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Aphelion

remove robotics access to protolathe

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Hey all

Basically with robotics now being much much cooler, we're getting lots of roboticists on station, which is a nice change because robotic crew could always use the repairs. However, one downside is that with all the eager roboticists we're seeing regular scientists who work in R&D becoming redundant.

To summarize the issue, either robotics circumvents them by building their own protolathe, or robotics just hacks into R&D. 

R&D making robotics redundant was once a thing, and it's the primary reason why the mech and robot machines are only usable by people with robotics access, as far as I know.

For the sake of equilibrium, it would make sense to prevent roboticists having access to protolathe.

Would be good to know if there are any other solutions to this problem. This was just the first one that came to mind since it's what we've already done.

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5 minutes ago, Aphelion said:

To summarize the issue, either robotics circumvents them by building their own protolathe, or robotics just hacks into R&D. 

This is something that you can have them demoted for, and have Security called on them. An access change would solve this I suppose but it's simply easier to make the directives against it stricter.

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2 minutes ago, Carver said:

This is something that you can have them demoted for, and have Security called on them. An access change would solve this I suppose but it's simply easier to make the directives against it stricter.

I think this could work.
My one fret is OOCly I feel like an asshole to rock-up mid-shift and being salty enough to call security over having my work already done. But it would work a bit better than outright removal of robotics access. 

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You shouldn't feel like an asshole, it's the equivalent of having some Medical Resident do the job of the Surgeon. It's also worthy of writing up an IR, which is a fun way to discourage it.

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Absolutely not.
Robotics literally needs better than the default manipulators as to not waste their entire stock on one exosuit. With the sheer amount of other scientists that don't know R&D (purposefully), it is extremely painful.

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5 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

With the sheer amount of other scientists that don't know R&D (purposefully), it is extremely painful.

This point has to be solved first.

There are many research characters that INTENTIONALLY REFUSE TO DO RnD.

Robotics is cool, but it's primary appeal is the results of RnD. If the only scientists are those who refuse to do RnD, you are stuck in a really bad place.

Not to mention, do you really want to be bothered build scanning modules etc. every 5 minutes? You won't be able to leave it and do anything on the station because that annoying roboticist might want a part and won't stop shrieking at you until you give it because they are just sitting in their room unable to do anything.

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10 minutes ago, ParadoxSpace said:

Absolutely not.
Robotics literally needs better than the default manipulators as to not waste their entire stock on one exosuit. With the sheer amount of other scientists that don't know R&D (purposefully), it is extremely painful.

Robotics don't really need to build exosuits though, they're a nice thing that you can produce when materials permit. Like research making guns, or working with teleporters, or anything else.

 

5 minutes ago, Naelynn said:

There are many research characters that INTENTIONALLY REFUSE TO DO RnD.

I don't like that people do this. Especially when you consider R&D has been dumbed down considerably lately. But still, the role of robotics isn't to build really cool mechs 24/7. The role is to repair and maintain the robots on the station.

It's basically the same as a researcher breaking into cargo and mining because they want to make really cool guns (or whatever R&D does that is still fun) and the miner is incompetent.

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As far as I know it is an ahelpable offence to perform R&D as a roboticist as it is considered powergaming, unless that has changed very recently. So long as it hasn't it is an OC issue of people going somewhere they shouldn't be and doing something they shouldn't know how to do. Knowing how to do the levels as a roboticist is just as bad as a scientist doing robotics and should be taken up with staff if you see it happening.

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Restricting protolathes is dumb, as destructive analyzers are already restricted. Ahelp people who use destructive analyzers as robotics.

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18 minutes ago, kyres1 said:

Restricting protolathes is dumb, as destructive analyzers are already restricted. Ahelp people who use destructive analyzers as robotics.

How is the destructive analyzer meant to be restricted? Just rule wise or mechanically? Because I used it last shift, as a roboticist near round end to destroy a single item and get nanopaste.

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1 minute ago, Aphelion said:

How is the destructive analyzer meant to be restricted? Just rule wise or mechanically? Because I used it last shift, as a roboticist near round end to destroy a single item and get nanopaste.

by ahelping it

We don't have mechanical skills. This means players often have to take an active stance in dealing with problems they feel strongly about. If you feel strongly about it, ahelp it, seriously - nothing wrong will come of it.

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Just now, kyres1 said:

by ahelping it

We don't have mechanical skills. This means players often have to take an active stance in dealing with problems they feel strongly about. If you feel strongly about it, ahelp it, seriously - nothing wrong will come of it.

When I said mechanically, I meant the same way that Robotics machines are locked to anyone without Robotics access.

I'll probably ahelp it next time I see it tho, yeh.

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No no no, please. Roboticists need protolathe access so they can print the shit they need without having to always ask- sometimes they will hack in there and print themselves the nanopaste they need or the parts they need to upgrade their mechfabs to not be economically inefficient.

 

Also, you can already lock protolathes w/ the settings section of the research control console. Roboticists are allowed to use the protolathe to print shit, just not research though I do think that roboticists being unable to do any research is stupid because people usually do some research work before delving into the field of robotics or sometimes even both, but that's for another day

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3 hours ago, GreenBoi said:

though I do think that roboticists being unable to do any research is stupid because people usually do some research work before delving into the field of robotics or sometimes even both, but that's for another day

Boy suggesting cursed ideas like these is exactly the reason why I'm a fan of the "Either remove every role in research and replace it with Research Director and Scientist" or let the variety of roles remain but let people understand that their access is restricted even if your character has knowledge about another department or field of research.

I don't have anything against printing shit from the protolathe, it's something that has to be done often but you shouldn't be surprised when sec arrests you for it and you at the end get the 10 minute baby jail time. And believe me, Robotics can already turn into a stale mess when RnD isn't doing their job but imagine RnD doing their job but you being unable to do anything because they either refuse to let you access the protolathe for the stuff you need to save the same IPC who has been throwing himself as carps for 50 minutes straight or which can also happen hopefully not as commonly however, RnD refusing to give you any materials.

Down right restricting access to the Protolathe isn't a good solution at all and I would rather go in and suggest a shared protolathe so I don't have to bolt open the RnD door and use some like akin to "It broke".

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Restricting access is a fine idea. If a roboticist really wants to use the thing they can ask the HoP for increased access like every other role instead of just breaking in like a common antag.

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@ all the people saying that nanopaste/whatever is a must.

Medical needs chemicals in a similar fashion, but they very rarely break into chemistry to get them.

Perhaps making it actually possible to replace components in an IPC would be good, instead of making nanopaste the only way to fix robot organs.

Either way, it is very frustrating. 

The solution of placing the Protolathe in the hall basically removes the role of R&D entirely, the whole point of the game is on playerxplayer interactions and you shouldn't be able to get everything you want without interacting with anyone.

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RnD isn't cargo. Asking them for nanopaste and parts isn't much of interaction, it's a chore to get things done fast. Most of RnD is using the destructive analyzer and fiddling with whatever meme they can afford to get their hands on. If someone prints without you knowing, it's not really the end of the world unless they used a shit ton of mats. I see this as a non-issue and would rather have a more accessible protolathe.

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