he's able to rationalize that dead silent murderbone rush was fine when he was swinging the sword.

That there is some hypocritical bullshit, and I think this complaint should be a big push for some self-reflection into how one plays antag. Its about making the round fun for everyone, not just oneself.

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It is hard to read a complaint that is SO FULL OF LIES, really, your complaint is a huge lie itself, and let me tell you that you are being quite hypocrite. Please, don't take ''hypocrite'' as an offence from now on, definition: person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, especially a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.


I will start by quoting all the lies you are stating, and then I will continue to explain what happened (from my point of view). I will add a number next to each thing I mark so I can answer it easily.

 

It all started with my vampire gimmick being a small chamber in which I held captives for feeding. I was trying to provide enough RP for them to stay interesting, while still furthering my antag goals.(0)

About twenty minutes into this, the player in question arrives outside my chamber unknowingly, I notice them down another player and as such I offer to let them use my chamber. Some time passes and the player in question leaves, coming back shortly after with another victim, who has been dominated in such a way that they are not allowed to utter a single word for the rest of the shift (1). The player in question repeatedly bites the victims despite my protests, and sends two of them into a state of unconsciousness for roughly half an hour, one of which dies because of it. At this point, the room is so filled that I ask them to leave, and to leave my farm alone(2), when another player arrives, who they dominate, bring into the room, subdue, and then the player struggles, so they wordlessly thrall them(3). Shortly after this they continue to drain the players until they reach max strength, where they repeatedly demand we release all the victims, enthralling them and taking over the station(4), which i say no with the wisdom that several players present do not WANT to be thralls(5). They then decide to retaliate by repeatedly stunning everyone in the room, dominating me to prevent me from struggling, and then draining me to death. They then proceed to start mass-turning everyone present(6), running when security arrives, going straight to the armoury screaming "I'm innocent it was her it was her", and gearing up with lethals and attempting to murder every sec officer present(, and ioning a borg to an inch of it's life(7). Before this they'd also meleed a borg to a point that they became blind, and unable to save the lives of further crew.(8)


People involved in this mess were: @FreshRefreshments @mwhit030 @Rosetango @Iron Chaos @ComradeCorbyn @Yonnimer (was observing)

 

0 - First of all, you will be accusing me of ''being a dick'' while you had 2 players buckled to a chair for a whole round. Did you ask them if they wanted to be part of a farm?


1 - In this part you are talking about Kat Ly. This is the first huge lie of yours. I ordered her with the dominate to turn off her suit sensors and to follow me to Maint, and that's when you saw me an invited me to make Ly part of your farm. I said I was going to enthrall her and you said ''Don't, thrall is lame''. And then YOU enthralled her (Ly complained about this in LOOC, about how hypocrite was to tell me not to enthrall her and then you did it.) Actually, Ly was the first person I embraced, to release her from being your thrall, IC reasons and everything. End of round, Ly was going to kill me to release Harper from being my thrall (I will speak about this later), so, no, she wasn't ''dominated in such a way that she was not able to utter a single word'', in the end, she nearly killed me. First lie.


2 - It did not happen like that. I told you to release them before, and when you told me that you were not going to do it, I decided to feed upon them so I could become stronger and then release them, that was my plan from the very first moment. You told me to leave because I did not agree with the farm idea. Second lie.


3 - Now you are speaking about Harper. I did not dominate Harper, I hypnotized her and brought her into the room, stripping her (but leaving her jumpsuit untouched). And buckled her to a chair. We didn't have any way to restrain her so she just unbuckled and started attacking me. Without talking. And yeah, since she did that, I enthralled her as a way to control her. However, you are a huge hypocrite, since you did the same thing (with the same reason) with Ly before, and you are accusing me now. This complaint...


4 - I requested to release the victims WAY BEFORE reaching the last stage as vampire, and in fact, I continued feeding so I could force you to release them. And I didn't mention ''enthralling them'', in fact, I wanted to EMBRACE them and release them. I didn't want to ''rule the station'', I wanted to embrace the players who were buckled to chairs for the whole round so they could be free or even fight you back for what you did to them.


5 - First, it is not compulsory to ask before enthralling. Second, as I said before I wanted to embrace them, not enthrall them. And third, you had them buckled to a chair for a whole round, did they want that? Did you ask in LOOC or something? ... I can't stop thinking about how can someone be this hypocrite.


6 - Okay, this is just a huge lie. I only embraced, during the whole round, 3 players. First, Ly, and it happened way before this. And the other two embracements happened at this moment, however, you are saying ''mass-embracement'', while that's not possible (it takes around 40 seconds to embrace someone), and second, before embracing the two players (Darius and the other one I can't remember) I gave a speech about ruling and being ruled, and they both were excited and wanted to rule and become stronger (so there you have the consent you were asking for)


7 - I got into the armory to grab stuff to defend myself, and most importantly, to avoid the Officers from getting the weapons. Albert, the borg, came in and started firing his tazer against me, so I shot the ion rifle, then the AI opened the armory shutters, and all the officers came in shooting at me, so I defended myself. Nice lie here, stating it in such a way it seems I was the one who started attacking instead of defending myself.


8 - The borg (B-4 I think) was blocking me by pushing me against a wall and not letting me do anything. I'm an antag, it happens.


So, as a summary:

-Your complaint is fully of lies, and, if there are doubts about this, I ask the adminship to check the logs (it will be hard due to all the things that happened, but please, if necessary, do it)

-Your complaint is full of you being an hypocrite, and accusing me of not having the OOC consent to enthrall (only from Harper) and not having OOC consent to embrace (two of the players were asked, the other was Ly, who was enthralled by YOU without asking her, so I was in fact releasing her)

-Remember that OOC consent is not needed to perform vamp actions (however, I asked everyone, except for Harper, who was hitting me all the time until I enthralled her).

-Harper, even enthralled, continued to betray me again and again, and again. Just in case @Rosetango comes around to say anything, remember that was an infraction.


I would also like to state my apologies to the female Tajara (can't remember name, sorr) who ended up dead. Although I was an antag and killing someone may happen, I didn't mean to, and in fact, I was going to release you without embracing/enthralling. It was a pitty you were unconscious when asked, and then you just died from the lack of blood.


And finally, the issue was not ahelped because, in all the context, the situation made sense, a lot of sense. We even had Yoni observing it. So the player making this complaint decided not to ahelp it, right.

Edited by Guest

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This sounds a lot like a cult round I was in recently.


Holed up in engineering, he comes dumping about after the captain had called all security hostile (He was security himself). I tell him to fuck off repeatedly, and axed him in the arm as a warning. Then he ahelps about improper escalation, over a lovetap to a prosthetic after being warned repeatedly to get lost.


Despite my objections, he's allowed to stay. But at some point shortly after, he slinks off screen, summons his cult gear, and he literally comes sprinting back with his sword+flash drawn before decapitating/maiming all of engineering without a damn word.


He cried about improper escalation, yet he's able to rationalize that dead silent murderbone rush was fine when he was swinging the sword.

That there is some hypocritical bullshit, and I think this complaint should be a big push for some self-reflection into how one plays antag. Its about making the round fun for everyone, not just oneself.

 

I am not going to answer this, since this is from a round that happened like one week before this one, it is not related, and no one made a complaint about it.


Thank you for coming though.

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0 - First of all, you will be accusing me of ''being a dick'' while you had 2 players buckled to a chair for a whole round. Did you ask them if they wanted to be part of a farm?


1 - In this part you are talking about Kat Ly. This is the first huge lie of yours. I ordered her with the dominate to turn off her suit sensors and to follow me to Maint, and that's when you saw me an invited me to make Ly part of your farm. I said I was going to enthrall her and you said ''Don't, thrall is lame''. And then YOU enthralled her (Ly complained about this in LOOC, about how hypocrite was to tell me not to enthrall her and then you did it.) Actually, Ly was the first person I embraced, to release her from being your thrall, IC reasons and everything. End of round, Ly was going to kill me to release Harper from being my thrall (I will speak about this later), so, no, she wasn't ''dominated in such a way that she was not able to utter a single word'', in the end, she nearly killed me. First lie.


2 - It did not happen like that. I told you to release them before, and when you told me that you were not going to do it, I decided to feed upon them so I could become stronger and then release them, that was my plan from the very first moment. You told me to leave because I did not agree with the farm idea. Second lie.


3 - Now you are speaking about Harper. I did not dominate Harper, I hypnotized her and brought her into the room, stripping her (but leaving her jumpsuit untouched). And buckled her to a chair. We didn't have any way to restrain her so she just unbuckled and started attacking me. Without talking. And yeah, since she did that, I enthralled her as a way to control her. However, you are a huge hypocrite, since you did the same thing (with the same reason) with Ly before, and you are accusing me now. This complaint...


4 - I requested to release the victims WAY BEFORE reaching the last stage as vampire, and in fact, I continued feeding so I could force you to release them. And I didn't mention ''enthralling them'', in fact, I wanted to EMBRACE them and release them. I didn't want to ''rule the station'', I wanted to embrace the players who were buckled to chairs for the whole round so they could be free or even fight you back for what you did to them.


5 - First, it is not compulsory to ask before enthralling. Second, as I said before I wanted to embrace them, not enthrall them. And third, you had them buckled to a chair for a whole round, did they want that? Did you ask in LOOC or something? ... I can't stop thinking about how can someone be this hypocrite.


6 - Okay, this is just a huge lie. I only embraced, during the whole round, 3 players. First, Ly, and it happened way before this. And the other two embracements happened at this moment, however, you are saying ''mass-embracement'', while that's not possible (it takes around 40 seconds to embrace someone), and second, before embracing the two players (Darius and the other one I can't remember) I gave a speech about ruling and being ruled, and they both were excited and wanted to rule and become stronger (so there you have the consent you were asking for)


7 - I got into the armory to grab stuff to defend myself, and most importantly, to avoid the Officers from getting the weapons. Albert, the borg, came in and started firing his tazer against me, so I shot the ion rifle, then the AI opened the armory shutters, and all the officers came in shooting at me, so I defended myself. Nice lie here, stating it in such a way it seems I was the one who started attacking instead of defending myself.


8 - The borg (B-4 I think) was blocking me by pushing me against a wall and not letting me do anything. I'm an antag, it happens.


So, as a summary:

-Your complaint is fully of lies, and, if there are doubts about this, I ask the adminship to check the logs (it will be hard due to all the things that happened, but please, if necessary, do it)

-Your complaint is full of you being an hypocrite, and accusing me of not having the OOC consent to enthrall (only from Harper) and not having OOC consent to embrace (two of the players were asked, the other was Ly, who was enthralled by YOU without asking her, so I was in fact releasing her)

-Remember that OOC consent is not needed to perform vamp actions (however, I asked everyone, except for Harper, who was hitting me all the time until I enthralled her).

-Harper, even enthralled, continued to betray me again and again, and again. Just in case @Rosetango comes around to say anything, remember that was an infraction.


I would also like to state my apologies to the female Tajara (can't remember name, sorr) who ended up dead. Although I was an antag and killing someone may happen, I didn't mean to, and in fact, I was going to release you without embracing/enthralling. It was a pitty you were unconscious when asked, and then you just died from the lack of blood.


And finally, the issue was not ahelped because, in all the context, the situation made sense, a lot of sense. We even had Yoni observing it. So the player making this complaint decided not to ahelp it, right.

 

0 - Both victims came in willingly, and seemed to be enjoying it until you knocked one out and the other was totally ignored due to the fact you were constantly beating on everyone.


1 - In this part I was talking about the Tajara, who's name I forget. I repeatedly tried to talk to them and they repeatedly made it clear they were not allowed to talk. They later died after being knocked out from you draining them.


2 - You never uttered a word of releasing them, instead randomly calling me insane shortly after, and even brought more victims IN to the room after I told you to leave.


3 - Didn't see HOW you made them come into the room, but I told Harper to leave so that she wouldn't get involved in the mess that was quite insane at this point. Either way you stripped them, and [mention]Rosetango[/mention], the player of this character, even suggested I make this complaint.


4 - I here quote "Aimee, why don't we make them like us?" to which I replied "No, that just means Aimee has to fight more people." which happened RIGHT at the start when we simply had three. If you wanted to release them, why did you leave them unconscious on the floor after I was contacted by Yoni suggesting to release them and tried to do so; you attacked me when I tried.


5 - If someone does not want to be a thrall, that is their choice. You should respect that, certain people don't like playing antags and would rather be buckled to a chair with their own free will than a slave to some ganking dick. Don't take the gank personally, as I'm not saying you were.


6 - You embraced Ly, I get that. Cool, you released them; I only embraced them because they told me they don't want to sit buckled to a chair and I needed a hand with maintaining the other hostages and dealing with you. You also expressed wishes to rule the station, and made an army to do so; these are facts that you have just agreed to. If they didn't want to join your army, for example, the Tajaran, you left them to die.


7 - I never saw Albert fire, Albert didn't even know what had happened when he was revived. You went into the armoury, grabbed all the lethals you could find, ions, laser rifles, carbines, and armour, and opened fire with lethals against the crew. You could of used stun, like they were using, but instead you nearly killed a further two players while screaming you are innocent. The innocent man never goes down fighting. You were defending yourself from security who was coming to detain you for multiple counts of kidnapping and murder.


8 - B-4 was simply trying to treat the dead and dying, you were in their way too. You assaulted them and they, as far as I know, did nothing in return instead of continue to attempt to treat the wounded.


In summary, me, personally? I agree that some stuff I did was poor, but I also only acted to try and further RP with the crew, like both Harper and the Tajaran will be able to attest to. Understand that there were weapons on the side, I even left a welder with a mask there. The room was designed so that they could plot and escape on purpose so that people didn't have to just be buckled to a chair. Sadly I was forced to stay in the room all round as I had to deal with a certain Warden who was abusing my blood farm.

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Yes, I was Olek. You walked up to me, and because I dont meta, you told me repeatedly to look in your eyes. So, I did. And then you dominated me, told me I was not allowed to say a single word, and to follow you, where to took me to this farm, and locked me up. This doesnt allow for any sort of RP. I made it very clear, over and over, that I was not allowed to talk.


Because I was unconscious, you just left me there. What made you think I wanted to die, slowly, bleeding out, in a chair, with no medical available because you wrecked the medical bot that was in the room. Is it not natural to assume, yes, I would like to be free, and I would like to be alive, and actually awake. It wasnt fun interacting with you, and it was enjoyable, albiet one sided as it was, to interact with Aimee what little I did. You kept going on about ruling the station, making us vamps and then releasing us, which, when I said I did not want to be a part of, ended my round with me being unconscious, bleeding out because I tried to escape by biting my hand off, and you drank a large amount of my blood twice.


Prate quoted a cult round you were a part of, where you went on a massive murder spree, decapitating multiple people, even ones that were dying, simply because you could. I was then informed after trying to get you killed, never directly doing so but instead egging others on, that cult members, even if they are murderboning and going on a rampage, are not allowed to go against other cult members, in any way. So, I stopped.


There is also the round I remember being a part of where you, as a merc, were unhappy with the train we were taking. We were leaving, because we got what we came for and no one was really enjoying it, and you and someone else set up a nuke and asked for 3 sacrifices, going on about human trafficking.


Overall, I dont think this should be a character complain. I think TheOrleans should be antag banned, because this is three seperate occasions where he has made incredibly unfun situations. You kept going on about how Aimee forced us to be there, when you COMMANDED her to restrain us and sit us in place. My interactions with you as three very different characters, The Dragon, a merc, Dead-Lift, as a cultist, and now Olekitrov as a victim for a farm? We didnt have to be there. You understand the game well enough to unbuckle someone from their chair, and drag them away. It was very easy to remedy the situation as best as you could, but you simply made it worse. Your attitude in LOOC was very certainly not helping.

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I know you're not meant to comment on complaint threads you're not involved in, but  I, an arbiter of chaos,   and king of these new untamed Forums,    am very  frustrated by this complaint and would like   to put in my  Point of View because I don't want the emotive language in it to change how it's percieved.

I have absolutely no stake in this complaint because I have not interacted significantly with anyone involved with it to my knowledge. So, when I say what I'm about to say, I say it from the standpoint of a man who has no bias:

On 11/22/2018 at 4:52 PM, IAmCrystalClear said:

The player in question repeatedly bites the victims despite my protests, and sends two of them into a state of unconsciousness for roughly half an hour, one of which dies because of it.

3

From what was said later on, they died because they tried to bite their own hand off. If you do this kind of thing, the antagonist cannot be held responsible. And even if this was not true, that means that there's a dynamic conflict between your two characters. They might have died in the middle of it, but it promotes the story if done right. You haven't specified how it was done, so I don't know. If I was another vampire, I might do a similar thing, killing them when you're not there in order to boost my own power and start a murder mystery.

On 11/22/2018 at 4:52 PM, IAmCrystalClear said:

At this point, the room is so filled that I ask them to leave, and to leave my farm alone, when another player arrives, who they dominate, bring into the room, subdue, and then the player struggles, so they wordlessly thrall them.

3

If the player is struggling, then 'wordlessly' thralling them isn't bad. Putting the word 'wordlessly' does not make an action bad. You're presenting this like it was gank. If a janitor starts to struggle when I'm playing merc, I'll put a bullet in them without emoting, or delivering a snappy one-liner. That's not gank. That's an antagonistic reaction to someone who was trying to escape. That's being the bad guy and dealing with a problem. If they were a security officer, according to our own rules, he would be allowed to put down the officer without a moment's hesitation.

On 11/22/2018 at 4:52 PM, IAmCrystalClear said:

Shortly after this they continue to drain the players until they reach max strength, where they repeatedly demand we release all the victims, enthralling them and taking over the station, which i say no with the wisdom that several players present do not WANT to be thralls. They then decide to retaliate by repeatedly stunning everyone in the room, dominating me to prevent me from struggling, and then draining me to death.

3

I don't know if this is being presented as a negative or as a statement of fact. Vampires are bad guys. If you stand against their goal, vampire or not, they might take steps to take you down. They, in front of many people, tore into an ally in order to further their own ends. They betrayed you. That's not a bad thing. If anything, that's interesting: the plot has been advanced, because the status quo has changed. What did you want? The chamber to just keep growing? What was your end game? Did they know that? Did they agree with that?

On 11/22/2018 at 4:52 PM, IAmCrystalClear said:

They then proceed to start mass-turning everyone present, running when security arrives, going straight to the armoury screaming "I'm innocent it was her it was her", and gearing up with lethals and attempting to murder every sec officer present, and ioning a borg to an inch of it's life. Before this they'd also meleed a borg to a point that they became blind, and unable to save the lives of further crew.

3

Using the word 'mass' does not suddenly make something bad. Embracing people into the fold does not strip control away from the player. It gives them something new to do.
Running when security arrives does not make an antagonist bad. It's far more interesting to see the aftereffects of a brutal betrayal and to know that the perpetrator is still at large than for them to be dead.
Saying that they were 'screaming' over the radio does not make what they were saying bad. They know they weren't innocent. You know they weren't innocent. Them trying to pretend that they were is not bad.
Making a cyborg 'unable to save the lives of further crew' does not mean that the antagonist is bad. People die in this game. If a cyborg put itself in a situation where it was facing down an antag, then it might get hurt, same as anyone.


You keep saying things without specifying what makes them bad. Are they bad because the players didn't want to be embraced? If so, tough. This happens. It's part of the game. You don't get impunity from an antagonists plan because it's inconvenient to you. You need to clarify what it was that happened that was bad. You can't just throw around emotive language (a pet peeve of mine for player complaints). You need to clarify.

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21 hours ago, FreshRefreshments said:

Yes, I was Olek. You walked up to me, and because I dont meta, you told me repeatedly to look in your eyes. So, I did. And then you dominated me, told me I was not allowed to say a single word, and to follow you, where to took me to this farm, and locked me up. This doesnt allow for any sort of RP. I made it very clear, over and over, that I was not allowed to talk.

 

Because I was unconscious, you just left me there. What made you think I wanted to die, slowly, bleeding out, in a chair, with no medical available because you wrecked the medical bot that was in the room. Is it not natural to assume, yes, I would like to be free, and I would like to be alive, and actually awake. It wasnt fun interacting with you, and it was enjoyable, albiet one sided as it was, to interact with Aimee what little I did. You kept going on about ruling the station, making us vamps and then releasing us, which, when I said I did not want to be a part of, ended my round with me being unconscious, bleeding out because I tried to escape by biting my hand off, and you drank a large amount of my blood twice.

 

Prate quoted a cult round you were a part of, where you went on a massive murder spree, decapitating multiple people, even ones that were dying, simply because you could. I was then informed after trying to get you killed, never directly doing so but instead egging others on, that cult members, even if they are murderboning and going on a rampage, are not allowed to go against other cult members, in any way. So, I stopped.

 

There is also the round I remember being a part of where you, as a merc, were unhappy with the train we were taking. We were leaving, because we got what we came for and no one was really enjoying it, and you and someone else set up a nuke and asked for 3 sacrifices, going on about human trafficking.

 

Overall, I dont think this should be a character complain. I think TheOrleans should be antag banned, because this is three seperate occasions where he has made incredibly unfun situations. You kept going on about how Aimee forced us to be there, when you COMMANDED her to restrain us and sit us in place. My interactions with you as three very different characters, The Dragon, a merc, Dead-Lift, as a cultist, and now Olekitrov as a victim for a farm? We didnt have to be there. You understand the game well enough to unbuckle someone from their chair, and drag them away. It was very easy to remedy the situation as best as you could, but you simply made it worse. Your attitude in LOOC was very certainly not helping.

You were not allowed to say a single word... until we arrived, not that you were not allowed to speak during the rest of the shift. I don't know if you know anything about the Vampire mechanics, but the Domination command is only for orders related to the near future.

I didn't know you were unconscious, I even asked you in the end if you wanted to be embraced or released (in IC) because I didn't know you were unconscious until you told me in LOOC.

I didn't mean to rule the station by embracing you, since, when a vampire embraces another player, that player is not bound to the original vampire, so it was not about me ruling anything.

 

The only person I apologized to in my reply was you because, in fact, I didn't notice you were bleeding out or unconscious, so that mistake made the round not enjoyable for you. However, a vampire biting you will not lead to you bleeding out, you died because you started biting your own hand. I don't feel that much responsible now.

 

And I am not going to answer to the last things, if you want me antag banned for the other rounds start a new complaint. It is not correct to bring other issues here, when those issues were not even ahelped or if they were, admins told you that you were not right.

Edited by TheOrleans

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I don't know how you didnt notice that, considering I told you. Also, you drained me twice. I had a broken hand, yes. I also did not have nearly enough blood to keep myself alive. You asked me, I presume, ICly what I wanted. And because I could not answer, ICly, because, again, you drained a large amount of my blood twice, you just let me slowly die from a small wound, and from the oxygen deprivation from a lack of blood.

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1 hour ago, FreshRefreshments said:

I don't know how you didnt notice that, considering I told you. Also, you drained me twice. I had a broken hand, yes. I also did not have nearly enough blood to keep myself alive. You asked me, I presume, ICly what I wanted. And because I could not answer, ICly, because, again, you drained a large amount of my blood twice, you just let me slowly die from a small wound, and from the oxygen deprivation from a lack of blood.

The that you bled out happened due the fact that you were trying to escape by biting your hand.  And I didn't read that you were unconscious until you told me in LOOC when I asked you.

 

However, I'm going to ask you a question. You wanted to escape by... dismembering yourself or... what?

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Yes. I was stuck, handcuffed, due to your own decision. You cannot easily break out of a cuffs and chair, unless the other person is paying 0 attention. One of the mechanics, set in place to combat this, is chewing your hand, which can cause the cuffs to slip off. You cannot handcuff someone with one hand. There was nothing else I could do in the situation that did not end in me being thralled, or vamped.

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6 hours ago, FreshRefreshments said:

Yes. I was stuck, handcuffed, due to your own decision. You cannot easily break out of a cuffs and chair, unless the other person is paying 0 attention. One of the mechanics, set in place to combat this, is chewing your hand, which can cause the cuffs to slip off. You cannot handcuff someone with one hand. There was nothing else I could do in the situation that did not end in me being thralled, or vamped.

So you, a normal Tajara, engineer, decided to... bite your hand to... get dismembered so you could escape? You know how painful and hard that would be? Biting your hand, the skin, the bone until.. my god. This is SO UNREAL, and you should get a note or a warn for that.

 

Stop watching SAW movies please.

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There is a reason the mechanic is in place. Its to prevent just flat out being stuck to a chair, like this. When you're a terrified assistant, and all you know is this guy can tell you what to do, on command, you do what you need to do to try to escape. You can fix a broken hand. You can't fix being dead. Again, the mechanic is specifically in place for a reason.

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2 hours ago, FreshRefreshments said:

There is a reason the mechanic is in place. Its to prevent just flat out being stuck to a chair, like this. When you're a terrified assistant, and all you know is this guy can tell you what to do, on command, you do what you need to do to try to escape. You can fix a broken hand. You can't fix being dead. Again, the mechanic is specifically in place for a reason.

You were not breaking your hand, you were EATING IT until you had no hand. A mechanic existing does not mean you can use it senseless.

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I was indeed breaking my hand. After it broke, I was able to slip it out of the cuffs. Thats how I attacked you, the first time. Which, led to you draining me, twice, and then leaving me buckled unconscious to a chair, not doing anything about it once I was. You just left me knocked out. 

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On 11/22/2018 at 9:36 PM, IAmCrystalClear said:

 

0 - Both victims came in willingly, and seemed to be enjoying it until you knocked one out and the other was totally ignored due to the fact you were constantly beating on everyone.

 

1 - In this part I was talking about the Tajara, who's name I forget. I repeatedly tried to talk to them and they repeatedly made it clear they were not allowed to talk. They later died after being knocked out from you draining them.

 

2 - You never uttered a word of releasing them, instead randomly calling me insane shortly after, and even brought more victims IN to the room after I told you to leave.

 

3 - Didn't see HOW you made them come into the room, but I told Harper to leave so that she wouldn't get involved in the mess that was quite insane at this point. Either way you stripped them, and [mention]Rosetango[/mention], the player of this character, even suggested I make this complaint.

 

4 - I here quote "Aimee, why don't we make them like us?" to which I replied "No, that just means Aimee has to fight more people." which happened RIGHT at the start when we simply had three. If you wanted to release them, why did you leave them unconscious on the floor after I was contacted by Yoni suggesting to release them and tried to do so; you attacked me when I tried.

 

5 - If someone does not want to be a thrall, that is their choice. You should respect that, certain people don't like playing antags and would rather be buckled to a chair with their own free will than a slave to some ganking dick. Don't take the gank personally, as I'm not saying you were.

 

6 - You embraced Ly, I get that. Cool, you released them; I only embraced them because they told me they don't want to sit buckled to a chair and I needed a hand with maintaining the other hostages and dealing with you. You also expressed wishes to rule the station, and made an army to do so; these are facts that you have just agreed to. If they didn't want to join your army, for example, the Tajaran, you left them to die.

 

7 - I never saw Albert fire, Albert didn't even know what had happened when he was revived. You went into the armoury, grabbed all the lethals you could find, ions, laser rifles, carbines, and armour, and opened fire with lethals against the crew. You could of used stun, like they were using, but instead you nearly killed a further two players while screaming you are innocent. The innocent man never goes down fighting. You were defending yourself from security who was coming to detain you for multiple counts of kidnapping and murder.

 

8 - B-4 was simply trying to treat the dead and dying, you were in their way too. You assaulted them and they, as far as I know, did nothing in return instead of continue to attempt to treat the wounded.

 

In summary, me, personally? I agree that some stuff I did was poor, but I also only acted to try and further RP with the crew, like both Harper and the Tajaran will be able to attest to. Understand that there were weapons on the side, I even left a welder with a mask there. The room was designed so that they could plot and escape on purpose so that people didn't have to just be buckled to a chair. Sadly I was forced to stay in the room all round as I had to deal with a certain Warden who was abusing my blood farm.

 

0 - The other human male that wasn't Darius wasn't so happy about being there

1 - Your complaint is not following the correct order then. If the Tajara missunderstood the order it is not my problem. The domination order is only "effective" for some minutes, and it is clarified in the antag role. If the player missunderstood how it works it is not my bad. And, it seems you are not reading anything posted, she bled out because she bit her hand to relase herself (by cutting her own hand... that's a good way to get yourself knocked out and dead). I can't be held responsible for that.

2 - Yes I did. And the logs will show it.

3-  It was my decision as antag, and you can not blame me for it. I didn't want to let go someone that had seen where we were and what we were doing. 

4- More blatant lies here. I attacked you when I reached max power to release them. If you had contacted an admin about it, I couldn't guess it, that's obvious. I talked about releasing them way before reaching max power, and logs will show it, I repeat.

5- As I said before, I wanted to EMBRACE THEM (convert them to vampires, FREE vampires), NOT ENTHRALL them. Did you at least read what I said? And I only embraced people either to release them from being your thrall (Ly) or because they wanted to (Darius and the other)

6- I get it, you don't have idea of how embracement works. I said I wanted to EMBRACE them. That would never make me the ruler of the station, since vampires are not bound to the one who converted them in any way. I didn't want to rule the station as a single person, when I said it, I was talking about ruling as vampires, together. 

7- Albert was in the room where we had the farm, so, yes, he knew what was going on... why is this complaint so full of incorrect facts (either stated by mistake or just lies). And I am 90% sure he shot tazer against me before I shot. Please check that. However, even if he didn't, I didn't kill anyone on purpose, I just kept running away. Yeah, I could have used stun... maybe if I wasn't an antag that was 1v5...  You are mixing IC and OOC. OF COURSE I was not innocent, we all know that OOC, I was an antag, and I tried to lie ICly, What's your problem with it?

8- He kept pushing me against the wall. The difference is that he was a medical borg and I was in his way, while I was an antag, a max power vampire, and a cyborg was pushing me against a wall not letting me move. I assaulted him. Yep.

 

During all this complaint, you have been acusing me of... being an antag? Shooting lethals while being 1v5 against security (and never stopping to kill someone, just kept running). Assaulting a cyborg that was pushing me against a wall. Killing another vampire who was ICly going against me (remember, you hit me with a bat, and you even broke my skull before I attacked you).

So, I never wanted to enthrall people to rule the station alone, I wanted to RELEASE them and embrace them so we could rule the station as Vampires, together. Yes, I assaulted people and borgs... that something that happens when you are an antag and someone is trying to capture you, you know? This complaint is full of lies, salt because I killed you (I repeat, I had reasons and you had broken my skull before I did it), and emotional based accusations because I wasn't a strawberry tart cute guy while being a vampire.

Edited by TheOrleans

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On 11/23/2018 at 12:26 PM, Ornias said:

I know you're not meant to comment on complaint threads you're not involved in, but  I, an arbiter of chaos,   and king of these new untamed Forums,    am very  frustrated by this complaint and would like   to put in my  Point of View because I don't want the emotive language in it to change how it's percieved.

I have absolutely no stake in this complaint because I have not interacted significantly with anyone involved with it to my knowledge. So, when I say what I'm about to say, I say it from the standpoint of a man who has no bias:

From what was said later on, they died because they tried to bite their own hand off. If you do this kind of thing, the antagonist cannot be held responsible. And even if this was not true, that means that there's a dynamic conflict between your two characters. They might have died in the middle of it, but it promotes the story if done right. You haven't specified how it was done, so I don't know. If I was another vampire, I might do a similar thing, killing them when you're not there in order to boost my own power and start a murder mystery.

If the player is struggling, then 'wordlessly' thralling them isn't bad. Putting the word 'wordlessly' does not make an action bad. You're presenting this like it was gank. If a janitor starts to struggle when I'm playing merc, I'll put a bullet in them without emoting, or delivering a snappy one-liner. That's not gank. That's an antagonistic reaction to someone who was trying to escape. That's being the bad guy and dealing with a problem. If they were a security officer, according to our own rules, he would be allowed to put down the officer without a moment's hesitation.

I don't know if this is being presented as a negative or as a statement of fact. Vampires are bad guys. If you stand against their goal, vampire or not, they might take steps to take you down. They, in front of many people, tore into an ally in order to further their own ends. They betrayed you. That's not a bad thing. If anything, that's interesting: the plot has been advanced, because the status quo has changed. What did you want? The chamber to just keep growing? What was your end game? Did they know that? Did they agree with that?

Using the word 'mass' does not suddenly make something bad. Embracing people into the fold does not strip control away from the player. It gives them something new to do.
Running when security arrives does not make an antagonist bad. It's far more interesting to see the aftereffects of a brutal betrayal and to know that the perpetrator is still at large than for them to be dead.
Saying that they were 'screaming' over the radio does not make what they were saying bad. They know they weren't innocent. You know they weren't innocent. Them trying to pretend that they were is not bad.
Making a cyborg 'unable to save the lives of further crew' does not mean that the antagonist is bad. People die in this game. If a cyborg put itself in a situation where it was facing down an antag, then it might get hurt, same as anyone.


You keep saying things without specifying what makes them bad. Are they bad because the players didn't want to be embraced? If so, tough. This happens. It's part of the game. You don't get impunity from an antagonists plan because it's inconvenient to you. You need to clarify what it was that happened that was bad. You can't just throw around emotive language (a pet peeve of mine for player complaints). You need to clarify.

And, please, take this post into account, it explains a lot of my frustration when reading this complaint, full of emotional-based reasoning. I am being accusated of being a dick and an asshole because I did... bad things while being an antag. It feels like the player who posted it thinks that the IC Vampire is me OOCly.

Edited by TheOrleans

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Im going to be very honest with my verdict,  emotions seem high over this and I understand why, but onto the main topic

However I have come to a verdict on this, while Crystal did exaggerate on some issues that I was able to double check with the logs ,the point of the complaint still stands clear at the very very poor antag play that went on in this. Being a antag be used as a power trip and even with vampire gimmicks there is a sense in not letting it get to this point as the round becomes less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station. However with this said,I will have a verdict in place soon

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2 hours ago, DRagO said:

Im going to be very honest with my verdict,  emotions seem high over this and I understand why, but onto the main topic

However I have come to a verdict on this, while Crystal did exaggerate on some issues that I was able to double check with the logs ,the point of the complaint still stands clear at the very very poor antag play that went on in this. Being a antag be used as a power trip and even with vampire gimmicks there is a sense in not letting it get to this point as the round becomes less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station. However with this said, I will not be placing a server ban down in this case, but to fit the punishment, I will be placing a antag ban down on Orleans due to past issues involving escalation and proper rp procedure. This ban's length is indeterminate and will be lifted once he can prove he can handle the role of a antag. Should issues arise after the antag with improper rp or escalation issues, a higher form of punishment may be issued.

I will leave this open for 48 hours before closing it should there be anymore questions that need placed

16

nobody has specified what he has done wrong

what about his play was 'very very poor antag play'

what about his play was 'less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station'

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21 hours ago, DRagO said:

Im going to be very honest with my verdict,  emotions seem high over this and I understand why, but onto the main topic

However I have come to a verdict on this, while Crystal did exaggerate on some issues that I was able to double check with the logs ,the point of the complaint still stands clear at the very very poor antag play that went on in this. Being a antag be used as a power trip and even with vampire gimmicks there is a sense in not letting it get to this point as the round becomes less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station. However with this said,I will have a verdict in place soon

Would you, please, tell me the things I did wrong? Less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station? Why did I play a ''very very poor antag''?

Do you think it is not compatible to rule the station together as vampires and roleplaying? Although that was my main goal, rule the station along with the other vampires, it didn't mean I was not roleplaying. Every embraced person was asked, I motivated them to join, to become vampires, to become rulers are not the ones ruled. That was all roleplay there. 

The only two ones that died were Crystal (and, as I stated before, and you can check it, she broke my skull with very little RP before that, and she was totally going against my goals by keeping all those players who could become vampires buckled to chairs) and the Tajara that bled out because she was trying to amputate her own hand by biting it. 

Please, if you think I did something wrong (I probably did, no one is perfect, and I am not even close to being good, since I am not an experienced player), tell me the particular things, so I can learn about them (I really hope to become better with each mistake I fix)... ''very very poor antag play'' and ''less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station'' is nothing definite, so I can't learn about it.

 

Thank you.

Edited by TheOrleans
published when not finished by mistake

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On 11/29/2018 at 11:19 AM, TheOrleans said:

Would you, please, tell me the things I did wrong? Less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station? Why did I play a ''very very poor antag''?

Do you think it is not compatible to rule the station together as vampires and roleplaying? Although that was my main goal, rule the station along with the other vampires, it didn't mean I was not roleplaying. Every embraced person was asked, I motivated them to join, to become vampires, to become rulers are not the ones ruled. That was all roleplay there. 

The only two ones that died were Crystal (and, as I stated before, and you can check it, she broke my skull with very little RP before that, and she was totally going against my goals by keeping all those players who could become vampires buckled to chairs) and the Tajara that bled out because she was trying to amputate her own hand by biting it. 

Please, if you think I did something wrong (I probably did, no one is perfect, and I am not even close to being good, since I am not an experienced player), tell me the particular things, so I can learn about them (I really hope to become better with each mistake I fix)... ''very very poor antag play'' and ''less rp and more bent on trying to overpower the station'' is nothing definite, so I can't learn about it.

 

Thank you.

 

"Orleans's gimmick as it stands was ok in its idea and for most of the play. However the issue with the gimmick was moreso how it climaxed out and ended. The gimmick at the end had escalated quite far and actions taken by orleans were by standards acceptable, however the flaw in it comes with the interactions with others, namely those he brought into the chamber and dominated. Gimmick's that run in a course like this can stall down to a un-fun grind that at times leads to situations where more escalation is needed or where rp can ensue" With this in mind and to overcap the situation, Orleans did create a belivable gimmick but the only issue that did happen would be the lack of rp where he could of furthered it properly via escalation but failed to do so. However this does not break any rules of the server, so therefore I will leave this as a verbal warning at most, that when doing gimmicks such as this, please if possible try to aim for the climax of the gimmick to still allow rp for others, the idea fo a antag is to help drive a story, and you cant quite drive a story with the gimmicks issues towardw the end"

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