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The Revolution Rework

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Posted (edited)

As of this PR, revolution has had a full reflavor and a few changes. You can see the PR here: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/8747

The changes as done in the PR are:

vn8VJNf.png.be5848e528aba7cc9a97068559735284.png The 'Revolutionaries' were renamed to -- q5DhKMJ.png.1345aec6c579da7c68719588ae462f56.png The 'Contenders', 

They're more or less the same as the revs used to be, except they're flavored to be much less antagonistic to the Crew, now with their name title and presentation it should be a lot easier to recruit Crew to the team.

ybCEGZq.png.a4632104e4e4ab0d4858c30a27a5f0c4.png The 'Loyalists' were renamed to -- JP2BT80.png.a0d260cb266a9f4a604964098c5585fb.png The 'Fellowship',

The Fellowship now gets access to the old Rev uplink, and they can no longer recruit mindshielded persons. They don't get a head by default in their team, either. These things put them on equal ground with the Contenders which should make neither of the two absolutely eclipse the other.

This serves to put the two teams on equal grounds and make for more open-ended rounds I hope, it should also fix the things that I see wrong with the mode, suggestions are welcome but reminder that I'm a fledgling coder so whatever you suggest can't be so complex or I'll likely not be able to implement it

On the upcoming rounds be sure to give me your feedback, I may make tweaks and stuff but just try to be conscious of how difficult your idea is to code, because if it's too difficult it might be beyond my skill range rn.

For the new faction icons, see:

6GFGHSn.png.5697e9de80b3ea0da49e0df0a6de6d9b.png

For the old thread that lead up to this PR, plus many of the reasons for the gameplay changes, see: here. However keep in mind that the thread is v. old and many of the complaints in 2019 aren't valid for rev in 2020.

Edited by Chada1

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1 minute ago, Menown said:

This rework has my support. AND MY AXE!

😆

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I'm curious to see how this goes, do share any results of test merges.

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Just now, Carver said:

I'm curious to see how this goes, do share any results of test merges.

Countless remakes, then three good iterations followed by two PRs that could have probably been one that aren't bad but aren't all that great. Also one PR will have a pointless romance subplot.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Carver said:

I'm curious to see how this goes, do share any results of test merges.

Won't be any test merges, it's just fully merged. But I'm still waiting to hear results of afew rev rounds to figure out if I need to tweak anything. The first round I've heard about was promising, they said they liked it a looot more than regular rev. We'll see if that holds up after several more rounds, tho.

Edited by Chada1

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I've had about five or so rounds of rev with this new system in place. You've basically managed to rework rev into a game mode wherein both sides focus on designing a small, self contained narrative rather than validing each other.

Because security and command are not intrinsic to one of the sides(and the HoS/Captain cannot pick a side), it means that security is less likely to manhunt, and are more concerned with stopping everyone from killing each other. Rounds are more likely to turn into three way chaos fests involving the contenders, fellowship, and station authority. It becomes even better when you mix additional antag types into the round. AOOC during Rev rounds is constantly buzzing with where the story should be taken next. I'm running into more and more rev rounds that feel like micro events because of this. It's great.

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1 hour ago, Boggle08 said:

I've had about five or so rounds of rev with this new system in place. You've basically managed to rework rev into a game mode wherein both sides focus on designing a small, self contained narrative rather than validing each other.

Because security and command are not intrinsic to one of the sides(and the HoS/Captain cannot pick a side), it means that security is less likely to manhunt, and are more concerned with stopping everyone from killing each other. Rounds are more likely to turn into three way chaos fests involving the contenders, fellowship, and station authority. It becomes even better when you mix additional antag types into the round. AOOC during Rev rounds is constantly buzzing with where the story should be taken next. I'm running into more and more rev rounds that feel like micro events because of this. It's great.

I'm extremely extremely happy to hear you enjoy it, and I'm hoping it continues to hold up for other players. So far it's looking v. good 🎊

But this means I need feedback from more people more than ever to confirm everything I attempted to do (Nearly everything you just typed) is working as intended 👀

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The Unknown Thesis on Chada1's The Revolution Rework

By UnknownMurder

May 16, 2020

I would like to say some positive words before jumping ahead and speak of future roadmaps that may be either existent or nonexistent. @Chada1 has done a very admirable movement to rework a game mode that everyone complains of being broken, developers 'not touching it', or have gone far enough to say "if you want to fix it, fix it then". It is very rare for Chada1 to complain, instead of complaining, he takes upon a huge responsibility to change something that has been around for a half decade and created into something that no one has created before. This is an act of well deserved respect and deserves a top notch thesis on his project. Seemingly no one has responded to his project thread, Chada1 has requested me to feedback on his project and so I shall do so with my utmost respect and everlasting relationship him. I do not choose to write this thesis for no reason but I choose to do so because Chada1 has been a friend with me since our first interaction on December 26th, 2016 (nearly half a decade, my old friend). 

The success of the latest patch soared across the skies and pierced the heavens. This laid out and gave a new age gave birth, birth to a new twisted gamemode revolution - a battlefield revolution. This revolution is no longer steered by the Space Station 13's past or even it's will. The project recreated a new gamemode without substance. In the past, we have had defined objectives to flexible defined objectives to player defined objectives where is our current position at the moment. However, a flaw remains to be seen. Chada1 and I had a productive discussion about this in Aurora Station's official discord. Before the revolution patch was applied, the problem was there was a general unwritten "rule" by groupthink that Captain and Head of Security must become a loyalist because they had Loyalist Implants/Mindshield Implants serve as a role more important than other command staffs during revolution game round, and tend to have direct access, communication, and authorization with Security Department. Also, because of Head of Security and/or Captain leading the Security Department, it became a general concept that security personnel should also become a loyalist to enforce Central Command's orders, to do the job they were paid to do. This was realistically easy due to most security personnel were either waived because of two big repeated reasons throughout entire many revolution game modes: to target others before targeting yourself or you weren't among the target so why bother revolting? There were also another problem that revolution round repeated the same path over and over, and players have already gotten bored of it. After the latest patch, Chada1 has achieved the endgame goal of eliminating the problem. 

Ladies and gentlemen, we're in the endgame now. The problem is eliminated. There are no such thing is Loyalists or Revolutionaries and is instead replaced with Fellowship and Contenders. When the latest patch was applied, people had difficulty understanding and communicating with each other in AOOC. Most of the AOOC conversation relates more to "who does what". Sometimes, these AOOC conversation have several conflicts such as "Oh, I can't do that. I'm suppose to be enforcing this but I'm targeting myself."  I've heard these repeated conflicts. This is the endgame problem #1. The endgame problem #2 is this is no longer about the revolution but to more of ideology vs. ideology or relates to the true Spy vs. Spy on Nintendo Entertainment System, to eliminate your opponents before they eliminate you. The endgame problem #2 may in the later years encourage specific party/people not to recruit but instead ally up and attempt to create their own gimmick. 

I've come up with one idea that may solve the the two endgame problems that we are in. One idea would be to show optional pre-defined objectives that the antagonists could work together to decide on that allows for a smoother transition to starting the round. The two potential limitations, one limitation imposed on the player's imagination to do creative and innovative things. Forced pre-defined objectives is something that the playerbase would be wholly against. The other limitations is non-compliance and/or compromise between the two antagonist parties. The antagonist party A wants gimmick A but antagonist party B does not like the gimmick A but wants gimmick B. They cannot reach a compromise and drag antagonist's actual start time to do their gimmick into 15-30 minutes in. A name change for this game mode is also needed, this is no longer "revolution" game mode. Truly, when you solve a problem, another problem comes up. Then you solve problem again but another problem comes up. And then you fix that problem, and then another problem shows up, and so on and so forth. What a vicious lifecycle we are in. We all are entrapped in it, there is no solution to everything in Space Station 13. This is not the only idea but it is one idea that may help us overcome this obstacle.

This is my thesis. 

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15 hours ago, UnknownMurder said:

The Unknown Thesis on Chada1's The Revolution Rework

By UnknownMurder

May 16, 2020

I would like to say some positive words before jumping ahead and speak of future roadmaps that may be either existent or nonexistent. @Chada1 has done a very admirable movement to rework a game mode that everyone complains of being broken, developers 'not touching it', or have gone far enough to say "if you want to fix it, fix it then". It is very rare for Chada1 to complain, instead of complaining, he takes upon a huge responsibility to change something that has been around for a half decade and created into something that no one has created before. This is an act of well deserved respect and deserves a top notch thesis on his project. Seemingly no one has responded to his project thread, Chada1 has requested me to feedback on his project and so I shall do so with my utmost respect and everlasting relationship him. I do not choose to write this thesis for no reason but I choose to do so because Chada1 has been a friend with me since our first interaction on December 26th, 2016 (nearly half a decade, my old friend). 

The success of the latest patch soared across the skies and pierced the heavens. This laid out and gave a new age gave birth, birth to a new twisted gamemode revolution - a battlefield revolution. This revolution is no longer steered by the Space Station 13's past or even it's will. The project recreated a new gamemode without substance. In the past, we have had defined objectives to flexible defined objectives to player defined objectives where is our current position at the moment. However, a flaw remains to be seen. Chada1 and I had a productive discussion about this in Aurora Station's official discord. Before the revolution patch was applied, the problem was there was a general unwritten "rule" by groupthink that Captain and Head of Security must become a loyalist because they had Loyalist Implants/Mindshield Implants serve as a role more important than other command staffs during revolution game round, and tend to have direct access, communication, and authorization with Security Department. Also, because of Head of Security and/or Captain leading the Security Department, it became a general concept that security personnel should also become a loyalist to enforce Central Command's orders, to do the job they were paid to do. This was realistically easy due to most security personnel were either waived because of two big repeated reasons throughout entire many revolution game modes: to target others before targeting yourself or you weren't among the target so why bother revolting? There were also another problem that revolution round repeated the same path over and over, and players have already gotten bored of it. After the latest patch, Chada1 has achieved the endgame goal of eliminating the problem. 

Ladies and gentlemen, we're in the endgame now. The problem is eliminated. There are no such thing is Loyalists or Revolutionaries and is instead replaced with Fellowship and Contenders. When the latest patch was applied, people had difficulty understanding and communicating with each other in AOOC. Most of the AOOC conversation relates more to "who does what". Sometimes, these AOOC conversation have several conflicts such as "Oh, I can't do that. I'm suppose to be enforcing this but I'm targeting myself."  I've heard these repeated conflicts. This is the endgame problem #1. The endgame problem #2 is this is no longer about the revolution but to more of ideology vs. ideology or relates to the true Spy vs. Spy on Nintendo Entertainment System, to eliminate your opponents before they eliminate you. The endgame problem #2 may in the later years encourage specific party/people not to recruit but instead ally up and attempt to create their own gimmick. 

I've come up with one idea that may solve the the two endgame problems that we are in. One idea would be to show optional pre-defined objectives that the antagonists could work together to decide on that allows for a smoother transition to starting the round. The two potential limitations, one limitation imposed on the player's imagination to do creative and innovative things. Forced pre-defined objectives is something that the playerbase would be wholly against. The other limitations is non-compliance and/or compromise between the two antagonist parties. The antagonist party A wants gimmick A but antagonist party B does not like the gimmick A but wants gimmick B. They cannot reach a compromise and drag antagonist's actual start time to do their gimmick into 15-30 minutes in. A name change for this game mode is also needed, this is no longer "revolution" game mode. Truly, when you solve a problem, another problem comes up. Then you solve problem again but another problem comes up. And then you fix that problem, and then another problem shows up, and so on and so forth. What a vicious lifecycle we are in. We all are entrapped in it, there is no solution to everything in Space Station 13. This is not the only idea but it is one idea that may help us overcome this obstacle.

This is my thesis. 

 

Alright so you're definitely right on most of this, I'll go by it paragraph by paragraph and explain my intention and thoughts and stuff.

Paragraph 1: Thank you v. much for the praise and stuff and yup it's true we've been friends p. much from day 1 👀.

Paragraph 2-3: I'm glad I managed to fix the problem, I hope it stays fixed and I'm v. glad you like the new changes, it's true that it's more of ideology 1 vs Ideology 1 opposers instead of an actual revolution, and it's true that in a vacuum with no roleplay, normally, it'd be identical to spy vs spy (One team fighting another team using the same equipment), but it's not ideally meant to be that at all, it's supposed to go like, one team creates a gimmick, and the other team just acts in opposition to that gimmick and fans the flames (The fellows make the gimmick, the contenders oppose the fellows). So far the feedback on this has been p. good but it does make that new endgame problem more defined.

Paragraph 4: This issue is one that has existed in old rev too, and in multiple other modes, and is a p. long-time stay of HRP Antagging in general I think, it's the difficulty in actually having a defined gimmick,  or finding a good reason to revolt, or deciding why your character is even doing this antagonistic thing. I think this could work as a solution but has a roadblock to it, the hard part is figuring out how to implement objectives in a way that doesn't lead to the same ole' thing of constant reoccurring rev rounds which this is partially intended to solve. I'll look into how the objectives work and maybe hooking the Fellows to it, and then maybe giving the Contenders something neat similar to it like what they suspect of the Fellows or something. But unless I find a good way to do it it's a problem I can't really solve. If anyone else has any ideas or you have any new ones, please post.

Also thank you V much for the feedback. 👀

 

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