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Curtail ERT Authority [Implemented]


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It's bugged me for a while that a bunch of generally salty ex-crew ghosts with no whitelist requirements are picked for this role, given a bunch of weapons and armor, and given supreme authority over the station, including doing things like relieving the captain of duty on a whim. They aren't even loyalty implanted anymore, if they ever were.


It's not a hard policy change. The captain of the station.is still the captain of the station. He should have higher authority than a bunch of random gun toting powerboner mercenaries his company sent in to save his ship. He should be trusted to understand what is needed for his company and the station more than armed, non-implanted mercenaries who just arrived minutes ago.

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I disagree partially; You call for help from the company, you should known when to step down and let them do their work, without trying to order them around like more security forces. Emergency Responders aren't just standard Mercenaries, they're mercenaries hired by NanoTrasen with the express purpose to unfuck situations people let be fucked.


I will agree with this partially as well, however. The captain should still have authority over the crew, however not over the Emergency Responders. I'll agree with taking the ability away from them to simply kick the captain out of his position like 'hey you cant run shit anymore', because I'm guilty of doing it, however I've only done it twice and that's when a CCIA had to be called to make sure our resources as an ERT aren't being wasted.


To finish, I both agree and disagree with this change. While I welcome the captain keeping his authority over crew, I will not stand by for ERT simply being treated as extra security forces, when they're not.

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Yeah, I had a round the other day where apparently the Captain was relieved of command and told to stand down by ERT and it was just silly. It doesn’t lend to good or productive RP.


The Captain should be helping the ERT and guiding them. They can keep most of their authority but relieving the Captain is just bad design. Unless the Captain broke the law and was arrested then the Captain can suffer the consequences after the shift is over.

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I could be partially wrong, I don't play ERT that much nor have I had much dealing with ERT as a whole while in server, but what would make sense is that they should not relieve the Captain of their post without a really good reason.


Examples would be post cloning insanity, violation of Biesel laws and such.


Has this issue been occurring a lot? Without sufficient reasoning?

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I could be partially wrong, I don't play ERT that much nor have I had much dealing with ERT as a whole while in server, but what would make sense is that they should not relieve the Captain of their post without a really good reason.


Examples would be post cloning insanity, violation of Biesel laws and such.


Has this issue been occurring a lot? Without sufficient reasoning?

 

I don't know how often it happens, but I do know that just last night I wandered by the captain and HoP in a cult round, and asked them for something, and were told that they had been relieved of duty by the ERT 'the moment they arrived'. They seemed like perfectly sane individuals who were not in need of arrest or therapy and were just enjoying coffees in the bridge lounge in the middle of a crisis.


That scenario is what prompted me to make this thread. The Captain (and really the whole command staff, but this could really fall under a 'the captain can veto them relieving his command staff' clause.) should not, barring some very specific reasons, be able to be relieved of duty on the whim of the ERT.

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Don't think it would hurt to cover this in the wiki. Will get back to you with a proposal.

 

One more thing I want to add:


While I don't think necessarily that the ERT should be under captain command, I think the captain should have authority over the treatment or prosecution of his crew. What I mean by this is it's all well and good for the ERT to cart off some wizards or mercenary/raiders, because they are intruders and don't belong there, but I've been seeing the ERT getting kind of uppity and assuming that all the antagonists crew in the game just belong to them and can be carted off to the ERT shuttle and everyone else can go fuck themselves if they disagree - this is literally what I have been told by ERT members before, when asking for them to hold on so I could speak with someone who normally should have just been put into HuT. To fuck off. When I followed them up to the command floor later, I found out that this was apparently so they could strap said antag to a chair in their shuttle for the rest of the round and baton them every time they resisted, while not roleplaying and just talking to each other in LOOC.

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When you call ERT as a Captain, it is one of the last-ditch decisions you make. You are willfully turning over your operational authority to an external force, so they can solve the thread you already failed to handle.


This is why the ERT get a lot of power, it's operational and they need it for mission success. They exist outside of station hierarchy.

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When you call ERT as a Captain, it is one of the last-ditch decisions you make. You are willfully turning over your operational authority to an external force, so they can solve the thread you already failed to handle.


This is why the ERT get a lot of power, it's operational and they need it for mission success. They exist outside of station hierarchy.

 

I think the issue they're pointing out here is that it shouldn't be done without a good reason. It's not reasonable nor is it fun for people if a recently joined Captain or Command member is effectively removed from their position, little difference to a suspension to me.

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When you call ERT as a Captain, it is one of the last-ditch decisions you make. You are willfully turning over your operational authority to an external force, so they can solve the thread you already failed to handle.


This is why the ERT get a lot of power, it's operational and they need it for mission success. They exist outside of station hierarchy.

 

Good lord man, what is this drama you are unloading on us. Outside the station hierarchy does not mean above it, and there is absolutely no reason that the ERT need the authority of supreme operational power. The hypothetical captain you speak of calls an ERT to solve a problem that they feel cannot be resolved by the internal crew he has, but he's still in charge of his own vessel. There's no logical reason for the company hiring them to put more authority and trust in a bunch of gun toting mercenaries than the person they selected to oversee the functions of their entire research station. Their function is even described in their name - they are being called to respond to an emergency. Unless the captain is part of, or the cause of, the emergency they have been called to resolve, there is no reason they should be able to depose his authority on a passing whim.


And speaking from an out of character perspective, I once again reiterate that most ERT are composed at least partially of salty ghosts who died in-round, and have a personal beef with the antagonists they are going to fight. They are just a bunch of armed muscle, and their judgement is likely already compromised because of their previous failure to win against the antagonists. They don't really deserve the right to be treated like the Voice of Nanotrasen Executives just for clicking the 'join ERT' button, or given the power to overrule the person in charge of the station, unless said captain is somehow a danger to the station themselves. Calling an emergency response team is literally just calling for backup guns when you're out of options, there's no implied turning over of operational authority attached to it. Dismissing the captain from duty for literally no reason other than powerboner or giggles is incredibly stupid and should not be permitted, because it's not doing anything to resolve the problem.


No person in the game has no strings attached ultimate authority, not even the captain himself, who has to answer to CCIA if his conduct results in an IR. Don't give it to a disposable character whose personality and motivation can be summed up as 'validhunter'

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When you call ERT as a Captain, it is one of the last-ditch decisions you make. You are willfully turning over your operational authority to an external force, so they can solve the thread you already failed to handle.


This is why the ERT get a lot of power, it's operational and they need it for mission success. They exist outside of station hierarchy.

 

I think the issue they're pointing out here is that it shouldn't be done without a good reason. It's not reasonable nor is it fun for people if a recently joined Captain or Command member is effectively removed from their position, little difference to a suspension to me.

 

This is why the decision to call an ERT should be Captain's only, or require the swiping of all active command staff. By calling ERT, you make the decision to surrender your authority over the security effort. You still have authority, you can just be overriden. [mention]Skull132[/mention] explain to these people how you have in the past why ERT do the do.

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When you call ERT as a Captain, it is one of the last-ditch decisions you make. You are willfully turning over your operational authority to an external force, so they can solve the thread you already failed to handle.


This is why the ERT get a lot of power, it's operational and they need it for mission success. They exist outside of station hierarchy.

 

Good lord man, what is this drama you are unloading on us. Outside the station hierarchy does not mean above it, and there is absolutely no reason that the ERT need the authority of supreme operational power. The hypothetical captain you speak of calls an ERT to solve a problem that they feel cannot be resolved by the internal crew he has, but he's still in charge of his own vessel. There's no logical reason for the company hiring them to put more authority and trust in a bunch of gun toting mercenaries than the person they selected to oversee the functions of their entire research station. Their function is even described in their name - they are being called to respond to an emergency. Unless the captain is part of, or the cause of, the emergency they have been called to resolve, there is no reason they should be able to depose his authority on a passing whim.


And speaking from an out of character perspective, I once again reiterate that most ERT are composed at least partially of salty ghosts who died in-round, and have a personal beef with the antagonists they are going to fight. They are just a bunch of armed muscle, and their judgement is likely already compromised because of their previous failure to win against the antagonists. They don't really deserve the right to be treated like the Voice of Nanotrasen Executives just for clicking the 'join ERT' button, or given the power to overrule the person in charge of the station, unless said captain is somehow a danger to the station themselves. Calling an emergency response team is literally just calling for backup guns when you're out of options, there's no implied turning over of operational authority attached to it. Dismissing the captain from duty for literally no reason other than powerboner or giggles is incredibly stupid and should not be permitted, because it's not doing anything to resolve the problem.


No person in the game has no strings attached ultimate authority, not even the captain himself, who has to answer to CCIA if his conduct results in an IR. Don't give it to a disposable character whose personality and motivation can be summed up as 'validhunter'

 

ERT are like the police. If you are private security, and you call the police - you turn over the incident to them and police take control.

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The ERT guide is more focused on kit than process right now. We are looking to add the following to the wiki page under the "What do I do?" section.


-----

What do I do?


As a member of the ERT, your objective is to handle the emergency situation that the station has reported by any means necessary, and return the station to normal operations.


You have a selection of powerful equipment, an ID with all-access to the station's airlocks, and the authority to take charge of the station if you need to in order to accomplish your mission. However, remember that the Heads of Staff and Captain are the real people in charge of the facility. Your team shouldn't be relieving them of their duties or overriding their authority without a good reason for it, such as one being hostile, actively assisting hostile elements, or refusing to perform their job functions.


Once the emergency is contained, your team is expected to hand back control of the station to the crew and depart, or at worst, facilitate an evacuation or emergency crew transfer. ERT members should not indefinitely maintain control of the station.

-----


While this does not affect ERT's authority, it does create guidance on when they should use it - namely, only when doing so would help them contain the emergency they were called for, and only until that emergency is over. ERT and the station's chain of command are entirely separate structures with separate priorities at this level, and we should not be trying to place one above or underneath the other.


The takeaway for command should be that in calling the ERT, you are not in control of an emergency and should defer to the ERT in helping to contain it.

The takeaway for the ERT is that while you are there to normalize the situation, you are not normally responsible for station operations, and should try to leave anything not strictly important to your mission in the hands of command staff.

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That sounds pretty reasonable, Synnono. They should only have total authority in situations relevant to the emergency they are resolving.

 

ERT are like the police. If you are private security, and you call the police - you turn over the incident to them and police take control.

 

The private security may stand down, but police are not allowed to relieve the manager/supervisor on location of duty for no reason any more than than can summarily arrest someone on no charges. That's ridiculous abuse of exceeding authority.

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Managers of a business have no authority in the carrying out of law enforcement and emergency response duties LOL.

 

You aren't understanding the situation that I am trying to prevent, clearly, so I will explain it again.


This is not about captains giving orders or interfering with the ERT. I never asked for or expected for captains to have authority over emergency response duties.


This is about the ERT removing the captain and other command staff members from their position, without reason, so they sit in a back room of the bridge or the bar for the rest of the round, not performing their duties or assisting the crew in any way, presumably so the ERT members can feel like the biggest kids on the playground and stroke their egos.

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Managers of a business have no authority in the carrying out of law enforcement and emergency response duties LOL.

 

You aren't understanding the situation that I am trying to prevent, clearly, so I will explain it again.


This is not about captains giving orders or interfering with the ERT. I never asked for or expected for captains to have authority over emergency response duties.


This is about the ERT removing the captain and other command staff members from their position, without reason, so they sit in a back room of the bridge or the bar for the rest of the round, not performing their duties or assisting the crew in any way, presumably so the ERT members can feel like the biggest kids on the playground and stroke their egos.

 

I have never in my four years here on Aurora, seen this occur unless the Captain was actively interfering with the job/mission of the ERT.

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I could be partially wrong, I don't play ERT that much nor have I had much dealing with ERT as a whole while in server, but what would make sense is that they should not relieve the Captain of their post without a really good reason.


Examples would be post cloning insanity, violation of Biesel laws and such.


Has this issue been occurring a lot? Without sufficient reasoning?

 

I don't know how often it happens, but I do know that just last night I wandered by the captain and HoP in a cult round, and asked them for something, and were told that they had been relieved of duty by the ERT 'the moment they arrived'. They seemed like perfectly sane individuals who were not in need of arrest or therapy and were just enjoying coffees in the bridge lounge in the middle of a crisis.


That scenario is what prompted me to make this thread. The Captain (and really the whole command staff, but this could really fall under a 'the captain can veto them relieving his command staff' clause.) should not, barring some very specific reasons, be able to be relieved of duty on the whim of the ERT.

 

I was the HoP this round, and yes, it was ridiculous. Moreover, when we had a message from CentCom about being on red alert without notice for too long, the ERT scolded the Captain and said, and I'm not kidding here, "Just because you are relieved from duty does not mean you are not still responsible for the operation of this station."

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That sounds pretty reasonable, Synnono. They should only have total authority in situations relevant to the emergency they are resolving.

 

This is the current status quo and what they are supposed to be doing. ERT that are arbitrarily relieving the captain of command... rather than acting as a functionary that in the context of the emergency ranks above the captain... are exceeding their official powers and acting completely idiotic. I don't need multiple paragraphs to quantify how stupid it is for ERT to do this, but not much needs to change aside from the playerbase being encouraged to report beyond-borderline IC things and the administration being encouraged to slam the hammer down more for bad roleplaying.

 

I was the HoP this round, and yes, it was ridiculous. Moreover, when we had a message from CentCom about being on red alert without notice for too long, the ERT scolded the Captain and said, and I'm not kidding here, "Just because you are relieved from duty does not mean you are not still responsible for the operation of this station."

 

Yeah, those players are idiots and I'd support an ERT ban on whoever was playing those folks. Open up a complaint on whoever it was and I'd happily support whatever punitive action they get for it.


I mostly just don't understand how ERT don't need a whitelist and get operational authority above command staff, honestly, there's a power dynamic issue here.

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I have never in my four years here on Aurora, seen this occur unless the Captain was actively interfering with the job/mission of the ERT.

 

I believe this happened like four days ago. It was pretty silly. That being said, let’s be careful not to overreact here.

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