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In-Game/Lore Policy Clarification on Security Vests and when to Wear them [Implemented]


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What is NT's opinion on the intended purpose of security vests? Are security officers expected to wear them at all times, or not? There's nothing underlining the answer to these questions in-game.


You might ask, 'why's this a problem?' It's a problem because the wiki and admins are telling me two different things. The wiki says that security officers should reserve vests for code blue, and the HEAD ADMIN is saying you should wear them all the time, or you are a liability to the company and should be fired.


So which is it? And whichever it is, it should be explicitly enforced and stated in the corporate policies. I don't want other players thinking I'm a metagamer because I'm wearing my vest all the time(despite the fact I don't wear sunglasses nonstop, which is the meta for using flashes).


Underline the solution to this problem in the rules, please. IC or OOC.

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a station security officer is just as trained as a cop in biesal. they are trained to get involved and deal with physical situations. yes they are much less common in a workplace aboard a station but you STILL NEED TO BE PREPARED for situations you are TRAINED TO DEAL WITH. wearing a stab vest is a reasonable level of protection because in almost any situation where you would go "i need to go get my stab vest" you are already fucking dead. knives are fucking dangerous. you NEED to protect your vital organs in some way.


No this doesnt mean we need to raid the armory every shift "because the crew might make guns". thats an absurd argument i hope we dont devolve into it. We are talking about a reasonable level of protection based on the duties and training of a job. You are absolutely a liability if you refuse to wear the vest and you are DEFINITELY wrong if you try to order your officers to not wear them on green.

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Actual corporate security on research stations or any other place of work don't wear stab proof/bullet proof vests. Expecting trouble like that witnessed in antag rounds is meta. On the other hand it's a game and scientists and doctors walk around in lab coats 24/7 in game which isn't realistic so who cares.


I'd say let them wear them whenever.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

The vest in the regular locker can be worn whenever. That's why it's in the regular lockers. The bullet proof vests and ablative vests and riot armor are all weirder to wear on code green so you shouldn't do it. This is a discrepancy with the wiki and can be addressed. Can you link to where you saw this?


The stab vests can be worn the second you spawn in on code green on extended with the sec officer being on the only one on the station. Plus it looks nice and really completes the officer's attire.

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Actual corporate security on research stations or any other place of work don't wear stab proof/bullet proof vests. Expecting trouble like that witnessed in antag rounds is meta.

 

So, you're saying that a security officer preparing for 'trouble' by wearing his security vest is meta? Meta is against the rules. But then it isn't. The suggestion is for it to be explicitly pointed out somewhere. An answer beyond OOC, but IC as well. There is nothing in the corporate policy encouraging or discouraging wearing the vest always that is sworn by OOCly and is the unanimous answer.

 

This is a discrepancy with the wiki and can be addressed. Can you link to where you saw this?

 

On the sec' officer page.

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Edited by Guest
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It's never explicitly enforced but it's like one of those things that's generally a good idea for a security officer to do: wear a vest. Security vests are stab vests, they're otherwise low quality compared to the heavier vests. This has been a thing on our server forever, why is it being brought up as an issue now? Because it's not explicitly stated on the wiki? It's standard equipment (i.e. not supplied by the armory), why not wear it and use it?


No, wearing a vest as a security officer posted at a research station in the middle of space where they're expected to be the first response and also dole out local judgement for crimes rather than calling the Biesel police, is not meta. It is a thing. It is fine. Knowing things without reasonable in-character excuse for it is metagaming. Wearing a stab vest so as to not face the full brunt of a nasty punch, whack or stab while operating as a corporate security officer is hardly metagaming. C'mon, we know better than this, right?


Yes, security should generally expect trouble as they're the official authority on the station to stop trouble if and when it happens. They can't expect details but they sure as heck can expect something to happen since they're typically first response to deal with drunkards, assholes and trouble-making visitors. Drunkards can easily break a bottle and turn it into a knife, and that stab vest will hopefully save them a lot of internal organ damage. If they go for the head they can be booked for attempted murder.


Up to the head of sec to enforce worn vests or not but they better go on when it's code blue, obviously. Is this really a complex issue? I feel like there are other more pressing problems for security to deal with than the current dilemma of "vest or not to vest", because this is a bit of a silly question to ask.

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Up to the head of sec to enforce worn vests or not

 


I agree with everything except this. you as an HoS do not get to order me to not wear a stab vest on green. You can order me to put it on if i am refusing for some silly reason.


 

Actual corporate security on research stations or any other place of work don't wear stab proof/bullet proof vests. Expecting trouble like that witnessed in antag rounds is meta.

 

 


Security guards on our server have all the training of actual cops. the job title is just different. security guards in real life vary WILDLY in terms of experience and gear they carry. Generally security guards in real life are NOT trained to get involved physically. they are a physical deterrent and often dont even carry weapons. At least here in the US the training to become one is basically just a 40 hour course in a classroom. "observe and report" you dont get physical. thats for actual cops. You cannot really draw a fair comparison between security guards in real life and those on our server. Though you CAN find some security guards in real life that are almost or as well trained as cops.

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Up to the head of sec to enforce worn vests or not

 

I agree with everything except this. you as an HoS do not get to order me to not wear a stab vest on green. You can order me to put it on if i am refusing for some silly reason.

 

Totally fine. I should've pointed out it wouldn't be feasible for a HOS to tell an officer to do something completely unreasonable because "muh low-level preparedness", but it was too late, I already pressed submit.


The only thing I'd be able to do is go, "well fuck" like the beta HOS I am, because they're literally doing nothing wrong.

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At least the wiki should be updated to clearly reflect the sentiment that you can or can't, and that it isn't meta/unreasonable to do so outside of blue/AT ALL TIMES. But then again, the wiki needs updated for a lot of things.


Imagine a security officer SPRINTING DOWN THE HALL to answer the "HELP SEC MAINT" call. He's digging in his satchel as he goes, yanking out his vest that was between his taser and helmet. He's throwing on the vest, strapping it down and tightening it like a madman as he opens the maintenance airlock.

Edited by Guest
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Well, I agree, but as you said, the wiki is not always 100% consistent on what the actual server culture really is as details such as that go unnoticed a majority of the time. The wiki contains guidelines as opposed to what the Server Rules do, however.

 

The server culture seems to have some people who think it's unrealistic for a security officer to wear his stab vest all the time, apparently. And that they're 'mallcops'. Or that you're metagaming.

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So wearing bullet proof vests makes sense because they're first responders who canonically barely deal with any crimes is fine but not helmets, that's meta? Realistically they wouldn't wear body armor, it makes no sense because canonically they are rarely used. Normal security doesn't do this, even armed security doesn't necessarily wear it IRL. HOWEVER from a gameplay point of view I say they should because it looks good, gives security a definitive "look" and balance wise they'd get auto killed by any other antag as we have very robust players and sec armor is at times the only edge the officer has as it can't be disarmed.

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Well, I agree, but as you said, the wiki is not always 100% consistent on what the actual server culture really is as details such as that go unnoticed a majority of the time. The wiki contains guidelines as opposed to what the Server Rules do, however.

 

The server culture seems to have some people who think it's unrealistic for a security officer to wear his stab vest all the time, apparently. And that they're 'mallcops'. Or that you're metagaming.

I just cooked up a meme for this. Post this anytime that situation happens in an actual discussion.

 

unknown.png.


The rest of the community may not always be right, I may not even be, sometimes. Follow your gut.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Wiki updated. You can wear the armor on code green. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. If you want to help our wiki maintainers keep the wiki up to date then it would be great if you applied to be a wiki maintainer. You always seem to find these little niggling oversights, Fortport. You will be a valuable addition to our collective.


The armor in the lockers are simple kelvar stab vests. It's very reasonable that they wear them on code green. The other armor that is unusual to wear on code green is locked in the armory for exactly this reason.

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Wiki updated. You can wear the armor on code green. Thank you for bringing this to our attention. If you want to help our wiki maintainers keep the wiki up to date then it would be great if you applied to be a wiki maintainer. You always seem to find these little niggling oversights, Fortport. You will be a valuable addition to our collective.

 

I would love to do something like that, but I can't promise you I'll root something out very often as I'm not playing SS13 every day. Or even every week.

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Up to the head of sec to enforce worn vests or not

 


I agree with everything except this. you as an HoS do not get to order me to not wear a stab vest on green. You can order me to put it on if i am refusing for some silly reason.


 

Actual corporate security on research stations or any other place of work don't wear stab proof/bullet proof vests. Expecting trouble like that witnessed in antag rounds is meta.

 

 


Security guards on our server have all the training of actual cops. the job title is just different. security guards in real life vary WILDLY in terms of experience and gear they carry. Generally security guards in real life are NOT trained to get involved physically. they are a physical deterrent and often dont even carry weapons. At least here in the US the training to become one is basically just a 40 hour course in a classroom. "observe and report" you dont get physical. thats for actual cops. You cannot really draw a fair comparison between security guards in real life and those on our server. Though you CAN find some security guards in real life that are almost or as well trained as cops.

 

The Head of Security has the authority to do as they wish with your uniform and gear. If they want to take all the batons from Officers, they can. The Head of Security has penultimate authority over Security under the Captain’s ultimate authority. File incident reports, outright saying ‘HoS cant do this’ as a headmin kinda subverts CCIA’s various statements about the authority of Command staff because players will expect what you are saying is actual policy (despite not being based in anything other than personal ipi ion)



Onto the thread itself- I don’t like wearing my vest on green, I carry it in my backpack along with my helmet, and if I respond to a call I throw the vest on while sprinting, if its code blue both articles go on. That’s how I personally operate, I don’t force Officers to wear their vests if they don’t want to. While you could argue Officers are in dangerous situations - an angry employee could just as easily wait outside the bridge and stab the captain violently in the chest as they come out - as the Captain doesn’t wear armour standardly, so the argument kinda falls apart? Idk

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

Sure xander there is no specific policy that explicitly forbids you from banning officers from wearing armor or carrying batons


There's also no hard rule against ordering all officers to wear the cake hats and inflatable ducks when on duty


It's still going to get your command whitelist revoked. make a thread about it


This policy was found to be an oversight and has been corrected.

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The Head of Security has the authority to do as they wish with your uniform and gear.

 

No


 

as the Captain doesn’t wear armour standardly, so the argument kinda falls apart?

 

The captain is not trained nor expected to get physically involved in detaining or apprehending criminals.

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Default operating level. No immediate or clear threat to the station. All departments may carry out work as normal. You are expected to follow standard security procedures at all times during Code Green. You can wear the standard vest available in your security locker, but not the armor found in the armory. Failing to follow standard procedure during Code Green may end up with you violating Corporate Regulations.


This is how the round starts, and you should do everything in your power to keep it that way.

 

This is the implementation. Is this satisfactory [mention]Fortport[/mention]?

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"You can wear the standard vest available in your security locker, but not the armor found in the armory. Failing to follow standard procedure during Code Green may end up with you violating Corporate Regulations."


This is the important part. While it is satisfactory, have you considered swapping out "can wear" to "should wear?" As in, you 'should' wear your vest, for its protection? This encourages its use, but is not a hard 'must'.

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