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DanseMacabre's Human Lore Deputy Application


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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, stev said:

Firstly, he is highly selective when receiving feedback he's asked for. I and many others have given feedback on his Visegrad lore canonisation application when asked, only to be told that negative feedback and criticisms aren't valid or worth addressing (usually just responded to with 'Okay' and moved on from). While I can understand this if the feedback is shitty and unconstructive, all negative feedback about his writing is treated this way, leading to him claiming that "no-one has given negative feedback on Visegrad" despite multiple people have given constructive criticism after being asked - much of this feedback even comes back to the same points of criticism, yet is still not addressed in any way. I think it's a fairly unambiguous red flag when all criticism that could be interpreted as negative is ignored and called 'LRP criticism', whatever that even means.

I am going to be very brief in addressing Memescope's points, for personal reasons relating to my interactions with them. Regarding this point, Memescope is invoking a discussion that occurred. I am not going to offer my thoughts on the matter, as I do not feel it necessary: I encourage everyone here to take a look at what was said themselves. Here is a link to the discussion: https://discord.com/channels/724651070017765459/724653076866400336/813122261304999946 - this is in the lore discord, so you will have to be in it to see it. In my opinion, I do nothing wrong in this interaction, and Memescope/VT are clearly out of line in how they approach the discussion and the "feedback" they give. - with the latter having a successful player complaint lodged against them for their actions. I am biased, however.

2 hours ago, stev said:

Secondly, I'm going to echo others and say that his general conduct and behaviour is, for the most part, quite negative. Half of what I see from him in lore discords and other public channels is just non-stop ragging on areas of lore he deems subpar (see constant 'remove Dominia', 'remove Diona', 'remove all aliens', etc.). While he claims that this is just jokes, it is absolutely constant and often the only thing you really see from him. I find this especially dodgy with the context of my point on response to criticism, as he constantly "jokes" about removing everything but Sol while disregarding anything the slightest bit negative about his own projects.

Words are being put into my mouth here. This is a flagrant exaggeration at best, in my opinion. I have never claimed that I want to "remove everything but Sol".

2 hours ago, stev said:

Finally, as others have more eloquently talked about, is the clear Solarian bias and nonstop OOC stanning whenever it comes up. Yes, I know Danse has claimed this is a joke, but he's never stopped doing it, either. This kinda broadly covers a lot of stuff, it's not as big a concern as the other two points, but it's still a significant portion of what they post and I'd be concerned that this bias might lead to proposed lore rewrites just making Sol bigger and cooler and stronger and everyone else weaker. 

The only thing I feel that needs to be addressed here is the idea that I will somehow advocate to turning my preferred faction into a behemoth that cannot be stopped. Anyone who knows me knows that despite the fact I enjoy Sol as a faction, I have no intention on trying to-- somehow-- make it dominate the setting. I think the fact I enjoyed and frequently applaud the arc depicting its violent collapse and anarchic warlordism to be evidence of that.

Edited by DanseMacabre
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3 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

Could you elaborate either here or in Visegrad's canonization application page what exactly you mean by "conventional sci-fi tropes"-- alternatively, I am willing to talk about this in my DMs? Because I have no idea what you could be referring to, here. Elaboration is absolutely necessary when you make such sweeping-yet-vague claims. Regardless, Visegrad is just one example in my body of work, and I think your concerns might be abated if you took a look at the rest of what I've done.

I believe a mark of a good staff member is a willingness to discuss non-sensitive matters with complete transparency, and as such, I will be continuing the discussion here. As for my remarks on convention, it is a common practice in sci-fi to design worlds from the top-down, that is, with ultimately minimal regard for the culture, which as mentioned, is the core of what allows interesting characters to be created. What cultural aspects are present in such settings are often revolved around their minor habits and do not influence their views of other groups beyond their own planet(I cannot imagine the Homesteader-Urbanite divide affecting a character's interactions with non-Visegradians, for example). This is the impression I get from the planets posted within this application. In addition, while basing a planet off of an already existing Earth culture is a common practice and one I approve of in most situations, it must be allowed to be shaped by the circumstances of the future society.

Sometimes, stepping away from the most realistic path is what makes a sci-fi setting truly resonate in the minds of the audience.

18 minutes ago, DanseMacabre said:

This is clearly an edgy joke taken out of context from an unofficial discord and I do not understand the relevancy at all to this application.

The question this brought up in my head is why you'd make such a joke in the first place, where it could be seen by people who would feel it's in poor taste and a direct indictment against who they are. And I do believe it is extremely relevant to this application. As a lore deputy, you are part of the staffand this means that you are one of the faces of what this community is. Does it reflect well on the server as a whole when a staff member is known for saying things such as this?

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I'll say that my first experience with Danse was neutral, to the point of degrading. Especially because of the concerns that people have shared. From perhaps misplaced jokes to seemingly passive-aggressive replies which might be the restul of mistranslation to text.

 

HOWEVER, I will say that my opinion of him has changed tremenduously as time went on. I've seen him put sweat and tears in working on lore apps, PRs or at laest attempt to contribute to the server's lore and atmosphere. He really shows a tenacity to work hard for what he believes to be right, and sure what he might consider to be right isn't always what anyone wants, but with a competent team besides him I'm sure he could make additions and work around to get a middle ground sorted. He has proven to be a team player from my perspective. It may not say alot, but I do ask people to take this into consideration besides the opinions they may share of him.

I'll give it a +1 personally. I'm sure the cons that have been stressed out thus far can be ironed out once he's made part of the team.

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Right, in the name of full disclosure, I'm only posting my thoughts here because I was asked to.  I don't much like posting on the forums very much (I'm much more active and available on discord, even if I mostly lurk in the Aurora discords) due in large part to rarely feeling like I have anything worthwhile to say.  So, because of that, I'm going to try and come up with some worthwhile things to say and to ask.

My opinions on Danse are somewhat complicated: I haven't had the negative interactions with him I am aware many people have had.  I've seen some of those interactions play out, so I know they exist, but I don't really think Danse and myself have had any particularly bad exchanges.  I definitely don't agree with Danse on a lot of topics, some of them very dear to my heart, but the impression I get from Danse is that he's someone who cares about other people's opinions.  He's been vocal in the past about despising echo chambers and I'm pretty sure if five other people agreed with him on a topic he'd seriously reconsider it on those grounds alone.  I definitely think that he can be abrasive and confrontational at times, whether he means to or is even aware of how he's coming across.  I think Danse values the existence of differing opinions; I once watched him help a friend of mine learn how to make a PR on GitHub only to downvote that same PR because he didn't agree with its purpose.  He definitely cares a LOT about lore, and I usually expect rounds where he rolls antagonist to deeply involve some aspect of the lore in his RP.  There are current lore-writers that I can't say I have the same experience with.  I'm personally rather fond of some of his ideas he's linked in this thread, so I would definitely say he has some talent as a writer.  I think Danse genuinely cares a lot about the way people think of him, perhaps too much at times.  I don't think he's very good at dealing with people not liking him or his work, which could be a problem as a lore writer.

Is this rambling paragraph going anywhere?  Plausibly.

Danse asked me to reply to this thread, so here I am.  I have positive and negative impressions of the man.  There are good and bad things I could say about him, depending on what you ask me about.  Do I feel comfortable saying one way or the other whether I think he could make a good lore writer?  Not yet.  I don't feel like I know him particularly well, and I've only been in this community for a little over a year now.  I'm sure a lot of people have more useful opinions to offer on the topic of Danse, but I think it's worth considering his application at the very least.  I think it deserves some careful thought by someone much smarter than me about whether or not he's suited for the position.

All that said, here are some questions for the man himself.  Pardon me if they've already been asked and answered.

  1. You've expressed some concerns that people might think you want to be a human lore writer to push your V-Planet agenda.  If you were to become a lore writer, would you make an effort to have Visegrad officially canonized?  If not, why?
  2. One of your talents is creating compelling antagonist gimmicks, usually during mercenary rounds.  Do you have any ideas in mind for event arcs (mini or otherwise) you could organize for the server to make use of that skill?
  3. You've said on multiple occasions that you're not particularly interested in megacorp lore.  What do you think is the problem with megacorps in lore, and how can it be addressed?
  4. Do you think you could handle it well if you made a change to lore that became widely disliked by the playerbase?  What would you do if that happened?
  5. How willing are you to work on PRs for parts of the lore that you don't particularly like, if it would further the lore team's efforts?

I think with those questions answered, I'd be more comfortable giving the question of "Do I, Chevy the Chevron, think that Danse McAubrey should be given a position on the lore team as human lore deputy?" a definitive answer.

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19 minutes ago, ChevyChevron said:

 

  1. You've expressed some concerns that people might think you want to be a human lore writer to push your V-Planet agenda.  If you were to become a lore writer, would you make an effort to have Visegrad officially canonized?  If not, why?
  2. One of your talents is creating compelling antagonist gimmicks, usually during mercenary rounds.  Do you have any ideas in mind for event arcs (mini or otherwise) you could organize for the server to make use of that skill?
  3. You've said on multiple occasions that you're not particularly interested in megacorp lore.  What do you think is the problem with megacorps in lore, and how can it be addressed?
  4. Do you think you could handle it well if you made a change to lore that became widely disliked by the playerbase?  What would you do if that happened?
  5. How willing are you to work on PRs for parts of the lore that you don't particularly like, if it would further the lore team's efforts?

1. I have no intentions to use my position to push Visegrad in any regard. I intend to allow the canonization application to play out as it would otherwise-- if the Human lore team (bar me) wishes to have it canonized, so be it - I would involve myself in that process if requested. In summation, Visegrad does not factor into this application in any factor except as an example of my ability as a writer.

2. I'm glad you would consider it a talent! I do think that in a way it could factor into the development of events, but I cannot be absolutely certain - I have no experience with running events, after all. Ultimately I do think my ideas aren't going anywhere, and I could absolutely see myself trying to put some of my thoughts into action in that regard.

3. It isn't that I am not interested in megacorp lore - The issue is that I think megacorporations as a science-fiction trope/theme are uninteresting foundationally. I do think the best way to go about making a megacorporation interesting is by, ironically, making it feel less like a corporation. I point to Idris in this regard - I love Idris because it feels less like the corporation, and more like the mafia. It is more akin to an Italian banking dynasty in the Renaissance than it is to Chiquita bananas. I think this dynamic could be pushed for the rest of the megacorporations: all from a different angle.

4. Something like this is ultimately dependent on the situation. Things that are necessary may be widely disliked - ultimately, I think I could handle the flak. As far as handling it is concerned, I think I'd factor in the feedback that the playerbase gives and then confer with the rest of the Human lore team. Mistakes can be made - and obviously if something is unpopular with the community at large, steps should be made to fix that - be it edits, a major change to whatever's the problem, or even a retcon in extreme cases.
5. I'm not really a coder (the work I've done is largely copypasting), but I'm ultimately willing to work with the other lore teams in whatever way's necessary, to better the server at large.

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Posted (edited)

Wow this application sure got a lot of attention. So I'll keep my post brief because people already have enough to read for a full view on the situation.

I know Danse is incredibly passionate about both Aurora and the lore behind the server. More than 99% of people I know well on the server I would say. I think it's awesome to see and I know that they would put in a mile and more as a lore deputy. As someone who has mostly coalition characters among the human ones I play I would love to see the Coalition as a overall entity gain more depth and detail as it is something sorely lacking right now. I never made a character from the coalition because of the coalition, but the planets within it instead. I'm excited to see what they write and do if they do become a lore deputy. 

As for a lot of the comments made about Danses character and behaviour. I've known Danse for a long time across multiple servers. I think they have a tendency to not hold back and be honest about what they say, and don't sugarcoat it in cases. However, I think that they can bring this under control if they were a member of staff and act professionally as I have seen them do in the past myself. I think they're more than capable of working with people well regardless of their personal opinions on them. As I have seen before too. I also don't think Danse has any true dislike for anyone in Aurora, Everyone can have frustrations or make crass jokes but Danse deep down has only ever shown himself to be a nice, honest and normal guy who doesn't have the desire to actually hate anyone over a 2d spaceman game.

Overall, I will happily +1 Danse's app. But that is primarily because I have seen him in a staff role before in other places and worked alongside him to a small extent and I believe that he is perfectly capable of changing his demeanour to being far more professional and polite along with making peace with those who might dislike him 

Edited by SilverSZ
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Hi.

I want to preface that I have known Danse for a very long time, and have seen him in a few different servers. First and foremost, there has been a lot of attention to Danse's conduct in this thread by various people, and I want to state that from my experiences and discussions with him he has shown to be an incredibly level headed and respectable person. Generally speaking, I tend to see people pick apart things that he says that are almost certainly intended to be jokes, which doesn't seem at all to be a good spirited thing to do. I am also extremely positive that he's capable of conducting himself in a manner more befitting of a professional if he was required to. Overall, I do not at all think he's a bad person, and I can definitely picture him in a staff position.

Secondly, I do not think theres any question to Danse's talent as a writer. He is extremely passionate about both the server and its lore, and I can only see him doing good things with the title of human lore deputy.

 

This gets a +1 from me. Best of luck to you.

 

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Posted (edited)

I was originally going to wait a bit longer before providing my own thoughts and critiques to your application, as I believed it would take a decent while to get a few responses. Lo and behold, I wake up to see that this thread has more activity in 12 hours than most applications have in weeks or months of being up, so I believe the time is right for me to enter. I will pose my responses to your answers in a format that will address my thoughts on each of your responses respectively, and provide a miscellaneous section at the bottom of those 6 critiques.

  1.  I laud your enthusiasm that you show for the lore of our setting. I don't doubt your passion or love for the stories and backgrounds we have on our server that allow for players to play as they please and make brilliant, loveable, or hateable characters. I have no doubt that you are a very spirited person in regards to your thoughts on the lore as well, and I appreciate how you try and show that in your application. However, you do not directly answer the second part of question one in your response. Passion for the lore is certainly an asset, but its not something that is entirely unique. I would be disappointed in an applicant if they applied and did not have a great passion for the lore of the Aurora. Why do you think that this passion that you have is something that can make you a better pick than the rest of our applicants, or if not this passion, what other element? Please do not make direct comparisons to other applicants in your response, but rather highlight what makes you a unique candidate.
     
  2. In your second response you refer to the diversity of Humanity being one of the things that you enjoy best about the depiction of the species in our lore. I agree, this is something that I too adore about the lore and something that I have only expanded upon since I became the maintainer for Human Lore. A common critique to human lore however, and one that I am not entirely deaf to, is that Human Lore's diversity is as much a hinderance than a I help in some circumstances, as some in the community and lore team proper, have pointed out that many planets/locations inhabited by Humanity are gimmicky, unnecessary/add nothing, or in their essence are in fact, not believable, for whatever reason. I point this out because you also mention believability as something that you enjoy about our depiction of humanity. What is your response to that say that humanity is in fact too diverse, or has too many locations, and needs instead to more thoroughly develop the ones already existing, rather than seek to expand the diversity of Humanity? It is just a fact that Humanity has four factions, and upwards of thirty locations, some of which have entirely distinctive sublocations in them, while the closest species in terms of named separate locations is Skrell, with less than ten, and some species do not even have a territorial presence on the StarMap.
     
  3. Onto your third response. I agree that humanity's timeline needs clarification and is actually something that we in the human team are already trying to rectify. I have no further comments on that aspect of your response, because, yes it is a black and white issue that needs redressing. In the second third of this response however you critique the Coalition by saying its boring, and needs further development and detail for what the Coalition itself is. I think this is one vision or interpretation for what the coalition may be, but as you have mentioned, the focus is typically on the planets themselves, rather than the Coalition proper. The diversity of the planets, something you were keen on in question two, is to some, the key element or aspect of the Coalition and elaborating more on the Government of the planet is tantamount to elaborating more onto the individual planets in the Coalition because it is those planets that make up the government, and in some cases, have precedence over it in interstellar relations. How do you see this interpretation of vision and direction for the CoC and how do you think that your ideas could potentially work with it, if at all? I also agree that the Techno Conglomerate needs love, and much like the timeline, it is a project we are trying to work through already.
     
  4. In saying how to "fix," the Coalition, I am somewhat confused. You make some ideas for how to do so in your third response, however, the answers here are rather vague. In fixing the Coalition, how would you attempt to do so aside from just writing more about its government. Its no small secret in the community that you quite enjoy the lore around the Sol Alliance, to varying degrees of irony, and this leads me to think that you may want to make the Coalition more like Sol, in that it has large sections penned on its government style and military, when the Coalition is both in a literal sense in the lore along with a metaphorical sense in principle, the opposite and enemy of the Alliance. How do you intend on fixing the CoC in ways that do not potentially mirror styles or techniques used in other settings in our lore? I agree that if fixing the Coalition were done, it would be a great task, so I would suggest it be treated with as much originality as possible in order to preserve the unique identity and flavour that the it holds in our lore.
     
  5. I am pleased to see that you believe that you can work in a team. While I think that I could work with you well, I have some doubts that you may be able to fulfil the community functions of a Lore Deputy in a team setting. As evident by the large number of responses questioning your character for various incidents in the past, you are certainly not the most popular of candidates and have some in the community who would disapprove of you holding this position and vocally so. How, in your opinion, do you think that you could both be a proactive member of our lore team in regards to community functions, while also not letting your reputation among some in the community damage your ability to interact with the playerbase to the standards held by the staff and the lore team? Do you think that this unpopularity or disapproval in the community would negatively effect your ability to produce lore at the rate and to the quality expected by the lore team, and if so, how would you attempt to rectify the situation? Similarly, there will be times when I as the Maintainer, a Loremaster, or even an Admin, will disapprove of your ideas and either highly edit them or reject them outright, even if they may have taken good work, or be personally significant to you. Do you believe that you can accept these as they come and proceed in the lore team without grudge towards superiors in higher staff, and if this becomes a problem, how do you think that it would be best for you to handle things in that situation?
     
  6. I have no concerns about prior disciplinary history here.

    Misc: You have a planet which you have been hoping to canonise for the better part of a year, and you have provided it as your writing sample. Its well known to both the lore team along with the community at large, that you care very deeply about this planet, and have it as a passion project. I can understand the amounts of love and care that go into creating and curating such a place, however, I would be ignorant to my own thoughts if part of me did not wonder if you are seeking this position for purposes of canonising that planet or for furthering other personal projects to a monocular degree. I know that you are passionate about the lore of our server in general, however, I also know that you are a person who is passionate about his own projects as well. Please elaborate on your application as it relates to Visegrad, and furthermore, how Visegrad plays into your vision for a potential tenure as a Human Lore Deputy.

    That is all. I look forwards to your responses.
Edited by TheBurninSherman
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Quote

 

What is your stance on humanity involving themselves in cross-species interaction?

Following the above question, what game plans would you want to implement in regards to humanity and other species? If possible, please do touch on all the species. 

Do you have any plans you'd want to see implemented in regards to either Mictlan or Eridani? 

 

There are no wrong answers, just me wanting to get to know your opinions and future plans should you become a member of the Lore Team. Goodluck. 

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I've had positive interactions with danse in the few times we've spoken OOC. Overall from what ive seen of them on the forums I think they have a good vision, and their description of their plans and answers here only reinforces that belief. I also think having someone as motivated working on human lore would be a great assets for the community. so a big +1 from me.

 

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Hello DanseMacabre... x2

Becoming the lore deputy, you are likely to be assigned various tasks for you to do. You may have a choice in this, or you may not. Sometimes you will be able to write what you want, but other times you are going to be forced to write about things you may not be the most passionate about or things that you were not expecting to write about.

Would you be willing to write about things that aren't necessarily outlined in your application--even if you don't really want to write about these things? I understand you dislike the concept of Megacorporations in general when it comes to sci-fi; however, you may have to include corporate influences in your planets or write things exclusively relating to megacorporations. Would you still do this, even if it goes against your idea of what makes lore good?

Would you take it well if ideas you think would be good for the setting get shot down immediately? Often times, as a deputy, you may have ideas for things, and though they may be considered, your loremaster may shoot them down without that idea even seeing the light of day. I'm not saying this will be the rule, but it is probably going to happen. Are you fine with your ideas being deferred to fit the loremaster's vision? 

 

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Posted (edited)

Hello, and thank you for applying for the position of human lore deputy! For better or for worse there have already been quite a lot of questions asked in this thread. As my colleague, Lain, has already gone over your responses to our questions quite thoroughly I won't be responding to your responses individually. Instead I'll be asking some questions of my own below in bullet point format. Remember that there are no right or wrong responses, and to simply fill out the question to the best of your ability. Please attempt to keep individual responses roughly one to two paragraphs long.

  • A great amount of your writing seems to focus on "technical" aspects of lore such as economics, government structures, and the military with comparatively less space devoted to society and culture. A lot of our planets (for example: Luna, Venus, Silversun, NHP, etc.) tend to devote a large amount to society and culture or weave together society and culture with more technical aspects, such as how Silversun's cultural divide is intrinsically tied to Idris' economic presence. If you are hired as our deputy, how do you intend to balance the technical and cultural aspects of your written lore?
  • You've mentioned that you have an interest in reworking/retouching the Coalition, a part of the lore that you feel is boring, but you don't offer a lot regarding the how of your rework instead if the why. Your response is also a bit too limited in scope -- the Coalition is one of our largest lore entities, and reworking it will be a very big prospect. Could you expand upon which areas of the Coalition you'd like to examine and focus on in order to achieve your goal? Additionally are there any areas outside the Coalition you'd like to focus on?

Again, thank you for your interest in applying! I am eagerly looking forward to reading your responses.

Edited by NewOriginalSchwann
Corrections, cutting a question.
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On 18/05/2021 at 06:55, TheBurninSherman said:

 

Spoiler

 

I was originally going to wait a bit longer before providing my own thoughts and critiques to your application, as I believed it would take a decent while to get a few responses. Lo and behold, I wake up to see that this thread has more activity in 12 hours than most applications have in weeks or months of being up, so I believe the time is right for me to enter. I will pose my responses to your answers in a format that will address my thoughts on each of your responses respectively, and provide a miscellaneous section at the bottom of those 6 critiques.

  1.  I laud your enthusiasm that you show for the lore of our setting. I don't doubt your passion or love for the stories and backgrounds we have on our server that allow for players to play as they please and make brilliant, loveable, or hateable characters. I have no doubt that you are a very spirited person in regards to your thoughts on the lore as well, and I appreciate how you try and show that in your application. However, you do not directly answer the second part of question one in your response. Passion for the lore is certainly an asset, but its not something that is entirely unique. I would be disappointed in an applicant if they applied and did not have a great passion for the lore of the Aurora. Why do you think that this passion that you have is something that can make you a better pick than the rest of our applicants, or if not this passion, what other element? Please do not make direct comparisons to other applicants in your response, but rather highlight what makes you a unique candidate.
     
  2. In your second response you refer to the diversity of Humanity being one of the things that you enjoy best about the depiction of the species in our lore. I agree, this is something that I too adore about the lore and something that I have only expanded upon since I became the maintainer for Human Lore. A common critique to human lore however, and one that I am not entirely deaf to, is that Human Lore's diversity is as much a hinderance than a I help in some circumstances, as some in the community and lore team proper, have pointed out that many planets/locations inhabited by Humanity are gimmicky, unnecessary/add nothing, or in their essence are in fact, not believable, for whatever reason. I point this out because you also mention believability as something that you enjoy about our depiction of humanity. What is your response to that say that humanity is in fact too diverse, or has too many locations, and needs instead to more thoroughly develop the ones already existing, rather than seek to expand the diversity of Humanity? It is just a fact that Humanity has four factions, and upwards of thirty locations, some of which have entirely distinctive sublocations in them, while the closest species in terms of named separate locations is Skrell, with less than ten, and some species do not even have a territorial presence on the StarMap.
     
  3. Onto your third response. I agree that humanity's timeline needs clarification and is actually something that we in the human team are already trying to rectify. I have no further comments on that aspect of your response, because, yes it is a black and white issue that needs redressing. In the second third of this response however you critique the Coalition by saying its boring, and needs further development and detail for what the Coalition itself is. I think this is one vision or interpretation for what the coalition may be, but as you have mentioned, the focus is typically on the planets themselves, rather than the Coalition proper. The diversity of the planets, something you were keen on in question two, is to some, the key element or aspect of the Coalition and elaborating more on the Government of the planet is tantamount to elaborating more onto the individual planets in the Coalition because it is those planets that make up the government, and in some cases, have precedence over it in interstellar relations. How do you see this interpretation of vision and direction for the CoC and how do you think that your ideas could potentially work with it, if at all? I also agree that the Techno Conglomerate needs love, and much like the timeline, it is a project we are trying to work through already.
     
  4. In saying how to "fix," the Coalition, I am somewhat confused. You make some ideas for how to do so in your third response, however, the answers here are rather vague. In fixing the Coalition, how would you attempt to do so aside from just writing more about its government. Its no small secret in the community that you quite enjoy the lore around the Sol Alliance, to varying degrees of irony, and this leads me to think that you may want to make the Coalition more like Sol, in that it has large sections penned on its government style and military, when the Coalition is both in a literal sense in the lore along with a metaphorical sense in principle, the opposite and enemy of the Alliance. How do you intend on fixing the CoC in ways that do not potentially mirror styles or techniques used in other settings in our lore? I agree that if fixing the Coalition were done, it would be a great task, so I would suggest it be treated with as much originality as possible in order to preserve the unique identity and flavour that the it holds in our lore.
     
  5. I am pleased to see that you believe that you can work in a team. While I think that I could work with you well, I have some doubts that you may be able to fulfil the community functions of a Lore Deputy in a team setting. As evident by the large number of responses questioning your character for various incidents in the past, you are certainly not the most popular of candidates and have some in the community who would disapprove of you holding this position and vocally so. How, in your opinion, do you think that you could both be a proactive member of our lore team in regards to community functions, while also not letting your reputation among some in the community damage your ability to interact with the playerbase to the standards held by the staff and the lore team? Do you think that this unpopularity or disapproval in the community would negatively effect your ability to produce lore at the rate and to the quality expected by the lore team, and if so, how would you attempt to rectify the situation? Similarly, there will be times when I as the Maintainer, a Loremaster, or even an Admin, will disapprove of your ideas and either highly edit them or reject them outright, even if they may have taken good work, or be personally significant to you. Do you believe that you can accept these as they come and proceed in the lore team without grudge towards superiors in higher staff, and if this becomes a problem, how do you think that it would be best for you to handle things in that situation?
     
  6. I have no concerns about prior disciplinary history here.

    Misc: You have a planet which you have been hoping to canonise for the better part of a year, and you have provided it as your writing sample. Its well known to both the lore team along with the community at large, that you care very deeply about this planet, and have it as a passion project. I can understand the amounts of love and care that go into creating and curating such a place, however, I would be ignorant to my own thoughts if part of me did not wonder if you are seeking this position for purposes of canonising that planet or for furthering other personal projects to a monocular degree. I know that you are passionate about the lore of our server in general, however, I also know that you are a person who is passionate about his own projects as well. Please elaborate on your application as it relates to Visegrad, and furthermore, how Visegrad plays into your vision for a potential tenure as a Human Lore Deputy.

    That is all. I look forwards to your responses.

 

  1.  

Forgive me for letting these questions sit for some time. After the first day of this application being up, I felt the need to step away and take a break due to the intensity and volume of questions/replies made in this thread. Furthermore, forgive the length of some of these responses - I understand they might be a little long.

1. Passion itself isn't going to distinguish me as a candidate - you're right in that regard. However, as I originally state, it is only one component of my relationship with the lore. What I feel truly distinguishes me as a candidate is not just my passion, but the things that come with that passion. Anyone who has spoken with me in regards to the lore can doubtlessly tell you that I have a fervent desire to thoroughly understand and internalize as much lore as is possible. I think it is this desire, coupled with an intense focus on whatever I'm working on is what truly distinguishes me as a candidate. This is harder to demonstrate in action, but there are at least a few people who can attest to my drive in regards to any project I take up.

2. In the interest of truthfulness, I am going to give what may in fact be a wrong answer: I do not believe having such a large body of material is a problem. In fact, I think that human lore should continue expanding, at least for the time being - in my mind, the addition of the wildlands necessitate at least six more planets being added to the game. No, the real problem with our body of human lore is in fact the underutilized, poorly-written, or obsolescent components of this particular media. A large body of well-developed lore is a considerable asset - a large body of some-good-some-bad lore is a point of concern. So-- getting back to my wrong answer? I do not think there is a problem with too much diversity. I do not think there is a problem with there being too many locations. Variety is the spice of life, and Humanity is the most significant component of our setting and of our roster of characters, and deserve a fair share of attention. A species like the Vaurca with such a limited playerbase perhaps does not need such a large body of lore - but a species like Humanity, which every player on this server has made a character for at some point, does. Mind you, I am not suggesting that species other than Humans do not deserve a quantity of high-quality lore - I am just saying that the amount of lore should be proportional to player interest and playerbase girth. In the end, though - the gimmicky, unnecessary, and unbelievable planets of Human lore do not get a free pass because of that. An effort should be made to rework or downsize aspects of Human lore which are a problem. Just as a large body of lore is an asset, and variety is the spice of life-- paradoxically, sometimes less is more.

3/4. I will be answering these questions together, as I feel they cover what is essentially the same topic. I think my vision for the Coalition is, in fact, perfectly amenable with the present direction and overall design that characterizes the Coalition. I am not intending to at all compromise the diversity of the Coalition's member-planets in any capacity - perhaps I erred in describing my aspirations for the Coalition as being a rework. Rather, I think "expansion" or "refactor" were the appropriate terms to use. Furthermore, I do not intend to at all make the Coalition similar to the Sol Alliance - this would be a bizarre decision on my behalf, and I can recognize that it is not at all the right direction to take the Coalition's lore in. No-- My ultimate thought on the matter is that the Coalition itself should receive a degree of the attention that is already afforded to the member-planets. The sole characterization the Coalition's government receives beyond the planets is the brief description on the main page - which I feel is sorely lacking. My vision, for lack of a better word, is that the Coalition would be akin to perhaps the League of Corinth - a highly decentralized state consisting of a number of autonomous polities with their own affairs and goals - with the end goal of this state being military cooperation in the pursuit of defense against outside threats. This """new""" Coalition would have a weak government, but one that actually exists - the Coalition as an entity becomes less of an abstraction and more of an umbrella. It would actually be a confederation instead of a defensive alliance. Getting back to how well this interacts with the Coalition's present status, I think this would be perfectly compatible with the ideal we currently strive for. There is no loss of autonomy or diversity in regards to the member-planets - only a net gain in detail and lore presence for the Coalition. Furthermore, it could create an interesting dynamic - the Coalition's weak central government and ideals contrasting with the immense freedom that is afforded to its constituent bodies. I think this new setup would also allow us to expand upon another theme that the Coalition has - how the Coalition's heavy-hitter planets are able to influence the direction of the entire "nation", and occasionally butt heads with one another. 

5. I ultimately don't expect many complications coming from my unpopularity with some individuals. While I do think that I'll need to change my behavior in regards to the community at large due to the standards that staff are expected to hold themselves to, I also think that in any community you will not always be universally-liked - and this is something that all people need to deal with. With that in mind, besides making myself more approachable and generally amiable, I also intend to be objective as possible in my dealings with the playerbase. Ultimately while a lore writer's greatest responsibility is going to be writing lore, community functions are doubtlessly important, and I'm going to strive to change my dealings with the community at large in order to handle this in the right manner. I think that as long as I'm being treated fairly, I'll have no trouble interacting with people who I might even adamantly dislike in the course of lore-related dealings. As far as whether or not this will impact my ability to write lore, I highly doubt it. A small minority of people having negative feelings toward me will not hamper my ability to do my work at all - if that was the case, I imagine I would've hit that hurdle already. As far as having work denied is concerned, I believe I touched upon this previously - so I'll be brief. I am not going to claim I won't mind it at all- but I don't think there'll be long-term problems coming from this. Nobody is happy when something they worked hard on is rejected - but I think at the same time, I'll be perfectly able to sort this out with the other people, or move on if that's not an option. Communication about this sort of thing is key: And I think the best way to handle a situation like this is communicating with the other party. Even if nothing changes, you gain the insight needed to avoid this situation from happening again, if at all possible. 

Regarding Visegrad: It would be an outright, bold-faced lie if I said Visegrad was not very important to me - and in the interest of full disclosure, I do truly and adamantly want to see it added to our official canon. The planet itself has seen a year and a half's work on and off, and has been up for canonization for eleven months now - in June, it'll be a year. To be very clear: I do not at all intend to use this position to try and canonize Visegrad. As far as I'm concerned, I want the application to play out exactly as it would if I did not get the position. I, in fact, wish to minimize my official dealings with Visegrad unless my involvement is officially requested. I want to make it clear that I will not try to use my position for quasi lore-nepotism (for lack of a better phrase). Besides Visegrad, I have no other personal pet projects I wish to see integrated into the lore proper - so I wouldn't be concerned about monocularity. As far as a vision is concerned? Visegrad, I suppose, is related to one thing I feel quite strongly about - that every warlord faction should have a planet in its domain. Visegrad would, in my idealized future, be one of those planets - however, that vision exists regardless of Visegrad's being.

 

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On 18/05/2021 at 07:37, Caelphon said:

There are no wrong answers, just me wanting to get to know your opinions and future plans should you become a member of the Lore Team. Goodluck. 

1. I'm assuming this is in an OOC sense? Because my answer is relatively straight-forward: It depends on the situation. Some cross-species interaction is a necessity, and it'd be bizarre if Human lore was totally insular - however, at the same time, I don't think we should be looking for excuses to force cross-species interaction. This is a uniquely Human problem, in my opinion - we occasionally run into planets or locations having an alien presence when it may not make sense. Cross-species interaction is something I want to see in environments where it makes sense, and the interaction between species makes sense. For example, I would strongly oppose Gadpathur developing cross-species relations with one of our alien factions - or having a substantial alien population - the same goes for Assunzione, or Aemaq, as examples. Building upon that, some factions don't make sense having relations with certain alien factions - I don't foresee Dominia developing involvement with the Skrell, or Sol with the Unathi - it all depends on the time and place. At the same time, an expansion of Sol-Skrell relations or Elyra-Unathi relations would be perfectly understandable and wholly welcomed. There's a time and a place for everything, in the end.

2. This is an exceedingly broad question that I'm going to answer relatively briefly, and in bulletin point fashion.
Regarding Skrell - I think the number one priority for Human-Skrell relations should be an expansion of Sol-Jargon relations. Jargon was exceedingly silent during KotW, and I think we should really make it clear what the state of affairs between those two nations are.
Regarding Tajara - I think Taj interaction with the rest of Humanity is fine as it is. They are in a good place and have just the right amount of lore integration with the Human factions.
Regarding Unathi - I think an expansion of their dealings with Elyra and the Coalition could be warranted. I specifically want to examine the antagonistic attitude they have regarding Elyra.
Regarding IPCs - Not really a species in the technical definition, but similarly with Taj, I feel they're fine as-is. I do want to evaluate their position within certain factions, specifically the Techno-Conglomerate.
Regarding Diona and Vaurca - Beats me, man. These species have certain foundational problems that I feel need to be fixed before they can be approached for cross-species interaction.

3. Again, my answers here will be brief. I think Eridani is in a good position as-is - the lore is sufficient, and the niche it occupies stable and well-represented. As for Mictlan, I feel it could use a total rewrite, or at least a major refactor - Mictlan is a black sheep planet, largely neglected within the scope of Human lore. I have a few ideas for Mictlan - and I'd also like to see the entire Corporate Reconstruction Zone receive an expansion.

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1 hour ago, DanseMacabre said:

Ultimately while a lore writer's greatest responsibility is going to be writing lore, community functions are doubtlessly important, and I'm going to strive to change my dealings with the community at large in order to handle this in the right manner.

I and likely many others would like to believe this, but I worry that the end result may be more of the same. In addition to statements like the one in the image posted earlier, your response to certain posts has been lackluster, and in some cases non-existent. When asked about the "joke" from the aforementioned image, there was no response. When another user took the time to offer their feedback on your lore and behaviors, they were blocked and accused of harassment. Personally, I do not believe these are behaviors that should be exhibited during the feedback phase, much less from a full-fledged member of staff. It reflects poorly on the image of the rest of the team when a member's response to any feedback that could be considered slightly critical is to ignore it entirely. Open communication with people who have legitimate things to say is vital to being in a role such as this one.

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Posted (edited)
10 hours ago, NewOriginalSchwann said:

Hello, and thank you for applying for the position of human lore deputy! For better or for worse there have already been quite a lot of questions asked in this thread. As my colleague, Lain, has already gone over your responses to our questions quite thoroughly I won't be responding to your responses individually. Instead I'll be asking some questions of my own below in bullet point format. Remember that there are no right or wrong responses, and to simply fill out the question to the best of your ability. Please attempt to keep individual responses roughly one to two paragraphs long.

  • A great amount of your writing seems to focus on "technical" aspects of lore such as economics, government structures, and the military with comparatively less space devoted to society and culture. A lot of our planets (for example: Luna, Venus, Silversun, NHP, etc.) tend to devote a large amount to society and culture or weave together society and culture with more technical aspects, such as how Silversun's cultural divide is intrinsically tied to Idris' economic presence. If you are hired as our deputy, how do you intend to balance the technical and cultural aspects of your written lore?
  • You've mentioned that you have an interest in reworking/retouching the Coalition, a part of the lore that you feel is boring, but you don't offer a lot regarding the how of your rework instead if the why. Your response is also a bit too limited in scope -- the Coalition is one of our largest lore entities, and reworking it will be a very big prospect. Could you expand upon which areas of the Coalition you'd like to examine and focus on in order to achieve your goal? Additionally are there any areas outside the Coalition you'd like to focus on?

Again, thank you for your interest in applying! I am eagerly looking forward to reading your responses.

1. I'd argue that I don't typically over-focus on "technical" aspects of lore in any substantial capacity - I would like to point out that a lot more information is provided on Visegradian culture and society than on Visegradian economics and government, as an example. I will say that I do tend to pay a considerable amount of attention to this side of the lore of any planet I work on- largely because it is easier for me to write, personally- and as with anything a balancing act must be made. Should I become a deputy, I think the best way for me to provide a proper vision of both sides of this coin through a combination of conscious design and self-control - the key would largely be approaching lore development in a way that isn't lopsided, and keeping in mind the original goals of the lore in question - sometimes the balance may not, in fact, need to be 1:1. Certain pieces of lore will necessitate a greater focus on one side or the other, depending on the situation. Furthermore, the best way to keep from overdoing these things is by making a focus on integration with other aspects of the lore in question - like with Silversun, to steal an example from the question.

2. I hope you'll forgive me for pointing you at answers three and four in my response to Lain's questions, as I believe I sufficiently answer this question there. If you want further elaboration, do let me know.

Edited by DanseMacabre
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On 18/05/2021 at 15:53, DeadLantern said:

Hello DanseMacabre... x2

Becoming the lore deputy, you are likely to be assigned various tasks for you to do. You may have a choice in this, or you may not. Sometimes you will be able to write what you want, but other times you are going to be forced to write about things you may not be the most passionate about or things that you were not expecting to write about.

Would you be willing to write about things that aren't necessarily outlined in your application--even if you don't really want to write about these things? I understand you dislike the concept of Megacorporations in general when it comes to sci-fi; however, you may have to include corporate influences in your planets or write things exclusively relating to megacorporations. Would you still do this, even if it goes against your idea of what makes lore good?

I'm going to answer this in a straight-forward manner - I don't foresee this being a problem. I dislike megacorporations as a science fiction trope/theme, yes, but I will also say that I don't detest them - and I can even find them interesting, with enough modification to the original formula. Furthermore, I believe I'll manage just fine with writing things I don't enjoy. Think of it this way: writing is work, and you do not need to enjoy work to do it. It just so happens that I do frequently enjoy writing - but at the same time, I have spent plenty of time writing about things I have positively no interest in, or have no desire to write about. Schoolwork, anyone?

 

On 18/05/2021 at 15:53, DeadLantern said:

Would you take it well if ideas you think would be good for the setting get shot down immediately? Often times, as a deputy, you may have ideas for things, and though they may be considered, your loremaster may shoot them down without that idea even seeing the light of day. I'm not saying this will be the rule, but it is probably going to happen. Are you fine with your ideas being deferred to fit the loremaster's vision? 

I hope you'll forgive me for pointing you at answer five in my response to Lain's questions, as I believe I sufficiently answer this question there. If you want further elaboration, do let me know.

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This is probably going to be lengthy, but I will try to be as concise and helpful as I can here.

There is a reoccurring narrative regarding an issue with your comments, and you clarifying that they are in fact not meant to be offensive, but instead jokes. On this note I am not really interested in arguing in bad faith— it is not my place to and would be better left to actual mods and admins instead of peanuting on a dev application should it be needed. Just to clear the water there.

At any rate, this is still a consistent thing that is shown to be repeated behavior. Best case scenario is that this is a tone-deaf interpretation of the room, which can be understandable since tone over text can be a difficult thing to master. Nonetheless, if this is a position you are considering, whether a writer here, a storyboard developer for a game, a journalist, what have you— communication is an extremely valuable skill to have in these environments. One of my professors used to comment that being able to sell a joke to an audience with minimal knowledge of what they are like and who they are is a good sign of being able to communicate with others.

Anecdote aside, if multiple people are interpreting your jokes as being serious comments, then the approach isn't working. This is not my long-winded way of saying "you are critically an unfunny person," but rather to consider your audience— including people you are not necessarily speaking to or are not present, but may read it later— when making quips about the lore, characters, people, anything really. Even if it is not meant to be hurtful, humor can be a powerful tool for or against someone since being the butt of a joke is not always fun. I usually like to cite personal experience with these: someone mentioned their interest in dionae back when I first started playing on the Aurora, but after a slew of people going "dionae bad" and instantly critiquing the species without considering how they may have sounded— well, I checked the who list after that and saw that the person logged off.

It is something to keep in mind going forward. There is nothing wrong with being vocal, but an opinion or start of a joke is just as important as its delivery and presentation.

Regardless of this, hopefully the chatter on this thread dies down somewhat and further posts are made with new angles.

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  • 2 weeks later...

In the interest of full disclosure, I would like to say that I have recently asked the Human lore team to not consider me a candidate for this position. Ultimately, this application took a lot out of me - and I lost a lot of the enthusiasm I previously had for the position, and I ended up deciding I'd rather see someone else get it for the time being. I didn't want it closed because I wanted to continue engaging with people and to answer their questions, but in the end I felt like I would much rather wait for the next time around than try to move forward with this. I'd like to thank everyone who replied to this thread with an open mind and good faith - your questions and comments meant a lot to me. See you next time!

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