Jump to content

Misconceptions


Korinra

Recommended Posts

There are SO many IC misconceptions that people have, so I'd like to begin a list! Feel free to suggest more to add:


1) Security doesn't need a warrant if an officer sees the problem.

2) A dead body has three conditions in which it should not be cloned: Suicide/Violent Offender/Medical Records has DNC on it.

3) Warden/Detective/CIA are not officers and should never be expected to act like one. They have their own duties to handle, and should be expected to handle them at all times.

4) The AI does not outrank the Captain. Station bound synthetics are the lowest rank on the station.

5) The Captain does not outrank NT's operating procedures. Unless there is a case that following the procedures will result in catastrophe, they should be followed. That means, if there is an emergency, follow the emergency procedures unless doing so makes the problem worse.

6) On that same note, the Captain should not ever be fighting alongside Security. A good Captain steps in as a department head when needed, and delegates while working with other staff heads.

7) No rank outranks another with the exception of: Captain outranks everyone, followed by staff heads, then staff, then AI. IAA is an unusual exception, who technically doesn't "outrank" anyone, but has the power to dismiss anyone of their position (including Captains), if the situation needs it (VERY rare though).

8) Metagaming is knowing ANY details about antagonists. Saw a guy in all blue with a pointed hat? I bet you think wizard. YOU think wizard, your character SHOULD be thinking, "Weird stow-away with no ID".

9) The Merchant's ship is NOT NanoTrasen property. As such, an officer standing on the Merchant's ship would be out of line if they detain the Merchant for something they did on their ship. If the Merchant begins attacking people on his own ship, it's fine to step in to protect the crew, but if the Merchant isn't hurting anyone, Security can not hold him to ANY other law legally. If he steps OFF his ship, he IMMEDIATELY agrees to follow NanoTrasen's laws though, meaning he can wave a gun around on his ship, but if he steps OFF the ship with it, officers can demand he go back to his ship to stow the gun.

10) The Chaplain isn't NECESSARILY a religious person, they might be a Councilor who is there for emotional support rather than religious support.

11) Petting a Tajara is not Sexual Assault, it're closer to Battery (unwanted physical contact).

12) A medical personnel who moves a dead body can be arrested for tampering with evidence under i221 - Gross Negligence, this has a minimum sentence of 15 minutes and/or demotion, with a maximum of 20 minutes AND/OR Demotion. Don't touch that body till CSI tells you to.

13) If an officer touches you BEFORE asking you to come with them peacefully, they are in violation of i117 - Excessive use of force in detainment. The most they can possibly do without breaking the law is apply handcuffs and lead you. If they flash you and you didn't move, they've broken the law. Even if VERBALLY you rejected them, force it to be used against people who RESIST, not people who verbally DISAGREE.

14) In code yellow, you are still to be treated as if it were code green, but if an officer says they need into your office to deal with a threat, you're breaking the law not to let them in. It must be a reasonable request though. "I need to get in there to deal with the blob", is a fair request that you should comply with.

15) If someone killed you somewhat pointlessly, it's OK to ask admin if that was a valid kill. If they tell you it is, be kind, thank them for their help and tell them you don't need additional help. If however they tell you it was valid and you yell at them about how you think it wasn't, ask the next person you see to flick your ear as hard as they can, you've earned it.

16) A 'valid' is a kill that is within the rules.

17) Officers can arrest staff heads, even the Captain, provided sufficient evidence presents that they've broken the law. NO ONE is above the law EVER.

18) No position is EVER a defacto position for a higher rank. Warden =/= HoS when there is no HoS, HoP =/= Captain when no Captain is present. NO ranks do that.

19) Security doesn't assess guilt, they assess threat. If they arrest you and you were innocent, you MIGHT be charged as guilty simply because the evidence IMPLIES you're guilty, and the arrest is to prevent threat. That's why they're called SECURITY officers and not POLICE officers. Their duty is keeping the station as a whole safe, not policing behavior. This is also why they handle threats like Carp and Spiders. Station Security.

20) You can resign from you position if you don't like your staff head, and be temporarily demoted to Visitor/Assistant. From a lore standpoint, this should be SUPER rare, as you wouldn't get paid for that. But if you just can't stand him/her anymore, stop dealing with them, and file an IR complaint. If you CAN stand to deal with them, you can still file an IR complaint, and simply keep working too. If they retaliate to a valid complaint, CCIA will bully them into submission.

Edited by Guest
Link to comment

There are SO many IC misconceptions that people have, so I'd like to begin a list! Feel free to suggest more to add:


2) A dead body has three conditions in which it should not be cloned: Suicide/Violent Offender/Medical Records has DNC on it.

5) The Captain does not outrank NT's operating procedures. Unless there is a case that following the procedures will result in catastrophe, they should be followed. That means, if there is an emergency, follow the emergency procedures unless doing so makes the problem worse.

17) Officers can arrest staff heads, even the Captain, provided sufficient evidence presents that they've broken the law. NO ONE is above the law EVER.

 

You're dead wrong on these three.


1. The first one, violent offenders are not an immediate DNC nor should they be. Execution is not a permissible punishment, and should someone die during engagement - they should be cloned or cyborgified, unless Security simply cannot expend resources to contain them (lings, vampires, wizards, cultists). Only the CMO and Captain, or the patient themselves can order a DNC.


2. The Captain outranks procedure. The Captain's authority is ultimate, unbending and unforgiving. If their order is against regulations, or the law - you follow it and report the issue after the fact. I feel like you're the Warden that refused to hand out carbines yesterday when I asked because it was code blue and I was not willing to raise us to red. Anyways, citation: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=10205 , and the CCIA announcement that literally says the Captain's authority is ultimate.


3). Officers can arrest heads of staff, but they cannot arrest the Captain except in the event that Captain is basically committing murder. As per corporate regulations, which are assigned to the company by the government - Captains can only be arrested when Station Command votes, as a whole and unanimously, to authorize a warrant. Citation from the wiki for this:

 

The Captain is not above Corporate Regulations, and can be arrested by Security for breaking them - but ONLY if the Heads of Staff agree in a unanimous decision or it is ordered by Central Command.

Link to comment

other with the exception of: Captain outranks everyone, followed by staff heads, then staff, then AI. IAA is an unusual exception, who technically doesn't "outrank" anyone, but has the power to dismiss anyone of their position (including Captains), if the situation needs it (VERY rare though).

 

Also wrong.


Firstly, IAA can not at any time, without having contacted and receiving the approval of Central Command Internal Affairs, relieve anyone - especially the Captain, of their position. An IAA trying to remove forcefully someone from their position without consulting the command structure is exceeding their authority. An IAA trying to remove a Head or the Captain without consulting the command structure is committing sedition and mutiny.


Additionally, you're missing a few subtle intricacies.


The Captain outranks everyone.


Heads of Staff outranks everyone, except one another.Except in their own departments - where their authority is above their fellow Heads.

All Heads of Staff can order all staff. Staff follow orders in the following chain: Captain>Direct Head of Staff>All other Heads of Staff


Then you have department staff. Cargo has a quartermaster, who is their supervisor - they must follow his orders unless they contradict the Head of Personnel's. Security has a Warden, within the brig - Security must follow and acknowledge his orders if it is in relation in of itself, to the brig's operation.


Then you have interns. Interns follow the orders of all staff within their department, to the best of their abilities.


Then you have assistants, assistants answer to either an assigned/chosen leader, OR everyone on board.


Then you have the AI, who commands the synthetics (that are BOUND to them, unbound synths have no obligation to listen to the AI, even if lawed.)

Link to comment

8) Metagaming is knowing ANY details about antagonists. Saw a guy in all blue with a pointed hat? I bet you think wizard. YOU think wizard, your character SHOULD be thinking, "Weird stow-away with no ID".


9) The Merchant's ship is NOT NanoTrasen property. As such, an officer standing on the Merchant's ship would be out of line if they detain the Merchant for something they did on their ship. If the Merchant begins attacking people on his own ship, it's fine to step in to protect the crew, but if the Merchant isn't hurting anyone, Security can not hold him to ANY other law legally. If he steps OFF his ship, he IMMEDIATELY agrees to follow NanoTrasen's laws though, meaning he can wave a gun around on his ship, but if he steps OFF the ship with it, officers can demand he go back to his ship to stow the gun.

 

Oof, two more.


1. Bad example. Wizard's primary outfits are very stylistic and emblematic of what a wizard is. We have posters on board with the words 'SPACE WIZARD' embossed on them and a painting of a wizard in blue on the front. Wizards are still part of popular culture mythos. It would be perfectly normal to assume this is a "weirdo" trying to dress up or act like a wizard, and even use the word wizard to describe them.


2. Merchants are allowed to have a gun on them, they are even allowed to wave it around on board the station if they are not pointing it at anybody. They are allowed a single gun on them of their choice, whenever they leave their ship. This is a protected right under the Merchant's directive.

Link to comment

12) A medical personnel who moves a dead body can be arrested for tampering with evidence under Sabotage i213, this has a minimum sentence of 15 minutes and/or demotion, with a maximum of 30 minutes AND suspension AND/OR tracking implant. Don't touch that body till CSI tells you to.

 

Yikes, got another. I should've made these all in one post.


From corporate regulations, i213 is 'Sabotage':

To hinder the efforts of the crew or station with malicious intent.	
This includes causing hull breaches, sabotaging air supplies, stealing vital equipment, etc. The intent is the most important bit here.

 

It specifically requires, by definition, malicious intent. Medical staff recovering a body for the sake of treating/cloning it, is not in any way obviously malicious. The most appropriate charge would be i206 Neglect of Duty, at the determination of the Chief Medical Officer, or i221 Gross Negligence, which can be authorized by the Warden or Head of Security through warrant.

Link to comment

There are SO many IC misconceptions that people have, so I'd like to begin a list! Feel free to suggest more to add:


2) A dead body has three conditions in which it should not be cloned: Suicide/Violent Offender/Medical Records has DNC on it.

5) The Captain does not outrank NT's operating procedures. Unless there is a case that following the procedures will result in catastrophe, they should be followed. That means, if there is an emergency, follow the emergency procedures unless doing so makes the problem worse.

17) Officers can arrest staff heads, even the Captain, provided sufficient evidence presents that they've broken the law. NO ONE is above the law EVER.

 

You're dead wrong on these three.


1. The first one, violent offenders are not an immediate DNC nor should they be. Execution is not a permissible punishment, and should someone die during engagement - they should be cloned or cyborgified, unless Security simply cannot expend resources to contain them (lings, vampires, wizards, cultists). Only the CMO and Captain, or the patient themselves can order a DNC.

 

You're right that Execution is not legal, but per the Wiki: The NSS Aurora is in Tau Ceti space, which does not consider cyborgification capital punishment, making it an optional punishment. This means they shouldn't be cloned, they SHOULD be borged.

 

2) The Captain outranks procedure. The Captain's authority is ultimate, unbending and unforgiving. If their order is against regulations, or the law - you follow it and report the issue after the fact. I feel like you're the Warden that refused to hand out carbines yesterday when I asked because it was code blue and I was not willing to raise us to red. Anyways, citation: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=10205 , and the CCIA announcement that literally says the Captain's authority is ultimate.

 

Per the Wiki: Captains should follow Corporate Regulations and Security has the power to arrest the Captain if they do not.

This simply means, Captains word is not ultimate. The thing a lot of people forget, NT outranks the Captain, and Corporate law, is law made by the Captain's boss. IAA is there to enforce corporate law, and make sure that the staff heads aren't bending rules unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary for them to do so.

 

3). Officers can arrest heads of staff, but they cannot arrest the Captain except in the event that Captain is basically committing murder. As per corporate regulations, which are assigned to the company by the government - Captains can only be arrested when Station Command votes, as a whole and unanimously, to authorize a warrant. Citation from the wiki for this:

 

The Captain is not above Corporate Regulations, and can be arrested by Security for breaking them - but ONLY if the Heads of Staff agree in a unanimous decision or it is ordered by Central Command.

 

So you're saying that the Captain is above the law, but then showing an example where my point that Security CAN arrest him is made? I'm sorry I don't think I follow how you're disagreeing with me while showing how I'm right. I didn't say they could slap a set of cuffs on him at their whim, I said they COULD arrest him and here you are showing how they can do that while saying they can't...

 

Firstly, IAA can not at any time, without having contacted and receiving the approval of Central Command Internal Affairs, relieve anyone - especially the Captain, of their position. An IAA trying to remove forcefully someone from their position without consulting the command structure is exceeding their authority. An IAA trying to remove a Head or the Captain without consulting the command structure is committing sedition and mutiny.

 

IAA can and SHOULD know this: IAA has a fax machine in their office. That fax machine is for them to report to CCIA any station infractions that need rectification from outside sources. Simply put, if the Captain demands officers to walk around with weapons displayed during code green, and refuses to back down despite that being a clear violation of corporate regulations, he faxes CCIA, who will then make the final call (which a good IAA would never fax without knowing the answer). That being said, this has been discussed in GREAT detail in the Discord. IAA outranks no one, but can demote anyone. They have loyalty implants, and MUST follow the corporate regulations at ALL times. That is their exact job description. If someone fails to follow corporate rules, IAA reports to their staff head with the intent that the person be forced into obeying or demoted, and that applies to the Captain too. If the Captain fails to follow the Captain's boss' rules, the IAA talks to the Captain's boss, CCIA, and a message is sent to the station calling for the demotion of the Captain.

 

Additionally, you're missing a few subtle intricacies.


The Captain outranks everyone.

True, I agree

 

Heads of Staff outranks everyone, except one another.Except in their own departments - where their authority is above their fellow Heads.

All Heads of Staff can order all staff. Staff follow orders in the following chain: Captain>Direct Head of Staff>All other Heads of Staff

Right, you're departmentalizing a statement that was provided as a blanket statement. Yes if the RD tells a scientist to do something and the CMO tells them not to, a smart scientist will ignore the CMO's orders. That doesn't mean the RD outranks the CMO though, the staff are paid by the RD's budget, so ignoring the person who pays you is grounds for NOT being paid. It's not a question of rank, it's a question of paycheck. However yes, each department head has a place they have more control of then OTHER department heads. But that isn't to say my statement is wrong.

 

Then you have department staff. Cargo has a quartermaster, who is their supervisor - they must follow his orders unless they contradict the Head of Personnel's. Security has a Warden, within the brig - Security must follow and acknowledge his orders if it is in relation in of itself, to the brig's operation.

Quartermaster is not a staff head, so HoP DOES outrank Quartermaster as a staff head. Warden is also not a staff head, and does not outrank Security Officers. HOWEVER, he DOES have the authority over the brig (not the Security department, just the cells). Following the Warden's instructions in the brig is specifically mentioned on the condition that the Warden is following Corporate's laws about HOW the brig is to be run. The Warden's job isn't to control the inmates only though, it's to PROTECT the inmates from the officers as well, that's why that authority exists. The warden is supposed to be the peaceful mediator between officers and prisoners.

 

Then you have interns. Interns follow the orders of all staff within their department, to the best of their abilities.

Interns aren't BELOW regular members of the staff, they're just less trained. That means they're often paired with more experienced staff to help them learn. But an officer can not fire a cadet. Bottom line, they don't outrank the cadet.

 

Then you have assistants, assistants answer to either an assigned/chosen leader, OR everyone on board.

Assistants aren't outranked by departmental employees. They're on the same level, under the department head HoP. Their job is to assist in menial tasks (from an OOC standpoint they are a position for newer players to get to know the game with). They are not outranked by regular crew.

 

Then you have the AI, who commands the synthetics (that are BOUND to them, unbound synths have no obligation to listen to the AI, even if lawed.)

Yes, like I said before, AI has the least authority, that is correct. It has the most control, but no actual say in how it uses that control.

 

1. Bad example. Wizard's primary outfits are very stylistic and emblematic of what a wizard is. We have posters on board with the words 'SPACE WIZARD' embossed on them and a painting of a wizard in blue on the front. Wizards are still part of popular culture mythos. It would be perfectly normal to assume this is a "weirdo" trying to dress up or act like a wizard, and even use the word wizard to describe them.

So if you saw someone wearing that in real life you'd think they were honestly a Wizard? I fear for that mentality. I'd think they were some weirdo in a Wizard costume, an actor, or a cosplayer of some kind.

 

2. Merchants are allowed to have a gun on them, they are even allowed to wave it around on board the station if they are not pointing it at anybody. They are allowed a single gun on them of their choice, whenever they leave their ship. This is a protected right under the Merchant's directive.

Again I defer to the wiki: If you brought a sweet gun defense weapon aboard, you should keep it concealed unless it absolutely has to be fired. Command Staff has the right to prohibit you from bringing personal weapons aboard (though they shouldn't do this unless they have a good reason), and they may also impose restrictions on you that are not otherwise listed in the regulations or directives. You are a visitor on a very fancy research station - treat it and its crew with respect.

This means that yes, you CAN be told that carrying a gun is illegal, and be told to bring it back to the Merchant ship. They SHOULD be telling you if it's a problem before you leave the ship. They CAN opt to tell you NEVER to bring it on station, but usually shouldn't. The fact is, they have the right to say no to you having a gun on the Aurora.

 

Yikes, got another. I should've made these all in one post.


From corporate regulations, i213 is 'Sabotage':

Code: Select all


To hinder the efforts of the crew or station with malicious intent.

This includes causing hull breaches, sabotaging air supplies, stealing vital equipment, etc. The intent is the most important bit here.

It specifically requires, by definition, malicious intent. Medical staff recovering a body for the sake of treating/cloning it, is not in any way obviously malicious. The most appropriate charge would be i206 Neglect of Duty, at the determination of the Chief Medical Officer, or i221 Gross Negligence, which can be authorized by the Warden or Head of Security through warrant.

 

Azande

NanoTrasen Official

Posts:

620

Joined:

Mon Dec 12, 2016 5:02 pm

Contact:

Send private message

Re: CSI Unplayable (A plea to HOS/Captain/Warden/Security)#9

ben10083 wrote: ↑

Thu Apr 12, 2018 1:41 pm

Perhaps regulations should have a moderate level crime called "Impeding a Investigation" which punishes players for contaminating evidence and removing the victim from scene.

Do you mean.... Sabotage?


But really, none of this is an issue - if someone contaminates the scene, tell your Head of Security and continue to collect evidence.

Editor of the Aurora Tribune

Clerk of the NanoTrasen Worker's Association

Mentor in NT-ISD Discord


That is YOU calling it sabotage in another thread... that exact example no less. Did something change in the last 8 days?

Link to comment


You're right that Execution is not legal, but per the Wiki: The NSS Aurora is in Tau Ceti space, which does not consider cyborgification capital punishment, making it an optional punishment. This means they shouldn't be cloned, they SHOULD be borged.



Per the Wiki: Captains should follow Corporate Regulations and Security has the power to arrest the Captain if they do not.

This simply means, Captains word is not ultimate. The thing a lot of people forget, NT outranks the Captain, and Corporate law, is law made by the Captain's boss. IAA is there to enforce corporate law, and make sure that the staff heads aren't bending rules unless it's ABSOLUTELY necessary for them to do so.


So you're saying that the Captain is above the law, but then showing an example where my point that Security CAN arrest him is made? I'm sorry I don't think I follow how you're disagreeing with me while showing how I'm right. I didn't say they could slap a set of cuffs on him at their whim, I said they COULD arrest him and here you are showing how they can do that while saying they can't...


That being said, this has been discussed in GREAT detail in the Discord. IAA outranks no one, but can demote anyone. They have loyalty implants, and MUST follow the corporate regulations at ALL times.


Interns aren't BELOW regular members of the staff, they're just less trained. That means they're often paired with more experienced staff to help them learn. But an officer can not fire a cadet. Bottom line, they don't outrank the cadet.


Assistants aren't outranked by departmental employees. They're on the same level, under the department head HoP. Their job is to assist in menial tasks (from an OOC standpoint they are a position for newer players to get to know the game with). They are not outranked by regular crew.


That is YOU calling it sabotage in another thread... that exact example no less. Did something change in the last 8 days?

 

1. Station Command has to authorize a cyborgification for it to be authorized, Security cannot presume command will authorize one. Cloning should happen if Command refuses.


2. As per CCIA, aka NT. The Captain is the ultimate authority. They specifically say that the Captain can override regulations if the Captain decides it is necessary, and it specifically says the crew has to follow even illegal orders. The Captain is NanoTrasen's chief presence on board. You can argue, but CCIA and our Headmins can re-affirm what I am saying by showing you the thread from our Loremaster, or Central Command Notice of Captain's Ultimate Authority.


2.5. Security cannot arrest the Captain without Command, and there is no guarantee that Command will authorize an arrest. Without Command, Security cannot arrest the Captain - any attempts would be mutiny in both the eyes of the Captain and Central Command, this is a good way to have an ERT come to end you. You cannot tell people that Security can arrest the Captain without informing them of the command-vote stipulation.


3. IAA cannot demote anyone. Central Command demotes people on a report from the IAA, or the IAA convinces a Head of Staff to demote someone. The IAA themselves has no power to demote someone of their own individual personhood. I am one of two IAA players - trust and listen to me. Discussions on discord mean nothing - people send me pictures of cute dogs, genitals, and memes on discord, this does not make official policy. The thread I linked is official policy.


4. Interns are below regular staff, that is how a trainer>trainee relationship works. Lesser-trained staff answer to actually trained professionals. Cadet and Officers specifically, the titles imply a rank difference. Ranking has nothing to do with being able to fire or demote people, rank is order of precedence for orders. I had a manager at Walmart who directed me, they could not fire me - then I had a higher manager that could fire me.


5. Round-start text for the assistant, and I quote is "You answer to EVERYONE" . Case closed.


6. I have re-read the sabotage regulation, and realized it does not properly apply as worded to people moving bodies, and instead Gross Negligence is applicable.

Link to comment

Oh, and to touch on interns and assistants again, here's station directives (which are above Corporate Regulations)

 

Regarding Departmental Ranking - Station Directive 3

To clarify the initial status for some roles, and their position in the department Chain of Command.


Unless stated otherwise, all Departmental Staff are equal in rank, with differing responsibilities and assignments. The only exception being the Quartermaster, who can act as an authority over the Cargo Technicians and asteroid mining staff, however, this does not necessarily make him the preferred choice for promotion up the chain, nor does his authority extend anywhere beyond that. Below them are Departmental Assistants/Interns/Apprentices, and standard Assistants.

Link to comment


17) Officers can arrest staff heads, even the Captain, provided sufficient evidence presents that they've broken the law. NO ONE is above the law EVER.

 

 

And another thing on this - if Command votes to deny an arrest warrant against the Captain - even if the Captain is guilty, and admits to being guilty, guess what?

 

trump%2Bailes%2Bsmirk.jpg

 

It means he/she has successfully broken and ended up above the law, ;)

Link to comment
1. Station Command has to authorize a cyborgification for it to be authorized, Security cannot presume command will authorize one. Cloning should happen if Command refuses.


2. As per CCIA, aka NT. The Captain is the ultimate authority. They specifically say that the Captain can override regulations if the Captain decides it is necessary, and it specifically says the crew has to follow even illegal orders. The Captain is NanoTrasen's chief presence on board. You can argue, but CCIA and our Headmins can re-affirm what I am saying by showing you the thread from our Loremaster, or Central Command Notice of Captain's Ultimate Authority.


2.5. Security cannot arrest the Captain without Command, and there is no guarantee that Command will authorize an arrest. Without Command, Security cannot arrest the Captain - any attempts would be mutiny in both the eyes of the Captain and Central Command, this is a good way to have an ERT come to end you. You cannot tell people that Security can arrest the Captain without informing them of the command-vote stipulation.


3. IAA cannot demote anyone. Central Command demotes people on a report from the IAA, or the IAA convinces a Head of Staff to demote someone. The IAA themselves has no power to demote someone of their own individual personhood. I am one of two IAA players - trust and listen to me. Discussions on discord mean nothing - people send me pictures of cute dogs, genitals, and memes on discord, this does not make official policy. The thread I linked is official policy.


4. Interns are below regular staff, that is how a trainer>trainee relationship works. Lesser-trained staff answer to actually trained professionals. Cadet and Officers specifically, the titles imply a rank difference. Ranking has nothing to do with being able to fire or demote people, rank is order of precedence for orders. I had a manager at Walmart who directed me, they could not fire me - then I had a higher manager that could fire me.


5. Round-start text for the assistant, and I quote is "You answer to EVERYONE" . Case closed.


6. I have re-read the sabotage regulation, and realized it does not properly apply as worded to people moving bodies, and instead Gross Negligence is applicable.

 

1) i301 Murder To kill someone, or attempt to kill someone, with premeditated malicious intent. Also cover Attempted Murder. The premeditated and malicious bit is important here. Cyorgification or Holding Until Transfer on majority Command decision.

I'm guessing this is what you're referencing. So your options, when dealing with a murderer, are; A) Hold them in a cell until transfer or B) Cyborgification, and Command chooses which one of these. Right, I agree, are you going to vote to throw the corpse into a cell? Or are you going to vote to throw it into a cyborg?


2) The Captain is not ultimate in any sense of the word, and I'll address that in 2.5.


2.5) Ok, so here's the example I give. The exact wording on the Captain's authority as as follows:

Authority

The Captain has the final say on almost every matter on the station. If the Captain tells someone to do something they better do it, or have an exceptionally good reason to not do so. Captains should follow Corporate Regulations and Security has the power to arrest the Captain if they do not. The only time Corporate Regulations may be overridden is if there is an imminent and overwhelming threat to the station.


Situations where the captain's orders are overridden are rare, but may include orders that would cause unnecessary and large amounts of damage to people or property, or are simply outrageously stupid. For example, ordering the Chief Engineer to vent the bar of atmosphere as people are getting slightly tipsy. This is not the norm however, and generally people should follow whatever the captain says.

----------------

This means, the Captain CAN be ignored in extreme circumstances, his authority amounting to nil if he abuses it. He does NOT have ultimate authority, as it gives examples where his authority stops (therefore NOT ultimate). Additionally, if he's the only staff head, then in a 0/0 vote, all OTHER staff heads unanimously agree, as not one single staff head disagreed. Bottom line, Captain isn't ultimate, the wiki even says that he's not. Yes if he gives a legal command, "RD, I want you to stop Phoron experimentation for the shift, and put more effort into R&D", the RD is obligated to obey that. That command is not dangerous or illegal, so it should be followed. Failing to do so would be criminal. However, "RD, Science is stupid, I want you to blow that department up", is dangerous, reckless, and plain stupid. You would LEGALLY be allowed to ignore that command from the Captain, so much for "ultimate authority". This also means the Captain is NOT able to change corporate procedures at his whim. The Captain isn't NT's chief anything, he's a crew member just like the janitor. He just has more authority over the crew. NT owns multiple stations (like the Odin), and the Corporate laws extend FROM the Odin over to the Aurora. The Captain is a small piece of the NT brand. His authority is STATION policy, but Corporate Policy is just that, Corporate (applying to ALL stations). Remember, because it's Corporate, it applies to the Odin too. That means, if you are saying he has the authority to change things from that list of policies, he can change them on the Odin too, and that simply isn't true.


3) Quote "More often than not, security officers and heads of staff will ignore your complaints. The best course of action in this scenario is to take your complaint to the Head of Security, and failing that, the Captain. If nobody on the station is listening to you, it is within your power to inform Central Command about the station crew's (lack of) cooperation. NanoTrasen Command usually takes the side of Internal Affairs Agents because they are loyal and trained in procedure and Corporate Regulations. A single Internal Affairs Agent has the power to make a crewmember's life miserable; it is a bad idea to mess with Internal Affairs!"

Yes, saying, IAA doesn't DIRECTLY fire someone is true, but saying they don't have the POWER to get you fired, is false. IAA can and will get a Captain demoted in a snap if they're not following NT procedures. Do they sign off the paperwork? Nope, but as someone who has seen it happen, IAA CAN get a Captain fired without much more than a fax.


4) I will concede the point about interns, I looked further and found that to be kind of true, but still not really relating to the point I made initially. They are outranked.

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Chain_of_Command


5) I encourage you to click to the previous link, which shows Assistant having less say than anyone, but ONLY answering to staff heads.


6) OK I'll update my initial post to say Gross Negligence.


I've read othe rposts leading up to here, but they're too nitpicky to mention individually. If the HoS says, "I don't want his guns on station", then Security can ask for them not to bring it. Bottom line, yes, I'm sure you could nitpick where the order comes from, but my point is in who ENFORCES it. If an officer asks you to go back to your ship with your gun, you don't just flip him off and walk away, you have two options as a merchant, confirm with staff heads or comply. Chances are, if officers are asking, the heads will agree with it (even if they didn't initially instruct it honestly). That's the whole thing though, yes you're right about how you nitpick the point, but the point is STILL RIGHT.

Link to comment

Right, I agree, are you going to vote to throw the corpse into a cell? Or are you going to vote to throw it into a cyborg?


The Captain is not ultimate in any sense of the word, and I'll address that in 2.5.


Ok, so here's the example I give. The exact wording on the Captain's authority as as follows:

Authority

The Captain has the final say on almost every matter on the station. If the Captain tells someone to do something they better do it, or have an exceptionally good reason to not do so. Captains should follow Corporate Regulations and Security has the power to arrest the Captain if they do not. The only time Corporate Regulations may be overridden is if there is an imminent and overwhelming threat to the station.


Situations where the captain's orders are overridden are rare, but may include orders that would cause unnecessary and large amounts of damage to people or property, or are simply outrageously stupid. For example, ordering the Chief Engineer to vent the bar of atmosphere as people are getting slightly tipsy. This is not the norm however, and generally people should follow whatever the captain says.

----------------

This means, the Captain CAN be ignored in extreme circumstances, his authority amounting to nil if he abuses it. He does NOT have ultimate authority, as it gives examples where his authority stops (therefore NOT ultimate). Additionally, if he's the only staff head, then in a 0/0 vote, all OTHER staff heads unanimously agree, as not one single staff head disagreed. Bottom line, Captain isn't ultimate, the wiki even says that he's not. Yes if he gives a legal command, "RD, I want you to stop Phoron experimentation for the shift, and put more effort into R&D", the RD is obligated to obey that. That command is not dangerous or illegal, so it should be followed. Failing to do so would be criminal. However, "RD, Science is stupid, I want you to blow that department up", is dangerous, reckless, and plain stupid. You would LEGALLY be allowed to ignore that command from the Captain, so much for "ultimate authority". This also means the Captain is NOT able to change corporate procedures at his whim. The Captain isn't NT's chief anything, he's a crew member just like the janitor. He just has more authority over the crew. NT owns multiple stations (like the Odin), and the Corporate laws extend FROM the Odin over to the Aurora. The Captain is a small piece of the NT brand. His authority is STATION policy, but Corporate Policy is just that, Corporate (applying to ALL stations). Remember, because it's Corporate, it applies to the Odin too. That means, if you are saying he has the authority to change things from that list of policies, he can change them on the Odin too, and that simply isn't true.


IAA CAN get a Captain fired without much more than a fax.


I encourage you to click to the previous link, which shows Assistant having less say than anyone, but ONLY answering to staff heads.

 

 

1. You will be damned if you find a head of staff willing to vote for cybogrification unless they're an RD or HoS. I have had two cyborgification votes ever result in an aye, and 90% of the time as Captain, I make the decision without consulting command because I know how it'd end up (without the person being borged)


2. The Captain is the ultimate authority on board. Our Head Admins will tell you this, our Head CCIA will tell you this, our Loremaster will tell you this. CCIA Notice on Captain's Authority and jackboot's wiki post tell you this, the multiple threads on captains in the Head of Staff forum area tell you this.


The Captain can change certain (most) policies if they need too. The Captain is NanoTrasen's primary representative and authority on board. Here is the CCIA Notice on Captains.

 

This is a reminder that the station's assigned Captain has full authority over the operation of the station. He or she is authorized to shut down departments at their discretion, reassign crew members, issue direct orders to all crew members on the station, and take actions within reason that may violate regulations in non-standard situations.


The Captain is loyalty implanted, and is therefore trusted to act in the best interests of the company, crew, and station he or she is assigned to. Any complaints or concerns over the Captain's decisions should be addressed after their orders have been carried out, and after the situation that prompted those orders has been resolved.

 

They are the ultimate operational authority on board, meaning unless external authorities are brought in, they are the ultimate on board. He is not a crew member like a Janitor, the Captain gets paid exorbitant amounts of money per day, and controls a nuclear weapon of mass destruction. Corporate law doesn't extend anywhere over whatever. Each station follows 'Corporate Regulations', and then each station has their own set of 'Station Directives' tailored to their facility. An example of policies the Captain can change: Fining first instead of brig sentences, no-smoking sign rules, who is and is not allowed to drink at the bar. The list goes on. The Captain has an incredible amount of sway over many policies on board. They simply cannot change the definitions on the corporate regulations wiki page.


3. Getting a Captain fired as IAA is next to impossible unless they murdered someone. Sorry, this is the truth. I used to main IAA, and I still play it (one of two players that play it often). Let me tell you a story, a Captain suspended someone because the person refused to take off a luchador mask. The person complained to my IAA, I filed a report alongside the Chief Engineer who did not approve of the action (the person who was suspended was an engineer). The demotion was highly questionable, the person didn't violate any serious regulation aside from joking around with a mask, and their head of staff was not consulted. Do you know what Central Command said? They overrode the demotion! For the ten minutes left of the round... Then, the player filed an IR against the Captain to see real action taken, I was listed as a witness and handling agent, do you know what happened then?


I was told off by the CCIA Supervisor for even considering reporting a Captain for something less than murder, and to never question the Captain - despite it being a CCIA's decision to override the Captain.


5. The link you shared is both Work in Progress and legacy, it is so old that it uses 'Nursing Intern' instead of 'Medical Resident', a change that happened ages ago. Not credible for your assistant gambit - Station Directives are up to date and override WIP wiki pages.

Link to comment

The fact this thread is called 'Misconceptions' and the author has misconceptions of the misconceptions is ironic.


This thread brought up a interesting point that I want to quickly bring up, Command rarely does borging. Like come ON guys, borgifications benefits the station and the round in SO many ways! You can have unrest to the decision (muh RP), you get to have the roboticist do something that isnt repairing synthetic #4012's minor dent, and you get to have a loyal slave robot thaet can fix all the damage the antag done.


Ok rant aside, if there is no command other than captain and he/she/it commits a crime, guess what? You are royalty screwed in terms of protocal and regulation.

Link to comment

Here's a misconception for you.


Cyborgification was allowed back when becoming a cyborg was enslavement but you would retain some of your personality.


With the current lore you die and your brain is used as a component. This is worse than execution as you aren't only killed, but have your organs harvested for profits.


I brought this up a few times but no one has went and changed the wiki yet, lorewise borging people should be more controversial than execution.

Link to comment

[mention]Korinra[/mention]


You seem to be using an odd snippet of evidence in favor of your view on the captain. I'm not 100% sure where it's from, but I believe that's an excerpt from the Captain guide page, correct?



An OOC "you should probably do this" note does not equate to a hard IC regulatory/legal stance. Yes, a captain should generally follow regulations and generally CCIA/station command would authorise a warrant against a captain massively abusing their power (or they'd just get bwoinked,) but that is not expected to happen considering the vetting NT's captains go through. Instead, captains are given the authority and regulatory lee-way to be able to do essentially anything they need to in order to maintain effective operation of the station.



Essentially, the CCIA notice trumps an OOCly suggested guideline.

Link to comment

1. You will be damned if you find a head of staff willing to vote for cybogrification unless they're an RD or HoS. I have had two cyborgification votes ever result in an aye, and 90% of the time as Captain, I make the decision without consulting command because I know how it'd end up (without the person being borged)


2. The Captain is the ultimate authority on board. Our Head Admins will tell you this, our Head CCIA will tell you this, our Loremaster will tell you this. CCIA Notice on Captain's Authority and jackboot's wiki post tell you this, the multiple threads on captains in the Head of Staff forum area tell you this.


The Captain can change certain (most) policies if they need too. The Captain is NanoTrasen's primary representative and authority on board. Here is the CCIA Notice on Captains.

 

This is a reminder that the station's assigned Captain has full authority over the operation of the station. He or she is authorized to shut down departments at their discretion, reassign crew members, issue direct orders to all crew members on the station, and take actions within reason that may violate regulations in non-standard situations.


The Captain is loyalty implanted, and is therefore trusted to act in the best interests of the company, crew, and station he or she is assigned to. Any complaints or concerns over the Captain's decisions should be addressed after their orders have been carried out, and after the situation that prompted those orders has been resolved.

 

They are the ultimate operational authority on board, meaning unless external authorities are brought in, they are the ultimate on board. He is not a crew member like a Janitor, the Captain gets paid exorbitant amounts of money per day, and controls a nuclear weapon of mass destruction. Corporate law doesn't extend anywhere over whatever. Each station follows 'Corporate Regulations', and then each station has their own set of 'Station Directives' tailored to their facility. An example of policies the Captain can change: Fining first instead of brig sentences, no-smoking sign rules, who is and is not allowed to drink at the bar. The list goes on. The Captain has an incredible amount of sway over many policies on board. They simply cannot change the definitions on the corporate regulations wiki page.


3. Getting a Captain fired as IAA is next to impossible unless they murdered someone. Sorry, this is the truth. I used to main IAA, and I still play it (one of two players that play it often). Let me tell you a story, a Captain suspended someone because the person refused to take off a luchador mask. The person complained to my IAA, I filed a report alongside the Chief Engineer who did not approve of the action (the person who was suspended was an engineer). The demotion was highly questionable, the person didn't violate any serious regulation aside from joking around with a mask, and their head of staff was not consulted. Do you know what Central Command said? They overrode the demotion! For the ten minutes left of the round... Then, the player filed an IR against the Captain to see real action taken, I was listed as a witness and handling agent, do you know what happened then?


I was told off by the CCIA Supervisor for even considering reporting a Captain for something less than murder, and to never question the Captain - despite it being a CCIA's decision to override the Captain.


5. The link you shared is both Work in Progress and legacy, it is so old that it uses 'Nursing Intern' instead of 'Medical Resident', a change that happened ages ago. Not credible for your assistant gambit - Station Directives are up to date and override WIP wiki pages.

 

1) A note about cloning from the wiki: Another thing to note is that cloning should not be seen as a simple Escape-Death-Free™ card. Cloning is financially damaging and traumatizing. No one shouldn't fear death.

And an excerpt from your quote: The Captain is loyalty implanted, and is therefore trusted to act in the best interests of the company, crew, and station he or she is assigned to.

You think someone loyalty implanted to BENEFIT a company should be picking the option that hurts the company MORE for no added benefit to the company? And before you even say the word crew, yeah, the Captain also should benefit the crew... As a WHOLE. It's not an individual benefit, the Captain should focus on a broad look, making sure everyone benefits together, not individuals. For individuals, the department heads should focus on that.


2) You have waffled on your answer. You initially said the Captain's word was ULTIMATE, which meant he could order ANYTHING. Now you're saying he can order... Mmmmm MOST anything. Which again means you're wrong about your initial assertion that he could order anything. If you push the line AT ALL, that means there IS a line that the Captain can't cross. I stated a blanket, "There is a line that should never be crossed", you argued there is not one. Now you are SHOWING a line which should not be crossed.


3) "Getting a Captain fired as IAA is next to impossible"

That sentence right there, read it again then read my initial statement: IAA is an unusual exception, who technically doesn't "outrank" anyone, but has the power to dismiss anyone of their position (including Captains), if the situation needs it (VERY rare though).

I'm not sure why you're calling me wrong while demonstrating the VERY rare situations that it could apply in.

 

Here's a misconception for you.


Cyborgification was allowed back when becoming a cyborg was enslavement but you would retain some of your personality.


With the current lore you die and your brain is used as a component. This is worse than execution as you aren't only killed, but have your organs harvested for profits.


I brought this up a few times but no one has went and changed the wiki yet, lorewise borging people should be more controversial than execution.

I agree that lore wise it should be controversial, but the alternative is cloning a person then throwing them in a cell for the duration of the round. So let's look at it from an OOC standpoint. Would you rather stay in a cell for an hour, or RP a borg for an hour? Those are literally the two options if you died as a murderer.

 

Essentially

So not ultimate authority. I'm sorry but I was VERY clear that it's not something you'll see often, but rather that it's VERY rare. To say anything short of "The captain can do anything they want at any time for any reason", means you agree with me. If you can think of a SINGLE instance, where the Captain would be stripped of rank, then you agree with me. If you say, "That captain has ultimate authority, meaning he can do no wrong", THEN you disagree with me, but so far everyone who has disagreed with me that he doesn't have ultimate authority, has then turned around and said it's "mostly", or "essentially", or "almost always". But those qualifiers mean NOT ALWAYS.

Link to comment

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...