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Gangstafary

[Player Complaint]Some AI player

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BYOND Key: (This is your Byond Login/Ckey) Gangstafary
Game ID: (If applicable. Game ID of the round on which the incident took place. If you don't remember the exact one, then the round after or the round before works as well.) b49-bNrd
Player Byond Key/Character name: (This is the Byond Login/Ckey or the character name of the player you are complaining. If you do not have it, we'll only provide it when the complaint is posted.) I don't know. Their discord username is aimlessAnalyst #4977 , they played as an AI in that round.
Staff involved: (This is if the complaint was ahelped and if it was handled by a staff member) Borya attended their ahelp and then opened a ticket for me.
Reason for complaint: (State your reason for your complaint) Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? (Yes or no, then an explanation for why not, if applicable.) No, it was the AI player who ahelped it. Borya dealt with it.

So, I want to be clear and concise cause I didn't really wanna do this but I can't stand when my benevolence is mocked, so if all this can be clear in a single or a few posts without revolving much around it, the better.

I was Fatima Tadhhab, Roboticist and traitor. As it's usual on me with this character, I go with some AI-subverting, synthetics-based gimmick. I usually just do it to help me further other goals so I usually add a "Obey X" or "X is the highest-ranking crewmember". I, however, this time decided to be innovative and not with those boring laws, so I worded a law for the AI to run a "Reality Show" broadcasted to the extranet and have nominations running, where the ones nominated to abandon the reality game were to "die" (they weren't even a malf AI to have such powers but the idea is understood).

Soon after, Borya opens a ticket for me, asking if I had some spare time to talk. I said "sure". So, seems like the AI player ahelped that they really didn't know what to do with what I gave them, or that outright they didn't like it (some of its cyborgs seemed to do though) so Borya wanted to know if we could reach a middle-ground which was fun and engaging for everyone. I was all in for it, and either way, security came to my lab asking me if I could reset the AI, and wanting to keep my cover, I complied. I told Borya that yes, although some cyborgs were enjoying the gimmick and participating in it. Overall they felt as if I was pushing a lot of a gimmick on their side, which even if I share that attitude, it's a thing they should accept as one of the things that can happen when you play as an AI. However, I was cool, I was lenient and in good sportmanship I didn't mind it and was in for the fun of everyone, so I told Borya that there were no need to adminly revert it since ICly I was about to get in the core with the HoS as to reset the AI.

So far, so good. The AI is reset, I play the rest of the round happily, the round ends and I leave for lunch. It is then when in Discord I find the aforementioned user mocking by alternating caps something on the lines of "oH I sUbVeRtEd AI to CaRrY gImMiCk fOr Me" (not literal, but you can get the picture), which surprises me seeing how I had no problem on giving on that (totally willing, since laws are laws and I could have not) and was all in for everyone to have fun, and the AI subvertion lasted quite little. Turns out someone was complaining exactly about "how they ruined the antag gimmick" in OOC at the round end and the user thought it was me, yet after I clarified, again via Discord, that it wasn't me, their passive-aggressiveness continued if not only turned into worst. Basically they kept acting as if they were a victim and I'm a guilty bad player. Like I hadn't made them a favour when agreeing to their terms instead of legitly just telling them to abide by their laws or either way not play AI. They even went onto the extent of insulting me.

So, now all is told, I'd like to finish with a final statement: This is the first player complaint I've ever made in something more than half a year of regularly playing here virtually a round every day, never filed an IR either. I've had issues, as everyone else has had, but never considered it was worth my time for a PC or IR respectively. However, I don't like my benevolence and good sportmanship being mocked and despised like that at all. Like a reasonable person, once I clarified this user that the one bitching in OOC at round-end wasn't me, I'd have expected something on the lines on "oh ok sorry thought it was you. Thanks for being approachable in my ahelp and being lenient for the fun of everyone", yet it was totally the opposite.

So, rather than growing a bitter attitude with virtually everyone and the next time something like this happens, instead of telling them to deal with it and abide to the laws, I'd rather to keep my good manners, good sportmanship and a good "spirit of the law" where the fun is above everything else, I'd prefer for the staff to have a talk with this player to make sure he keeps a positive attitude towards the rest, specially those who have been good with them.
Approximate Date/Time: (The date and time of the incident. Date is more important but both are helpful) 10/01/2020. The round ended at 14:12 pm GMT+1, although the real incident, that being their bad behaviour  took place on Discord at around 15:00 pm GMT+1

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Hi! Not handling this complaint but as the staff involved I guess I'll post and explain the situation from another perspective. I will refrain from giving my own judgement here and let the handling staff do the judging.

So upon getting the 0th law Aimless ahelps, saying they're confused by it. Now, let's see the law itself:

 

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8$!&. 0.- You are in charge of running a Reality Show with the crewmembers of the Aurora II. Display it to the public extranet and have nominations. People nominated to abandon the reality show must die. This law override all other laws. Do inform about the reality show taking place and its consequences.


While I personally see some ways of playing around this law, that was not the case for Aimless. They were very confused and uncomfortable being put on the spot like that as a non-antag, and didn't want to be the spotlight for whatever gimmick you had in mind(It would probably be for the best for you to clarify what you had in mind for the round, by the way).

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It is then when in Discord I find the aforementioned user mocking by alternating caps something on the lines of "oH I sUbVeRtEd AI to CaRrY gImMiCk fOr Me" (not literal, but you can get the picture),


Not quite true, actually. As has been clarified to you when you were present for the conversation in the general discord, they were talking about another player who has expressed grievances in a rather unelegant manner to Aimless in OOC. They assumed it was whoever hacked them, but upon being corrected, took their words back in your address.  What happened after was the fault of both parties keeping up the argument which had to be either moved here or to dm's, but neither of you did, for which you both received strikes.


 

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19 minutes ago, BoryaTheSlayer said:

Hi! Not handling this complaint but as the staff involved I guess I'll post and explain the situation from another perspective. I will refrain from giving my own judgement here and let the handling staff do the judging.

So upon getting the 0th law Aimless ahelps, saying they're confused by it. Now, let's see the law itself:

 


While I personally see some ways of playing around this law, that was not the case for Aimless. They were very confused and uncomfortable being put on the spot like that as a non-antag, and didn't want to be the spotlight for whatever gimmick you had in mind(It would probably be for the best for you to clarify what you had in mind for the round, by the way).


Not quite true, actually. As has been clarified to you when you were present for the conversation in the general discord, they were talking about another player who has expressed grievances in a rather unelegant manner to Aimless in OOC. They assumed it was whoever hacked them, but upon being corrected, took their words back in your address.  What happened after was the fault of both parties keeping up the argument which had to be either moved here or to dm's, but neither of you did, for which you both received strikes.


 

Not quite true, actually. You just quoted me but not until the end. Yes, I explain exactly that same things, as I quote myself now:  "Turns out someone was complaining exactly about "how they ruined the antag gimmick" in OOC at the round end and the user thought it was me, yet after I clarified, again via Discord, that it wasn't me, their passive-aggressiveness continued if not only turned into worst. Basically they kept acting as if they were a victim and I'm a guilty bad player. Like I hadn't made them a favour when agreeing to their terms instead of legitly just telling them to abide by their laws or either way not play AI. They even went onto the extent of insulting me."

So yes, I acknowledged that he was confusing me with other user, yet after I clarified I wasn't, their inflamatoriness didn't stop, and kept onto the extent where they insulted me, as you yourself acknowledged via Discord.

This PC is not about us receiving a strike on Discord, but about a continued bad attitude from this player towards me while, as you can attest too Borya, I had no issue with their ahelp. We tried to crop the law onto something they could deal with until we finally decided to omit it (as I did ICly). As I state, after they noticed I'm not the user who were complaining at round end, I'd have expected an apology, though what ensued were insults.

Do not confuse this with a complaint for not following AI laws. That was totally fine by me and I ended that round happily and then went for lunch. It is for bad behaviour and attitude via discord, even more since I was totally cool with their requests.

Edited by Gangstafary

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I do not really plan to post any further unless the handling staff members ask me to. As I stated, they took their words back, and what ensued after was really your initiation, as the topic of that conversation ended right there. I do not deny that Aimless is not at fault for what happened in discord, but it is also a rather big obfuscation of facts to fail to mention this sudden shift of the conversation in question.

It may not be about the strike in discord, but you still mentioned this incident in the complaint, hence me posting here and providing context.

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9 minutes ago, BoryaTheSlayer said:

I do not really plan to post any further unless the handling staff members ask me to. As I stated, they took their words back, and what ensued after was really your initiation, as the topic of that conversation ended right there. I do not deny that Aimless is not at fault for what happened in discord, but it is also a rather big obfuscation of facts to fail to mention this sudden shift of the conversation in question.

It may not be about the strike in discord, but you still mentioned this incident in the complaint, hence me posting here and providing context.

I never mentioned the strike in discord before you did. 

They insulted me, you saw it. You then explained an admin that we were insulting and arguing and I clarified that I hadn't insulted anyone, but they did to me, and you acknowledged that. Indeed you do not deny that Aimless is at fault for what happened in discord, and as I say in my final line on the opening thread, I only intend for this to reach a simple talk with the user as for their attittude, nothing more.

proof.jpg

Edited by Gangstafary

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Alright. I'm finally weighing in on this with my side of things, and starting off with an apology.

Because I know I was out of line to snap on you, even /if/ you weren't stopping when staff told you to, even /if/ it was uncalled for, even /if/ I had already given an apology.

Because that's what sane and mature people do, we apologize. I know I have issues. I get defensive way too easily, anything negative directed towards me makes it very dififcult for me to perceive anything but an attack. So I get defensive and I try to defend, accordingly. And when people keep jumping up my ass while I'm already trying to explain my side, I get upset and lash out because it /feels like you have me cornered/. It feels like you want something from me that I can't provide. It feels like you're tearing into me. And it's not fun. It's not what I play space for.

I know, in a way, that I act irrationally when this stuff happens. When everything piles on at once where I get several grievances, complaints, and people jumping up my ass over anything and everything in the span of a few days over tiny things. I feel like I get put under a microscope, and get stressed, shut down, and inevitably stop playing again because I can't wipe my own ass anymore without someone having an objection to it.

Around the end of my tenure as staff here a few years ago, I started having the same issue. And what I did then, was step down. Because I knew I wasn't in a spot where I could reasonably handle players when I felt like everyone wanted my ass skinned.

I usually try to ask people to stop pushing me before I hit a point where I know I'm not going to be able to bite back remarks anymore. I try to hold down and at /least/ lock down where I am, but when people inevitably keep jumping on me it gets harder and harder to /not/ snap on them and tell them to fuck off. You were told several times to stop and back off by multiple people in the discord, to my knowledge.

But you didn't. And I don't know why. I don't know what you wanted. I already apologized, I already retracted my remark that wasn't even directed towards you, but towards .pabst., who lashed out at me after I apologized in OOC for not knowing what to do with someone else's gimmick thrown at me. This doesn't feel at all like benevolence. It feels like active, thinly-veiled malice, and I am not the only one who's noticed. If you have to say you are being benevolent, you probably aren't.

But, all in all, I'm still sorry. What more do you want?

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I want to firstly apologize, a certain situation that I could not control has kept me away for some time after taking this complaint. 

So from what I can see, this is essentially solved from the discord perspective. Moderation interfered, tried to stop it, both sides didn't seem to stop and reprimands issued. Furthermore, the player in question is reiterating their apology. 

However, I want to point. This is the definition of benevolence. 

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the quality of being well meaning; kindness.

If you're being nice about it, there's really no need to throw words around about it and demanding recognition. The reward of kindness is for ones self, while recognition by the community is a possible product of how you act, it's not really set in stone or even a mandatory thing to do. The whole "I am benevolent" portrays a contrary image to a lot of people, including myself if I did not give you the benefit of doubt. This bit isn't really a reprimand but more of a outside perspective on this thing to consider for the future.

 

I will consider this resolved with no further actions put in place. I'll leave this open for a day or so if there's any other input.

 

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