Dominia Lore - Player Feedback

Im not an athiest.

Gonna be writing up a long post over the next couple days, but I just want to say this:

The Moroz Holy Tribunal may be flawed, but it is not even half as bad as it is being presented to be. The main issue with Dominia lies outside the domain of it's religion; instead, with it's grandly accelerated story and galactic presence.

A good priest of the Moroz Holy Tribunal will not create difficulties for any crew who did not, intentionally during character creation, put themselves into a position where they would face this discrimination. The edicts disallow breaking the law.

I have hit a breakthrough speaking with sleepywolf, coalf, and whoever the guy above me is.

I will drop something here tonight, as a proposal for all involved.

Hey sorry im here again.

The problem I had with the major criticisms from Delta and Snake was the approach they were taking. There were some valuable insights to be had, but it was hard to get to because we are operating on two different wavelengths.

As I always do, I turned to Sleepywolf for help. She went at criticising Dominia and the Tribunal through the context of the Unathi, who Dominia take a lot of aesthetics from.

 

welllllll i have a kinda dislike to dominia. compared to a religion that works in our lore, Si'akh, he has you follow strict guidelines to better yourself in generosity and be free from sin. for Dominia, you ... act strict to stop .... nasty synths. i'm reading into dominia lore now to try and find out how it can be better

i know exactly what it is

it's the fact that

with Unathi, Sk'akh and Th'akh alike both still have their traditions

the Warriors Code is what makes them more spiritual, even though it's not part of their religion exactly it's their culture

the fact Dominians don't have a warriors code? it makes them more barbaric. they're not 'Righteous and courteous', and sure you can argue 'But the Maraziites are ruining their warriors code tradition!' - that's part of THEIR story in their history

the fact that the Iron Masks are less clingy to the Warriors Code makes them not barbaric, but ruthless - because they're SUPPOSEd to follow it. With Dominia, not everyone thinks 'Unathi'

Dominian Unathi bear only a vague resemblance to the Unathi we know traditionally

so, basically, without the culture to restrain the 'Religious Zealous' - it feels more barbaric, more ... unbelievable.

and the scope of Dominia is huge, compared to Moghes. on Moghes the religious war is between two known religions, but with Dominia they're enforcing 'No heretical religions AT ALL'

sleepy wolf - Yesterday at 8:13 PM

i definitely do like the hegemony more compared to dominia as well because of all the time invested in the hegemony and its notable people.

with dominia it's just 'Boleslaw has a long name but we don't know him' as well

we don't have Stories of him, he's just named.

no depth

 

So what Zundy and I can do is a three step solution to reform the empire.

1) Notable Dominians. I personally use Notable characters that serve two functions of being both historical figures of note, and archetypes you can base characters on. We can use Notable Dominians to explore the archetypal Dominians we would like to see on the station, and give them heros to emulate.

2) Give them a more formal cultural connection to their faith. A warrior's code. Even if it's brutal or whatever; give them a set of rules to follow if they want to live a well, fulfilled life.

3) Tweak the exact nature of the abuse and harrassment for edict breakers. No "kys" and instead a lot more gaslighting. "Come back. We all miss you. Your neighbors are sad you left. You are tearing your family apart. We hurt you because we love you. We all love you. Come back. You can be forgiven. Come back." Very creepy!!!

I basically want to respond to Snakes posts the most because I feel like there's valuable insight to be gained from them. I just need further clarification, and I'll argue against what I disagree with.

 

Jackboot, you prove my point perfectly. Your answer to 'message of the meaning of life' is to quote what happens to them AFTER their life has ended. If the only reason to exist on this Earth is to die then how do they gain heaven? By not breaking Edicts? Well theres only a handful of them so thats not too hard, we once again play into the realms of utterly lazy writing and unsatisfying religion for a group of people whos central theme is religion.

[...]

You once again quote death as a reason for life, if heaven is literally the only reason to exist then why haven't all the faithful edict followers not killed themselves? Why does Boleslaw sit on his throne? What meaning does the material have if the only thing to do is die and go to heaven? This is, I say again, written by people who have no concept of God. It really stands out.

Killing oneself removes your ability to help convert the galaxy to God. Your neighbours haven't done it. Your friends haven't done it. There's probably an Edict out there somewhere preventing it. Serving God in the expansion of his domain is your calling in life. How can you fufill the Edicts if you die?

There's not only a "handful of edicts", but at least 100. Boleslaw sits on the throne because he was promoted to his position by the original Unathi pirates. Boleslaw was promoted to the status of emperor by S'kraskin Seryo.

While I agree that it should be a little clearer, it's not like it's immersion-breaking or unbelievable in the slightest.

Yes. The religion was used as a rallying call for the oppressed. That is how it gained power - it was the tool of liberation for Dominia.

 

And it has done its job, why is it the ruling class now?

Because religions don't just fade out of existence the moment that conflict dies down. Jackboot says that it was used as a tool of liberation, and I suppose Word of God and all that, but I personally view it as being just a further concentration of power. Some of my characters agree, some disagree. The religion was manipulated in order to fit the agenda of Boleslaw from Mo'Roz.

 

???? ok? I dont understand this one. All faiths more or less say "do this and you'll go to heaven".

Seriously mate? If you don't understand basic premises of different faiths then why do you write for or defend a theocratic faction.

You're not clear about what you mean here.

 

Thats all lore hogwash mate, Unathi are not morally obligated to go around and convince their fellow man of suicide because they don't follow the rules, in fact its so mandatory for Dominians to do this if they don't do it they won't go to heaven, which is apparently all they exist for. We're talking about direct impacts on the station and characters. Very religious Unathi exist yes but they get around it by claiming to not have a monopoly on truth.

You can't be told to return to Dominia unless you WILLINGLY create a character as an edict breaker. Even then, it isn't going back to "kill yourself", at least not so far as Dominians are concerned. It's an offer of mercy, the last chance to face the courts for your crimes and be rightfully punished.

I don't know what you mean by "claiming to not have a monopoly on truth".

 

Anytime you try and explore these aspects of the character it all falls up short with, "well, I'm not a priest I can't tell you why we think that." and "Pfft, im a nobleman, I dont have to explain anything to you." Or if they are the local Chaplain, "Well I doubt your religion could explain it better."

Ask Christian characters why they believe what they believe and they'll likely say similar things. "That's how things are, it's my religion." is not an uncommon reason IRL. For Priests, if this is the case it's more a matter of the character being confrontational or the player not being knowledgeable enough on the lore to justify it. I know I've spoken with you before, and I gave coherent reasons for my belief. It can be and is done.

 

we run into the issue of them all disagreeing with each other as I have seen.

I would like to know what you've seen people so constantly disagree on, so that it can be clarified, and we can get an idea of where player confusion comes from.

I play mine often intentionally skirting the edges of the belief while trying not to show it. That's no mistake. That's not an error in the lore. That's part of the character.

Disagreements in faith can be interesting, so long as they're not major. If there are major conflicts, they need to be settled.

Basically, it comes down to lack of clarification. Not down to poor writing. Save that for their population booms, their intense genetic prowess, and their incredibly concentrated history.

Killing oneself removes your ability to help convert the galaxy to God. Your neighbours haven't done it. Your friends haven't done it. There's probably an Edict out there somewhere preventing it. Serving God in the expansion of his domain is your calling in life. How can you fufill the Edicts if you die?

False, it is neither in doctrine or Edicts that Dominian laity must preach their faith and convert others, I challenged Dominian chaplains to convert me and they refer to their Edicts that one day all the galaxy will be under the faith so they don't need to. The pre-destination aspect of these Edicts entirely undermines this point and I've even seen it in play with Chaplains such as Cael Volvalaad so not only is this a case of lazy writing but it has directly impacted the game. I wish I saved the logs but it was entirely along the lines of 'I know why I follow my religion, I tell you that but faith is faith and I cant convince you otherwise' which is the saddest excuse for any faith that claims a monopoly on truth.

 

There's not only a "handful of edicts", but at least 100. Boleslaw sits on the throne because he was promoted to his position by the original Unathi pirates. Boleslaw was promoted to the status of emperor by S'kraskin Seryo.

At least 100 Edicts? What are they? Do not confuse Doctrine for Edicts, how it is written says they are entirely different. As you said in your post later, clarification is needed and the last thing you can be vague about is Dogma that could end up getting you killed.

 

Because religions don't just fade out of existence the moment that conflict dies down. Jackboot says that it was used as a tool of liberation, and I suppose Word of God and all that, but I personally view it as being just a further concentration of power. Some of my characters agree, some disagree. The religion was manipulated in order to fit the agenda of Boleslaw from Mo'Roz.

Correct, so if this is true and it got manipulated why do the peasants put up with it when it actively kills them.

 

You can't be told to return to Dominia unless you WILLINGLY create a character as an edict breaker. Even then, it isn't going back to "kill yourself", at least not so far as Dominians are concerned. It's an offer of mercy, the last chance to face the courts for your crimes and be rightfully punished.

In the lore it directly says Edict breakers either commit ritual suicide or are executed by firing squad. The Dominians know for a fact that death is a possibility, if not, why do they bother to follow it? The religion once more offers no solution to any problem of any metaphysical quality, we are talking about impacts to the game here and it is so surreal and jarring when you run into it.

 

You're not clear about what you mean here.

I am saying that that is not at all what all religions do, not even the major ones.

Ask Christian characters why they believe what they believe and they'll likely say similar things. "That's how things are, it's my religion." is not an uncommon reason IRL. For Priests, if this is the case it's more a matter of the character being confrontational or the player not being knowledgeable enough on the lore to justify it. I know I've spoken with you before, and I gave coherent reasons for my belief. It can be and is done.

Correct, but those Christian characters find themselves excommunicated and are spiritually lazy, now imagine this in a character where if they are spiritually lazy they could be arrested and killed. See why simply having dominia as a faux pseudo faith doesn't really work out?

 

I would like to know what you've seen people so constantly disagree on, so that it can be clarified, and we can get an idea of where player confusion comes from.

I play mine often intentionally skirting the edges of the belief while trying not to show it. That's no mistake. That's not an error in the lore. That's part of the character.

Disagreements in faith can be interesting, so long as they're not major. If there are major conflicts, they need to be settled.

I wish i saved the logs of all my interactions but I have had on one end people bragging about the stoning of Edict Breakers and on the other have Chaplains talk about how the faith is entirely personal and it can't be forced. There is a distinct difference between disobeying a doctrine and teaching something that appears to be entirely contrary to the nature of it.

 

Basically, it comes down to lack of clarification. Not down to poor writing. Save that for their population booms, their intense genetic prowess, and their incredibly concentrated history.

One begets the other.

 

I don't know what you mean by "claiming to not have a monopoly on truth".

When a religion claims that all the galaxy must follow it, it is divinely inspired and it kills people who break its rules, it claims to have a monopoly on truth. The Roman Catholic Church also has this claim as does Islam.

I may be a little bit late to respond, but I am responding!

Making it so that heretics / edict breakers aren't executed is probably the best way to go about making this lore more believable and less joked about other than a full re-write of base doctrine and beliefs (which would be a colossal problem for roleplay) or canonically barring all employment / glassing the planets / removing the tribunal, which I don't want even as a vocal detester of the religion because people enjoy playing believable characters from Dominia. The main reason I've witnessed the Tribunal be scrutinized is due to the whole murderous aspect, which non-murderers find icky in the kindest of words.

There's no such thing as a perfect in-lore religion that's not based off reality, because you would need to write an entire holy book (with all the education and trouble that entails) and history (see above) which is just completely impractical. As such, removing murder as a base belief is the best way to get people off the religion's back ICly and make people feel less confused by its existence OOC. Half of the largest IC debates I've seen were started with somebody bragging about their stoning k/d ratio (The other half being people insulting Dominia for fun).

TL;DR, Removing execution as a core belief is an excellent idea both to make the religion more believable and to minimize the scrutiny people give it that no in-fiction religion could survive, sans one made in a joint effort between Tolkein and Karl Barth.

I may be a little bit late to respond, but I am responding!

Making it so that heretics / edict breakers aren't executed is probably the best way to go about making this lore more believable and less joked about other than a full re-write of base doctrine and beliefs (which would be a colossal problem for roleplay) or canonically barring all employment / glassing the planets / removing the tribunal, which I don't want even as a vocal detester of the religion because people enjoy playing believable characters from Dominia. The main reason I've witnessed the Tribunal be scrutinized is due to the whole murderous aspect, which non-murderers find icky in the kindest of words.

There's no such thing as a perfect in-lore religion that's not based off reality, because you would need to write an entire holy book (with all the education and trouble that entails) and history (see above) which is just completely impractical. As such, removing murder as a base belief is the best way to get people off the religion's back ICly and make people feel less confused by its existence OOC. Half of the largest IC debates I've seen were started with somebody bragging about their stoning k/d ratio (The other half being people insulting Dominia for fun).

TL;DR, Removing execution as a core belief is an excellent idea both to make the religion more believable and to minimize the scrutiny people give it that no in-fiction religion could survive, sans one made in a joint effort between Tolkein and Karl Barth.

In all honesty, that would help a little, but the religious lore is still spotty at best and poorly written. The fact that people had this 'mere misunderstanding', despite your insistence that the fact that some people do get the point justifies it somehow, is indicative that it needs to be written more clearly, but also, the tribunals existence as an authority at all is not really detailed. The impracticality to write a holy book about a fictional religion doesn't really justify a spotty religion, nobody is asking for a holy book, they just want the central theme of an entire faction and set of characters to be something slightly more than "we're religious because, uh, religious", because inevitably without something more than that literally any chaplain of that religion will struggle to play a believeable chaplain. Even if other factions share some of the lack of depth, 1) that doesn't justify lack of depth thats just shifting blame and 2) they are doing something right as they haven't produced as much controversy, I attribute it to the fact that most of them are pagan faiths that don't *need* the justification because they aren't widespread anyways. I agree that a more cultural basis for the religion would help, but it won't do much to reinforce its influence on Dominian characters' day to day lives if the only listed motivation for its cultural inclusion is "its tradition". The themes are also clashing, as there has been word saying that they're not a theocracy, the religion is just a tool used to control the masses, but that doesn't add up. If your religion is where your authority over common people originates from, then they are likely to be able to strip you of authority (as with popes naming kings and excommunicating them), but if the ruler has so much power that this doesn't matter, why does he even need the religion? as a pragmatic ruler, why does he not do what the soviets did and strip it entirely? I get the traditionalism and that there is still potentially a place for the religion within an authoritarian regime, but as was mentioned before, backing these laws with death makes them only as effective as secular laws.

TL;DR, writing the lore more clearly is entirely necessary, nobody is asking for a holy book, but the religion should be detailed and strongly written enough that chaplains have something other than "obey me or else is my religion" and "when u die u go to heaven" to work with (dont care if "other factions" are just as bad, those are pagans its okay), and the themes of "authoritarian fascist state" and "authoritarian theocratic state" should be combed through for inconsistancies