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New IPC resurrection proposal


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I have discussed with the ipc lore person a new way to bringing ipcs back from life. Removing the actual one that is just repairing the dead body and doing a simple surgery, which is rather cheap and causes a lot of bugs. Anyway, it will work in the following way;


When an ipc dies, robotics must build a full cyborg body, change the law setting in the head, and then, place the posibrain into the chassis. This will create an unbranded/temporary ipc chassis. Robotics will not be able to create baselines or industrial models, due to their limitations.


PR with the details of the change: https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/4472


Now, I wish to see people's idea and opinions on this, since it has been considered a rather controversial change.

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I really believe this shouldn't just be a underhanded thing between the Lore Developers, and coders. This is a major change that is going to affect many people who play IPCs, and in my opinion, isn't beneficial to improving enjoyment in the game.


At current stages, this is just a way to punish IPC players. I whole-heatedly am against this until further action is taken.



 

  • Point 1: At this stage of development, if you die as an IPC, you loose absolutely all uniqueness of your robot, you are put into one, singular (AND weakened) shell, that has no customization, and you are unable to change back to what you were before. You're being more punished than a Borg, Human, Skrell, Unathi, Tajara, and any other species in the game. You are being punished more than any other race for dying, which is not fair whatsoever.
     
  • Point 2: When you are cloned, you don't face perma brain damage, you can have surgery to fix it and its done, don't need to worry about this anymore. With this, not only are you getting rid of what was said above, but you are also giving them a round-long debuff that cannot be fixed, improved, or helped. This again is just punishing players more than any other race is punished for dying, and its stupid, and unfair.
     
  • Point 3: I agree, what we have now needs improvement, just removing the brain and readding it is boring, but punishing players for dying isn't going to make the race enjoyable to play what-so-ever. This is going to encourage people not wanting to play more-dangerous roles as IPCs, because they're just going to be punished later on if something happens to them. I've had many rounds where I've been caught by a couple stray cult EMP as my engineer, doing something completely unrelated, but I just so happen to be near enough to be caught in the blast, and I die. Everyone falls in a hole by accident, or catches on fire by accident, or is stuck out in space when their cell charger runs out, everyone dies from time to time, and this just makes dying such a freaking hassle, and so un-fun that it sucks.

 


Honestly, if this is the direction that IPCs are going in, I don't think I would want to play the race anymore. I don't want to be punished because of the actions of some characters, we should be cracking down on said players, not punishing everyone that just so happens to play the same race as them.


I am very against this update, until HEAVY modifications are made for it to be fair.

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  • Point 1: At this stage of development, if you die as an IPC, you loose absolutely all uniqueness of your robot, you are put into one, singular (AND weakened) shell, that has no customization, and you are unable to change back to what you were before. You're being more punished than a Borg, Human, Skrell, Unathi, Tajara, and any other species in the game. You are being punished more than any other race for dying, which is not fair whatsoever.

 

There is little difference mechanical-wise between this ipc type and the baselines, besides, customization is hardly a thing on the ipc species, with the exception of shell and baselines, because all the indutrials are pretty much the same thing. And your character is still the same posibrain, just inside a different frame.

 

  • Point 2: When you are cloned, you don't face perma brain damage, you can have surgery to fix it and its done, don't need to worry about this anymore. With this, not only are you getting rid of what was said above, but you are also giving them a round-long debuff that cannot be fixed, improved, or helped. This again is just punishing players more than any other race is punished for dying, and its stupid, and unfair.

 

It follows the same logic of cloning, rebuilding a new body. Cloning can also take away certain things like robotics limbs and some powers, besides causing traumas and even mutations. There are enough complaints that death should be more meaningful, this is still meaningful and allows the ipc to still play after dying.

 

  • Point 3: I agree, what we have now needs improvement, just removing the brain and readding it is boring, but punishing players for dying isn't going to make the race enjoyable to play what-so-ever. This is going to encourage people not wanting to play more-dangerous roles as IPCs, because they're just going to be punished later on if something happens to them. I've had many rounds where I've been caught by a couple stray cult EMP as my engineer, doing something completely unrelated, but I just so happen to be near enough to be caught in the blast, and I die. Everyone falls in a hole by accident, or catches on fire by accident, or is stuck out in space when their cell charger runs out, everyone dies from time to time, and this just makes dying such a freaking hassle, and so un-fun that it sucks.

 

I believe you should not consider being brought back to life after being killed a right, because it is not.

 

Honestly, if this is the direction that IPCs are going in, I don't think I would want to play the race anymore. I don't want to be punished because of the actions of some characters, we should be cracking down on said players, not punishing everyone that just so happens to play the same race as them.


I am very against this update, until HEAVY modifications are made for it to be fair.

 

This has nothing to do with ipcs being rambo or something. People will rambo even if they are gibbed. This was a thing way before, and I always wanted to do something about ipc ressurection, since it was really terrble the way it was done before.

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My whole point with the cloning statement is.


If there are mutations, they can be cured, and they the player is back to normal.

If you lose cybernetics, you could always just have robotics print you some new ones, and you're back to normal.

If you have brain damage, most medical doctors just fix the brain damage after cryo anyways.


From your notes about what is going into the update, IPCs are being restricted from going back to normal. They cannot have surgery that makes them fully operational, they can't just have parts added to fix it back to what they are, they are handicapped for the rest of the round. If you don't like the look of the shell, oh well you can't do anything about it.


Right now, here is a comparison of what I can understand will be happening.


> Dead Human

> Brought to the cloning pod, placed inside

> Scanned, cloning starts

> Body is removed from cloning pod and put in Cryo

> Body is scanned in a scanner, abnormalities are found in their brain

> Body is brought to surgery and the brain damage (And side-effects) are fixed

What is left, is a human who is no more hindered than what they were before they died, but perhaps a bit more scared ICly


Now, onto what it seems will happen with an IPC

> Dead IPC

> Brought to robotics to have brain recovered

> Brain is recovered, and removed from the old chassis, repairs that are needed to said brain are done.

> The roboticist begins printing off the parts for a normal cyborg

> Roboticist modifies the parts for a cyborg to remove the laws.

> An empty, weaker shell is left

> The brain is installed into this shell, and is sent on its way.

What is left, is a weaker, less efficient robot, who is hindered more so than the other, and has completely lost their appearance.


I really don't see this as fair.

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My whole point with the cloning statement is.


If there are mutations, they can be cured, and they the player is back to normal.

If you lose cybernetics, you could always just have robotics print you some new ones, and you're back to normal.

If you have brain damage, most medical doctors just fix the brain damage after cryo anyways.


From your notes about what is going into the update, IPCs are being restricted from going back to normal. They cannot have surgery that makes them fully operational, they can't just have parts added to fix it back to what they are, they are handicapped for the rest of the round. If you don't like the look of the shell, oh well you can't do anything about it.


Right now, here is a comparison of what I can understand will be happening.


> Dead Human

> Brought to the cloning pod, placed inside

> Scanned, cloning starts

> Body is removed from cloning pod and put in Cryo

> Body is scanned in a scanner, abnormalities are found in their brain

> Body is brought to surgery and the brain damage (And side-effects) are fixed

What is left, is a human who is no more hindered than what they were before they died, but perhaps a bit more scared ICly


Now, onto what it seems will happen with an IPC

> Dead IPC

> Brought to robotics to have brain recovered

> Brain is recovered, and removed from the old chassis, repairs that are needed to said brain are done.

> The roboticist begins printing off the parts for a normal cyborg

> Roboticist modifies the parts for a cyborg to remove the laws.

> An empty, weaker shell is left

> The brain is installed into this shell, and is sent on its way.

What is left, is a weaker, less efficient robot, who is hindered more so than the other, and has completely lost their appearance.


I really don't see this as fair.

 

Claiming it is not fair is hardly an argument, when ipcs are hardly "fair" in relation to a human when it comes down to dying and being fixed. And the new shell is not weaker than a regular baseline. I fail to see how memory loss and other cloning related is fine, but an ipc also having to adapt to a new body and other situation related to it is not fine, even if it is only for a single round.

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Would it check for where the brain came from? Or if the player being inserted has a whitelist? If not, I can see this being used as a way to bypass whitelists, or create IPCs through robotics.

Which I would support, given that it might be more for robotics to do/goof around with.

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Would it check for where the brain came from? Or if the player being inserted has a whitelist? If not, I can see this being used as a way to bypass whitelists, or create IPCs through robotics.

Which I would support, given that it might be more for robotics to do/goof around with.

 

Any mmi or posibrain can be used, also it does check for a whitelist.

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Any mmi or posibrain can be used, also it does check for a whitelist.

How would an MMI work? Would it essentially end up a cyborg, but with hands and no modules, or is it intended as another method of reviving deceased. For example, using as a body for a poor gibbed soul until either round end, or scientists use the wonders of genetics to make a replacement.

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How would an MMI work? Would it essentially end up a cyborg, but with hands and no modules, or is it intended as another method of reviving deceased. For example, using as a body for a poor gibbed soul until either round end, or scientists use the wonders of genetics to make a replacement.

 

You can already do this with an empty ipc body. Also, take in consideration that you will need to erase someone's memory and etc to put them inside a mmi, not something that would be used to revive an organic like cloning.

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I dislike it. It seems weirdly punishing to IPC players. Work on the existing bugs and keep the uniqueness that already exists per frame and character, rather than creating an arbitrary, dissatisfying standard for returning players to the round.


It also doesn't make sense to scrap a specialized frame in favor of a generic one unless the original frame is entirely destroyed, and that is almost never the case.

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Point 1: At this stage of development, if you die as an IPC, you loose absolutely all uniqueness of your robot, you are put into one, singular (AND weakened) shell, that has no customization, and you are unable to change back to what you were before. You're being more punished than a Borg, Human, Skrell, Unathi, Tajara, and any other species in the game. You are being punished more than any other race for dying, which is not fair whatsoever.

Except the other ones; Vaurca and diona (and vox if you count them).

Vaurca are almost never cloned just due to how difficult it is, dionaea can't be revived when their nymphs are killed, and vox can't be cloned. IPC's just get an appearance modification, and perhaps a minor inconvenience if their job doesn't work well with a baseline frame.

 

Point 2: When you are cloned, you don't face perma brain damage, you can have surgery to fix it and its done, don't need to worry about this anymore. With this, not only are you getting rid of what was said above, but you are also giving them a round-long debuff that cannot be fixed, improved, or helped. This again is just punishing players more than any other race is punished for dying, and its stupid, and unfair.

But you are impaired for the rest of the round; if someone isn't roleplaying the effects of having been killed then they need to be ahelped. IPC's don't have this kind of IC restraint because they're robots. So they're given a mechanical one instead.

 

Point 3: I agree, what we have now needs improvement, just removing the brain and readding it is boring, but punishing players for dying isn't going to make the race enjoyable to play what-so-ever. This is going to encourage people not wanting to play more-dangerous roles as IPCs, because they're just going to be punished later on if something happens to them. I've had many rounds where I've been caught by a couple stray cult EMP as my engineer, doing something completely unrelated, but I just so happen to be near enough to be caught in the blast, and I die. Everyone falls in a hole by accident, or catches on fire by accident, or is stuck out in space when their cell charger runs out, everyone dies from time to time, and this just makes dying such a freaking hassle, and so un-fun that it sucks.

Yes. So keep your magboots on. Stay away from fires. Keep an eye on your cell charger.

Punishing players for dying does make it enjoyable to play. It adds tension, it means that treating your IPC like an expensive piece of machinery rather than an infinitely-respawning tin can is vital to your continued existence. If non-security/non-antag IPCs are dying often enough that this is seriously going to impede day-to-day play, then they're not being treated with the gravity that they should.



Basically: Punishment isn't bad. I for one want death to ban me permenantly so that i treat our overlord antagonits with the respect they deserve. IPCs should have some kiind of reason to avoid death because the arguement "im a robot meant to defend the station of course i shouldn't be afraid of dying to defend it" is incredibly widely used. c an i get an 3492795nyrb0uh4r8.png

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Alberyk, I legitimately don't understand how you can claim that 'death is cheap' is a core mechanic of this game when we're in a cloning discussion and still turn around and then tell people that they don't deserve to be brought back into the game after they die and need to be punished for dying.


I don't like this idea, and I don't even play IPCs. What you're doing here is arbitrarily making the decision on behalf of everyone else about what's right for the game. What exactly is the reason why you can't print out branded robot parts?


Is it because the station isn't allowed to print copyrighted schematics? If that's the case why can't they just purchased a new chassis from cargo coming straight from the company that makes that particular model?


Why are you inserting this convoluted method of stuffing and IPC into a generic body for the rest of the round, which would make almost every IPC player upsets because they don't look like their character anymore, they're just a generic robot.


Do you remember when there was a bug where all cloned unathi (and all of the other variable color races for that matter I just didn't play them) came back as generic green unathi except that their tail color was still whatever their original color was and it looked awful and everyone hated it? This is what you are willingly forcing on IPC players.


It seems like it would be much more sense with these limitations you speak of for someone to order a spare branded chassis from cargo of the brand that the IPC wants. Some of them could even plan ahead and order their chassis to be delivered to robotics for when they need it later. It could be a very expensive item severely limiting ipc's abilities to be repeatedly restored into a new body, and perhaps create new interesting dynamics where the IPCs friends all pool together their money to buy them a new branded body.


The repair mechanics could be more focused on preparing the newly purchased body for use (recoloring and formatting it, whatever) and repairing the damage to the positronic brain that caused it's failure in the first place, before you put it in the new body.

Edited by Guest
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Alberyk, I legitimately don't understand how you can claim that 'death is cheap' is a core mechanic of this game and still turn around and then tell people that they don't deserve to be brought back into the game after they die and need to be punished for dying.

 


Cloninig is not the only way to return to the round, there are ghost roles and respawns.


 

I don't like this idea, and I don't even play IPCs. What you're doing here is arbitrarily making the decision on behalf of everyone else about what's right for the game. What exactly is the reason why you can't print out branded robot parts?

 


Not arbitrarily, because I did consult lore people, made a pr to gather feedback and then this thread. I am not against changes if my initial proposal does seems to be unpopular or there are better ways to handle this.


 

It seems like it would be much more sense with these limitations you speak of for someone to order a spare branded chassis from cargo of the brand that the IPC wants. Some of them could even plan ahead and order their chassis to be delivered to robotics for when they need it later. It could be a very expensive item severely limiting ipc's abilities to be repeatedly restored into a new body, and perhaps create new interesting dynamics where the IPCs friends all pool together their money to buy them a new branded body.

 


This could be solved by allowing you to create other bodies/species using the branded parts, I am not against making changes in this pr.

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This could be solved by allowing you to create other bodies/species using the branded parts, I am not against making changes in this pr.

 

Other species? You mean that youd reintroduce xeno shells as purchasable items?


Either way, as long as there's a way to get these parts rather than forcing you into a generic chassis, period, I don't have a whole lot of problems with this update. My main beef with it was from an aesthetic standpoint.

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This is weirdly punishing and shoving you into a weakened, temporary state compared to the current cloning system everybody else gets access to is just beating someone down for playing a species. I'm all for making their resurrection difficult, but not impossible- And yes, this is impossible. This is effectively "you're now a shitty cyborg for the rest of the shift". That's not a resurrection, they don't get to play their character outside of speech. They just get to be a shitty cyborg. It makes ions even MORE destructive to IPC's, which quite frequently render them dead very fast.

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I'm a fan of the general idea of this though I guess I can see where people are coming from when it seems a little too punishing to lok people out of their character customization and weaken them for the remainder of the round. I think its best off with Kaed's idea of ordering branded parts from Cargo, and the basic unbranded makeshift option in the OP is just there to be used in a punch, when the IPC is absolutely needed back right now (medical, engineering, sec emergencies etc).


Additionally would it be possible to have some way of recycling old parts? Assuming they weren't completely annihilated, maybe just the limbs could be reusable, albeit with glitchy and less-than-ideal performance based on what kind of damage they took when the original owner was being killed.. Possibly with the option for the roboticist to manually reinforce the limb themselves to at least bring it closer to its original resiliency.


That said I'd rather do this than stick with IPC revival in its current state.


No xeno shells, please.

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I definitely support this idea.

It´s no longer cheap and easy to bring back a IPC and it adds real consequences to dieing for them.


Which is something that they are lacking at the moment.

There are no brain traumas that need to be cured.

There is no CMD that needs to be dealt with.

There is no counselling they need to go through.


And I like the idea that you don't get back into your original body but you have to adapt to a new body.

While the new body is slightly weaker and a generic one, it still allows them to come back.

And it´s only for the current round.


Enabling cargo to ship in custom parts / premade shells is a very nice idea.

It would allow the IPC Player to get back into a somewhat customized body while preventing that from occurring too often as there is a heavy price tag associated with the new, custom body.

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Supporting.


I'm a major proponent of consequence affecting actions ICly.


IPCs are already tentatively unbalanced enough to even remotely justify the current status quo of reviving them from death with zero consequence that organics do not receive, as if it were okay to ignore the consequential comparison. Organic characters have to deal with the aftereffects of death, and revival/counselling is a very time-consuming process even in spite of the variety of chems that heal all of it completely. Why shouldn't IPCs?


I don't think IPC players have a right to complain about 'punishing gameplay mechanics' when they can get hit by a single slug to the chest and not really worry about it, meanwhile everyone else needs to worry about getting maimed or cleaved into bits.


IPC players will need to weigh risk and reward better for different situations. And that is better decision-making for roleplay, in my eyes.

Edited by Guest
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I support this change.


Now do note that I do not play any other species than Diona if I can avoid it but what many players that do not know about when you split as a diona it is a long and time consuming process to become whole again unless you want to murder and eat station pets. Becoming split and reforming is not a minor inconvenience as you lose all your items, need to absorb your nymphs, eat food and then you can reform, naked and without an ID or any tools to get you back on your feet.


In my opinion this is a good change, forCE IPC's to add on their debts if they wish for their complete body. Or allow us to buy the rights for an extreme amount of money so we can print them ourselves. Make the filthy IPCs punished for coming back alive.


-Sebbe

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Nerfing the capabilities of a species is not "punishing" them. A species having different mechanics, perhaps even less "fair" mechanics is not a "punishment". When you play as an alien species (or in this case a robotic one), it is not your "right" to just play exactly the same as any other species. Accept this and stop trying to use these complaints in your arguments, because it makes you ridiculous, especially when the only "punishment" of this revival method is an ugly sprite, you snowflakes.


That said, considering that this ugly sprite is only a result of a certain coder laziness, for lack of a better word, I don't see a reason we can't allow roboticist's to construct specialized frames, considering they can already print the limbs. Just have the borg chassis check for the brands of limbs attached.

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I understand why this bothers people, but I'm also for it.

IPCs are robust as hell and are currently able to just throw themselves into most dangerous situations that happen to be around, where most species cannot. Giving the ressurection process a little bit of a downside seems reasonable to me.

Of course the consequences of the change would have to be tested on the server, but I generally see no big issue here.

Edited by Guest
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I understand why this bothers people, but I'm also for it.

IPCs are robust as hell and are currently able to just throw themselves into whatever breach happens to be around, where most species cannot. Giving the ressurection process a little bit of a downside seems reasonable to me.

Of course the consequences of the change would have to be tested on the server, but I generally see no big issue here.

There are lockers with fully functional softsuits literally everywhere.

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You know, I've never not had a time where I'd been hit by a projectile and not had to spend the rest of the round as a pysically inept malfunctiining robotman.


I suggest you at the least provide "generic" chassis like baselines and industrials a different model. Shoving everyone into some weird body is annoying , not the least because then you have no difference between some slow G1 and a Zeng-Hu Meth-Frame after they die.


The only IPCs I don't see the station being fit to handle are the showpieces, like Shells, because god damn all that synthskin, and the darn bishop frame. All the others are actually for work.


Instead of doing something that feels extremely petty and likely to be supported by people who hate Synths because they were robusted by Noir during a ling/vamp round, please consider that most competent IPCs don't tend to just rush to the frontlines and getting repaired from death is usually not a fast process. And there are plenty of other synths besides sec synths. Besides the point, why doesn't anyone just....you know.....attempt to stop people from reviving them? Also, if you can repair each part individually while they are alive, why cant you repair a dead one and then power it on somehow? Why don't we have a recharging mechanic where the battery is slower and a new one must be located? Why not give certain weaker-armoured IPCs a harder time in arbitrary conditions?


My point is, from an RP standpoint, there are a plethora of better options to be explored.


Also let me fix the damn sprite plzthx it's so ugly.

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