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kyres1

kyres1 interim lore master deputy application 2 electric boogaloo

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Ckey/BYOND Username: kyres1

Position Being Applied For: Interim Deputy Loremaster

Past Experiences/Knowledge: About a year and a half of going from synthetic lore deputy, to synth loredev, to interim deputy loremaster. Spriting and working with devs basically all throughout the way on a dozen or so projects of varying sizes. As well, I've had my hand in some major lore arcs that include but aren't limited to the Scarab introductions, Offworlders as a whole, the entire SLF Incursion arc, etc. As well, some atrociously huge amount of hours logged in game and rising. Lots of NBT work on the lore end of things. As well, the Purpose arc (the one that failed miserably.)

Examples of Past Work: Around 40-50 google docs worth of leftovers from lore developing. Pretty much every synthetic lore wiki page, barring the general synthetics page. Many, many, many event sheets.

https://forums.aurorastation.org/calendar/event/49-slf-incursion-arc/

Additional Comments : In regards to posting something related to my cause,

Something I've always sought for our lore was a definitive structure or "end goal" for every loredev to pursue and every player to set their eyes on. This, to me, was something I was sure the team could never agree on, being so split across the center and polarized in many ways. For this exact reason, before I left, a major thing to push was some coherence between species lore developers and what head staff - the only people who could be above them - wanted. In most cases I'm sure this would've led to some unsatisfactory outcomes as head staff put their foot down in regards to some major issues, but there are in fact major issues still outstanding to this day that folks won't be able to decide without exactly that.

With all that said, bloat is my primary target, not only to destroy the excess clutter in every regard but also to remedy the issue of unmoderated fluff being poured into the foundation of lore. This might sound grim, as if I intend to delete a million wiki pages, but what I moreso mean is taking on this stance moving forward. Would this addition stand the test of time, if even temporarily? Would this addition attract or appease the playerbase? These are vital questions to ask moving forward, ones I don't intend to let be brushed over should I step back in.

Back to the beginning though, a definitive structure is absolutely needed for the former to actually take place. By this, I mean the species developers working together - collective arcs involving more than one species is the simplest way to put this, and the most complex way is to move on to an end goal. The Next Big Thing is already propped up as the target here, and thus that is the end goal I intend to work towards. Solidifying this and actually getting a workflow in place for proceeding onto it in regards to lore specifically is priority #1 for me, trying to pace it at the speed development permits.

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Not a whole lot to say except that Kyres is probably the most fit in the community for this role right now, just based on their previous experience in it, and the trust that everyone has in them.

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I fully endorse this application, if it wasn't clear enough. Kyres way more fit for the role that the current applicants (just me!). Knows his stuff, has the full trust of the lore team, and was already in charge of such position previously.

Big yas!

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1 minute ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

What lead you to resign last time and is it something that could potentiqlly occur again?

Real life issues and stress were my primary issues, though over what exactly I'd rather keep to myself. I will say that I'm certain what led me to resign originally won't happen again, as the life issues were one-time hurdles and they've been overcome.

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Thats good.

What specific steps will you take and require of loredevs to tackle bloat? How do you define it? Can you identify solid examples and how you'll fix it?

Because from my memory you discussed a total work stoppage until we could figure it out.

Edited by Marlon Phoenix

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I've said it in the previous app, but nobody cares more about the server and the people in it than Kyres. From lore to arcs to antag gimmicks, his goal has always been, in my experience, to make things fun for everyone and to encourage people to bring out their creativity. He's approachable, knowledgeable, and friendly. There could not be a more qualified person for this role.

I do worry about your stress, though. If you don't think you can handle it, then I encourage you not to apply for your own well-being. You have a habit of working yourself too hard for everyone else's sake. If you do feel like you can, then I think we'd all be better to have you. Looking forward to the questions that pop up and how you'll respond to them. 

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Just now, Marlon Phoenix said:

Thats good.

What specific steps will you take and require of loredevs to tackle bloat? How do you define it? Can you identify solid examples and how you'll fix it?

1. First order of business is likely nothing complicated. Review from other loredevs will be encouraged on new developments, and more text going through the lore_writers channel specifically is important. What I'll primarily seek is to be level with people more and try to put players first in every single regard of development to ensure that as much as we can get is well-received and paves the way for better stuff.

2. I toss around the word bloat a lot jokingly, but a clear definition of it for example would be wiki stuff nobody reads. Things like super isolated off-shoot pages and surveys that largely end up in "Who?" are, to me, things that need to go.

 

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Kyres is an excellent fit for this position, has previous experience, is highly motivated, and is a pleasure to work and talk with. I have nothing to give to this application other than my support.

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Sort of falling in with the above,

I was both disappointed and angry when Kyres resigned. He was an amazing member of the Lore team and an active one, and he'd fit the bill of an interim Lore Master's Deputy quite well. I know I'd feel better about the direction of the server's lore if he was onboard for it in a senior position.

Easy support, maximum +1.

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+1. Real life has a tendency to force people to do things they don't really want to, but it's important to make time for them nonetheless. If it's all squared away at this point they should be back on board.

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1 hour ago, kyres1 said:

1. First order of business is likely nothing complicated. Review from other loredevs will be encouraged on new developments, and more text going through the lore_writers channel specifically is important. What I'll primarily seek is to be level with people more and try to put players first in every single regard of development to ensure that as much as we can get is well-received and paves the way for better stuff.

2. I toss around the word bloat a lot jokingly, but a clear definition of it for example would be wiki stuff nobody reads. Things like super isolated off-shoot pages and surveys that largely end up in "Who?" are, to me, things that need to go.

 

Can you identify pages like that?

Do you still believe in a full lore work stoppage?

What will you do about arcs and articles that you feel are bloat?

I would be really frustrated if all unathi development was frozen while we went through every faction for a review, for example, or to have, say, The Contact War page told to be deleted for being bloat. 

 

 

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Kyres has, from my perspective, a level head and a wealth of knowledge and experience on the server. I think they would make an incredible Interim Deputy Loremaster. They easily get an eager +1 from me.

I was going to ask you what bloat was to you, but you've already answered it!

Edited by niennab

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4 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Can you identify pages like that?

I don't want to jump to assumptions as for pages right now due to my relative detachment in these last few weeks from lore in general, but something I can absolutely pin down are the pages I ended up axing and deleting. For example, all of the synthetic factions once had individual pages, and during the time Rudatek existed they were very spread thin as far as player knowledge went. "What's Purpose," was never asked, while "What's the button right next to it," was very frequently asked. For this purpose I condensed them into synthetic factions, and removed mentions of the skinstealers (Rudatek) from the wiki. While they aren't noncanon (Or, at least, weren't made noncanon during my time), they felt like trivial information to note with an entire page for what would end up being less than 2 paragraphs. This, in my mind, was bloat.

Another example was the SSTA page, a rather strange page that seemed to dictate and govern exactly how robots were meant to think. Short debate was had between myself and Cake as to the importance of it, but in the day and age where our idea was to pursue character freedom above all else, we deemed it bloat and I had it killed.

4 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Do you still believe in a full lore work stoppage?

Yes, I believe in stopping lore writing full-stop as part of developing a better framework for how lore is developed. No, this was never meant to apply to the whole team, as far as I remember, but you've got the logs, and I do not anymore. My idea was to stop lore development from nonessential branches of lore and focus on revision/refinement of what we had. For example, Unathi lore remains unaffected while Human lore gets a serious look-over. When Human lore is done, we move onto the next in line, which may or may not be Unathi lore. If this is in any way different than what I originally proposed, let me know.

4 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

What will you do about arcs and articles that you feel are bloat?

Mandatory revision from our large lore team. Simple as that. In actually reviewing what we're doing, we can in post determine whether or not it's beneficial to actually change or delete it. The vast majority of the time I wager will never result in deletion, or even changes to present lore.

 

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OH GOD HOW DID I NOT SEE THIS SOONER
I legit almost cried when you left and I hope that says enough about how I feel about your work on the lore team.

Quote

Yes, I believe in stopping lore writing full-stop as part of developing a better framework for how lore is developed. No, this was never meant to apply to the whole team, as far as I remember, but you've got the logs, and I do not anymore. My idea was to stop lore development from nonessential branches of lore and focus on revision/refinement of what we had. For example, Unathi lore remains unaffected while Human lore gets a serious look-over. When Human lore is done, we move onto the next in line, which may or may not be Unathi lore. If this is in any way different than what I originally proposed, let me know.

I agree with this idea(even though I'm part of the reason why human lore has been moving at a snail's pace) and hope we can work together on great things for the server. I might drop in and ask some questions later on

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I see you put your heart into every antag round, trying to get a great gimmik together and using AooC to help new people learn. You have provided interesting characters that fit and delivered the lore to new folks all around and I am personally one of those that really felt welcomed by that kind of play. No reason to not support you from what I see in the game itself.

Also strongly agree that you might run into the trap of burning yourself out. Leadership is not an easy task, neither is reformation of something. I believe that you got it in you, but hope you will reach out and not burry yourself in work. In this regard your resignation is a rather big plus for me since seeing when to pass and focus on something more important is an incredibly important ability and leads to more productive results than just crunching through.

Easy +1, though @Juani2400 should not be scared of the comparison. You are both awesome people.

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I agree that there are problems with development heaping on top of development but i disagree strongly with your prescription.

The biggest problem that consumes all else is the over representation of player lore in human writing. When i was loremaster i set the guideline in place that the core worlds should be locked down and the frontier left wild and free for backstories. All of these factions have meandered their way onto the wiki. We have loadsa megacorps, loadsa minor factions in the frontier, and loadsa general organizations or subsidiaries.

When i tried to remedy this shortly before my dismissal by evaluating the factions with my "describe it in 12 words or less" to force us to distill a factions ethos to its most core value we, or rather i, found a major issue with the repetition of themes in humanspace. Part of my remedy, to merge Heph with EE icly, was met with hard pushback and you were one of the people that strongly disagreed on this approach. How will you handle strong pushback since your prescription seems a lot more forceful than mine?

How do you otherwise try to gauge projects that come to you?

Semi recently i brought Koko bars, a unathi snack, to you asking for some spritework. You declined then proceeded to question the entire affair. If you were engaging in what you want to see in regards to bloat, would you cancel Kokos inclusion? What about its parent faction, the Compact?

How do you try to emperically handle this?

My own alternative policy is halting any additional human frontier factions, locking down what we have, and keeping player lore tightly narrow in its stream into the wiki. What do you think?

Additionally, do you mean to say you want to see retcons of old news articles? This is very alarming - we should never retcon our past ic developments. Do you disagree?

Edited by Marlon Phoenix

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1 hour ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

How will you handle strong pushback since your prescription seems a lot more forceful than mine?

I've always caved to strong pushback as far as I can remember. Generally folks don't tend to be super passionate about something without good reason, and folks on the lore team even more so.

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

How do you otherwise try to gauge projects that come to you?

Does it have substantial enough reason to exist/be worked on, and doesn't conflict with existing lore that could be tweaked to accomplish the same goal? That'll pretty much be my motto when addressing incoming projects.

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Semi recently i brought Koko bars, a unathi snack, to you asking for some spritework. You declined then proceeded to question the entire affair. If you were engaging in what you want to see in regards to bloat, would you cancel Kokos inclusion? What about its parent faction, the Compact?

See above.

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

How do you try to emperically handle this?

In the order of rework, remove, or retcon, with retcon being the last resort option for lore deemed sufficiently redundant. I too share the idea that retcons SUCK but to disregard them as a possibility entirely for what could be totally unread or totally pointless lore is in of itself pointless.

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

My own alternative policy is halting any additional human frontier factions, locking down what we have, and keeping player lore tightly narrow in its stream into the wiki. What do you think?

Maybe. This sounds like a question that requires higher knowledge of the inner workings of Human lore as it stands right now, so while I don't want to jump to assumptions, I will lay out two examples.

If the intent is to flesh out the Frontier itself beyond the barebones lore it already is, than halting additional factions entirely could be harmful in the long run.

If the intent is to leave the Frontier be as the skeletal sandbox it is, then yes, this is a completely satisfactory choice until the former can be pursued if ever.

2 hours ago, Marlon Phoenix said:

Additionally, do you mean to say you want to see retcons of old news articles? This is very alarming - we should never retcon our past ic developments. Do you disagree?

No. I do however want news articles to be much more easily accessible, with lore primarily chronicled in a means that is not news articles. This was a pretty radical idea mostly due to the work required, but a team effort could get the entire thing migrated to the calendar for example in just a few weeks of on/off writing, if even that. The calendar was always what I shot for during my time on the team, because it's very modular, simple to use, and Arrow has done some downright fascinating things with it. Linking it to the lore diary and making it a central outlet for news articles and lore team updates as a whole would benefit everyone I feel.

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My name is Drago and this is my friend kyres, a solid sweet caring kind fit for lore master deputy!

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I debated heavily to apply for this same position but due to a few reasons, have not. Having read this application and @Juani2400, that notion on itself has left as I think they’re both very capable. I’m also going to use this post to cover both applicants.

Both Kyres and Juani have been stellar members of staff, both bringing a lot of good experience and level headedness to the table. Kyres is a person I’ve always supported for management of lore due to his earlier work and investment he put in. Juani is a person I’ve worked more closely with on the administration team and an individual I to this day do not regret having them as an administrator, in the past and now.

So here is where they differ. Kyres has a more in-depth understanding of the working of the lore team, a stronger presence in the community and has been tested to facilitate things to the enjoyment of the community. This is not to say Juani is not suitable, I think both are quite suitable for the role, I just find that Kyres might be better equipped to handle it. 

 

So if I’m deciding between both, I’d have to lean towards Kyres.

 

Staff teams regardless of branch have tried different things over the years. The proposed lore stoppage is a thing that could be tried, and if no measurable success is seen within a reasonable time frame, could just be abandoned, so I’m not averse to trying it. 

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I have a few concerns to address before I move on to my verdict.

You were a fantastic deputy last time you were around and extremely helpful to me and the team. My issues however are the following.

1.) You seem to get stressed out and drained by the occasional drama that sparks up in lore writers. While it's understandable, we do need a cool head in a position of management.

2.) You have personal obligations which caused you to suddenly resign before, and I'm worried a similar unforeseen event could leave me deputy-less again. 

I think Marlon raised some valid concerns too that I do think we need to be a bit mindful and non-forceful when handling retcons. While sometimes they're absolutely necessary, and I know it's hypocritical coming from me and my past mistakes, but we need to be cautious to not alienate players and invalidate their characters with our decisions.

With all of that said, you were an excellent deputy who I didn't really want to resign in the first place, and I'm more than happy to welcome you back. Given the overwhelming support, even from the other applicant, and my own personal experience, I've decided to accept this application. Welcome back!

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