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kyres1

Move transfer docks to the main level

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What the title says. The surface already hardly gets any traffic barring new arrivals and departure, and it's a decent noob trap against greytiders who can't utilize advanced elevator technology. However, it's also subject to like a fucking million or so things that depressurize basically the whole level, especially pivotal places like red dock and blue dock. The simple idea here is moving the shuttle landing points into large chasms in the asteroid, presumably where the shuttle would take off and land vertically. This makes more sense anyhow, seeing as there would be natural cover from external objects zipping by in most cases. Like a natural hangar!

 

 

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where would it fit? would we move security or the vault or something? i think putting it in the area where the vault currently is is a good idea, and moving the vault ... maybe a level down, like it was before.

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Moving the vault to a more secure location and putting a hall to a transfer area in it's original would be nice.
 

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Not to mention all the fun events that can happen to make red dock inaccessible currently, like carp migrations or elevators losing power. If something can be done to prevent transfer from being hell to even get to or straight up untenable, by all means. Why not on the far side of the engineering corridor or, failing that, the current location of the vault?

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It'd be easier to make it so these events leading to the venting of the surface level have a less chance of occuring, for example, carps used to only break windows if they saw someone inside, and I think it should be reverted to that instead of them creating  needless busywork by breaking into places.
As for elevators being hard for new people to see, I agree. We need to change their visual style so they're more easy to make out from everything else.
Moving departures to the main level would be colossal effort, and with it you'd have to reconsider the entire purpose of the surface level, I'm don't think it'd pay off either.

Edited by ferner

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if we moved the docks inside then the surface docks would cease any function at all other than cryo and the pool (very weak reasons)

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I think that red dock should be hardened against carp attacks so that it isn't so easily breached by carp. It has massive wide open windows in all directions, and there's a number of other places in the surface area leading to red dock that have the same problem.

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I agree with this post, but because of completely different reasons:

What is the place that antagonists would like to detonate the most of the entire station? Security.
What is above security? Departures/Arrivals.
What is against server rules/acceptable behavior? Destroying Departures/Arrivals

Tl;dr: If you move departures, you will see less bombing of medbay/science, as people who want to bomb will actually be able to bomb their intended targets.

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19 minutes ago, Naelynn said:

I agree with this post, but because of completely different reasons:

What is the place that antagonists would like to detonate the most of the entire station? Security.
What is above security? Departures/Arrivals.
What is against server rules/acceptable behavior? Destroying Departures/Arrivals

Tl;dr: If you move departures, you will see less bombing of medbay/science, as people who want to bomb will actually be able to bomb their intended targets.

People already bomb Security- more so than anywhere else. So the implication that they're being denied their target is false.

I'm hesitant to support moving arrivals to the main deck, because it's better that the departures area be away from the main deck where most antag situations will take place. Honestly, just up the shield strength, add a new type of wall and window for exteriors- make them reasonably strong.

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1 minute ago, AmoryBlaine said:

So the implication that they're being denied their target is false.

Trust me on this - It is a real concern for me when I use explosives - primarily because I try to avoid using welder bombs, but rather mix my own grenades, and those pack enough of a punch to wreck several z-levels.

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2 minutes ago, Naelynn said:

Trust me on this - It is a real concern for me when I use explosives - primarily because I try to avoid using welder bombs, but rather mix my own grenades, and those pack enough of a punch to wreck several z-levels.

Yes, and that's more a you problem than a problem at large. If you're creating explosives that are taking out multiple z levels, you really shouldn't be doing that. Unless, of course, you have an intent in hitting those z levels?

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1 minute ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Yes, and that's more a you problem than a problem at large. If you're creating explosives that are taking out multiple z levels, you really shouldn't be doing that. Unless, of course, you have an intent in hitting those z levels?

Yeaaaaahhhh, your really shouldn’t be building bombs with the power to fuck multiple z-levels in the first place unless you actually want to fuck multiple z-levels. This seems more like a you problem, Naelynn

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23 minutes ago, AmoryBlaine said:

Yes, and that's more a you problem than a problem at large.

 

20 minutes ago, Roostercat said:

This seems more like a you problem, Naelynn



Let's ignore the derailment and focus on the topic please.

Reality is: Security is under arrivals, meaning it can easily become collateral, and nobody wants that.

Thank you for staying on topic.

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16 hours ago, wowzewow said:

if we moved the docks inside then the surface docks would cease any function at all other than cryo and the pool (very weak reasons)

I am going to be honest. Reducing the size of the surface level is probably a good thing.

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Pulling the "sounds like a you problem" card instead of saying literally anything more constructive for the conversation. Yikes.

I get what Naelynn is saying. Due to the nature of multi-Z it's extremely discouraged, disadvantageous and near-bannable to use a bomb once to cripple the security department because it will always cripple departures too, which is flawed map design.

Would be nice if we did something about this, so that bombing one place doesn't necessarily cripple a completely different part of the station.

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On 23/11/2019 at 22:15, Scheveningen said:

Pulling the "sounds like a you problem" card instead of saying literally anything more constructive for the conversation. Yikes.

I get what Naelynn is saying. Due to the nature of multi-Z it's extremely discouraged, disadvantageous and near-bannable to use a bomb once to cripple the security department because it will always cripple departures too, which is flawed map design.

Would be nice if we did something about this, so that bombing one place doesn't necessarily cripple a completely different part of the station.

They say its a you problem because if the antag makes a bomb strong enough to pierce the entire asteroid to the surface, you are using overkill.

 

I don't agree with this suggestion for the following reasons:

1. There are ladders in maint which lead to surface, heads can swipe to open maint for all so they can utilize these stairs

2. surface would just because the transfer floor to main, instead of the EOR gathering departure space

3. No real space for it without a massive overhaul of the command section (which is estimated to be place)

4. You expect me to believe that a automated shuttle just zooms out of bluespace, zooms perfectly down the asteroid, and lands in a awkward landing zone?

5. It is between security and command, and would likely be the unintended recipient of some damage due to bombs (aka the ones that are not overkilled)

Overall, I see no reason to change it to surface, and there are multiple measures to reach the surface if elevators don't work.

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There are a million different ways to get to the surface if Command is smart enough to open maintenance, and the fact that all (normal) shuttles have to come through the surface of this giant asteroid is nice. 

 

I get the concerns, but there are solutions to most things between you and the shuttle.

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