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Roleplaying with Antags Discussion


Biolock

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This is mostly going to come down to personal preference, but what do you gents think is appropriate when it comes to antags?


Let me paint a picture for you.


>You're the captain

>You go to your office

>When you enter the office, you see a man in a medical jumpsuit and gasmask hacking your bathroom door.

>He stops when he sees you.


Now here's another picture.

>You're the captain

>You go to your office

>When you enter your office you see a man in wizard robes opening your bathroom door.

>He stops when he sees you.



Did those pictures feel different to you? Because they did to me. On one instance my first reaction is to call security/ pull my gun/ run out of the office, but on the second picture I'm more inclined to stop and discuss with the wizard. This leads to, what I find to be, an incredibly annoying meta where security will constantly provide leeway to major antagonists (see ninja, wizard, etc) until they do something so unforgivable that the security team has no choice but to act. What do you gents think is appropriate? In my opinion, everyone should be treated equally in the eyes of the law, people not wanting to be physical with the wizard for fear of pissing him off and making him go full antag, just doesn't sit right with me. I find that people hide behind the paper-thin excuse of trying not to 'valid hunt' when not only has the antag entered the station illegally, but has also already committed additional crimes during his/her stay, becomes even more non-substantiating when they make minimal attempt to roleplay the situation realistically. All in all, oftentimes the roleplay between security and major antagonists seems to not be organic, and rather a checklist for players to follow in order to ensure that the antagonist doesn't ahelp because "his" round is being ruined.

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I would treat them both the same. That is to say, with leniency. Both of them have done something interesting, and we shouldn't just punish that. If you kill the wizard or apprehend him right there, well done! Kudos! You got the antag! Whoopee! Now it's extended. If you capture the gasmask man, well done! You got a filthy criminal! Now, he gets to sit in the brig bored for a little while, while you enjoy extended.


Up to a certain point, it's either late in the round, the antag is absolutely shit, or the antag has been evading your capture very robustly, we should absolutely be trying to find every excuse we can to be nice to them, because this is a game. Without the antags, it's a very boring game.


The last paragraph works just as well if we replace antags with random weirdo who is just breaking the law but isn't an antag. He did something interesting. Let him have a chance. As an example of this, one time, I was captain. There was some greytide idiot in processing, and he kept stripping himself. While we were processing, he was saying all the applicable corporate regulations, and getting himself a shorter sentence. I was amused, and I had an excuse to give him a chance, so I offered him a lawyer position. Of course, he just stripped himself down again, and he got permabrig. That was the point when I thought the guy was just absolute shit, and then held no quarter.


The same can be done with wizards. Woah, don't kill him! We need to learn how he uses magic.

And ninja's. Woah, don't kill him, I want that suit in pristine condition!

And so on. We should be giving the people who can make our rounds interesting a chance... up to a certain point.


We must also remember, that while this is a role-playing server, there is also fun to be had in just robustness and competition. Once this certain point has been reached, it is absolutely okay to draw guns and shoot as soon as you see the other team. That is still roleplaying.

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So I don't necessarily disagree with you, the problem I have is that it runs full circle. The antagonists now EXPECT security to be lenient with them, leading to them doing stupid things like turning themselves in or doing other incredibly obvious things. I understand that we're all here to have fun, but there's much fun to be had in trying to outplay someone. A prime example of this is an AI that hacks every APC on station and makes little legitimate attempt to mask their malfunctioning. A malf AI, according to our lore, is something that is "impossible", so the AI will do anything it wants, knowing that anyone who notices the blatant acts can't act out or else they're meta gaming and valid hunting the AI. A HUGE draw factor about this game is in the subtly. What is the fun if everyone is being incredibly obvious because they know they're safe? This is basically the only server where a space ninja can, in relative safety, jump to the middle of the brig to talk to the HoS. Does it lead to more talking? Yes. Does it lead to more ROLEPLAY? I'd argue no. It just reeks of FailRP. Remember that term you use to hear back in Gmod when you got in trouble for creating a hobo-hideout above ground in darkRP? Well that term translates over to us as well. It's fail RP for a ninja to jump to security in front of all the guards, but we allow it, because anything that's not ending someone's round is considered 'good roleplay'.

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I really disagree with you on antags expecting security to be lenient. It is quite the opposite. Antags expect security to fuck them over immediately, and security expects antags to fuck them over immediately. A prime example happened today. I rolled wizard twice (!!! praise !!!) , and the first time, there was very little sec, so I picked shit spells and focused on a melee playstyle. I was running around, RPing, damaging the station a little bit... and boom. Chloral hypospray.


Then, there was the round were security actually was lenient, that you saw.


I've got in trouble for shooting officers that got too close because I was paranoid. Security often fucks antags over, then says "well I thought they were about to kill me". Without both sides actually becoming more lenient to each other most of the time, rather than it being just a 50/50 chance that you will get fucked over for trying to RP, or fucked over 5 minutes in for a mechanical mistake, nothing can really be done about the paranoia, because it is justified. You really don't know if captain is going to execute you after he telebatons you, or will fearRP and run away.

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My Story: Roleplaying with antags and roleplaying with Security as antags has already become difficult for me. You really don't know who will start the issue or to even escalate it. I do remember a particular round with my security department including [mention]Mcspizzy[/mention] and myself as Head of Security were sent to rescue Captain Eleanor Shen ([mention]Azande[/mention]) who has been taken prisoner by Nuke Ops. I hop into teleporter and call my security over. I initiated the RP discussion with "Why hello there!" to not only meet my but as well security's fate of beheaded by Security and Captain's death. Azande had to tell me to man the fuck up and attack them with a minimal amount of roleplay in deadchat, none of the Security Department were salty because we all knew that this may have happened as we already knew our death is inevitable.


My opinion: To tell people to roleplay with antags/security and be lenient with each other is easier said than done. How I see the first contact between antag and security is basically The Cold War's Arms Race to me and see who will be the first to attack. The ugly truth is no one wants to die and "lose" against either security or antags. All the players are thinking, you must fight just to stay alive.

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Not everybody really hates dying. I, and I know a few others who think the same, will, if the time is right, sacrifice themselves to the antagonists to help them drive a story. Some people will let themselves be taken hostage, to reward antagonists who try to do something interesting. I had a really good scenario with [mention]The Stryker[/mention], where, yeah, I could have just ran into my backroom and survived, but I had a good time as hostage, and when he executed me, I wasn't mad. We just need to get out of the competitive and "who is gonna shoot first" mindset. Good times will follow.

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I come from med-RP Paradise, spent 2+ years there. Everyone can (and will) have full knowledge of antags. Wizards are Enemies of the Corp, always, even when they are not. Get your valids. So when I first came to Aurora, and saw an arcane tome, I casually asked "Is there a cult?" The response was "What's that?" and it started what seemed like an Abbott and Costello routine where I talked about common cult things and they had no idea what I was talking about (then I reread the wiki and realized antag info isn't common knowledge here). And boy, was it refreshing! Where I am going with this is the following: when I am an antag, any treatment short of a greytide pile-on feels like freedom.


I really feel for wizards and ninjas as they can exist as the lone antags of the round. When I rolled ninja early on in my Aurora tenure, I felt super-responsible to provide a decent foil to security and a solid RP experience. I likely failed on both counts, but I was grateful that security gave me a wide berth and didn't go nuts over some non-violent trespassing (they showed up, but we talked it out). If they kill me, or give me a HuT, it essentially becomes extended for everyone. Nobody likes realizing it was an antag round for the first time from the endround report because the antag(s) got robusted by security 20 minutes in.


My personal stance is that antags should (continue to) get a wide berth on this server, and I'm okay with that. I'm not saying look away from witnessed criminal activity -any antag should know that once they start committing major crimes in broad daylight, all bets are off- but to take any suspicion with a grain of salt and ask yourself if that suspicion is objectively legit or a product of metaknowledge. IMO, people on Aurora are already pretty good at doing this.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I give them the same treatment, I call security, have them brigged for infiltration, and then they are responsible for dealing with the consequences for their actions. It's not a HuT so they'll be able to get out at some point. I don't like any kind of antag-hugging of leniency attitude. Better antagonists will only come by people getting used to not being hand-held by who they're literally trying to kill. Cover your tracks, sneak into places properly. Etc.

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You cannot expect to give two different cases equivalent treatment for a similar situation because no two situations are ever really the same and it may not even be appropriate to respond the same for every given case. It leads to boring gameplay, after all.


A person would be more inclined to holler for security for an individual hacking into your workplace with tools, donning a full-face gas mask that covers his or her face entirely, rather than doing for the same for someone clad in wizard robes who simply looks silly walking out of your personal bathroom having just used it.


There's a different, and much more obvious, implication for the former case than the latter.

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I come from med-RP Paradise, spent 2+ years there. Everyone can (and will) have full knowledge of antags. Wizards are Enemies of the Corp, always, even when they are not. Get your valids.

 

I felt a wash of relief reading this, thank you Alex.

I've not been on Aurora long, but in my limited time I have played Antag roles I knew absolutely nothing about.

I don't play Antag very often because to my previous knowledge of it on other servers. It means Either move fast and get the job done before anyone knows what happened, or be more Robust than everyone else combined. But I wanted to broaden my horizons and try things out.


My first time ever antagging was as a Merc. I read about this briefly on the wiki when I saw what I was and the first thing I noticed that was different (to other stations) was I had no target, I was just told I was a merc. Then the rest of my team started talking about targets, and we eventually settled on one.


Long story short we fucked up. But the entire time we were setting up I felt involved in it, we chose the target, we chose how to approach, and we chose how to go down. Two of us got captured and the other two tried to start negotiating for a release. I made up a huge story on the fly and for a while I thought we could actually get away with this. Save face in the eyes of our 'employer' and whatnot.


Didn't work out that well. And I should have seen it coming, but no sooner than the hostage transfer was over we got robusted but good. I felt cheated that it all devolved into that in the end, but the shuttle had already been called and it was end game so I didn't let it stick to me. If nothing else it just validated my own reservations of playing high action roles.


The point I want to make on all this is that as a first time Antag in a mode I knew nothing about it was fun being paired up with people that seemed like vets in the field, and the fluid freedom of how to play as Antag really sets this apart from other versions I've seen, Like Alex's blurb I put above.


Should antags be Robust on Sight? I don't think anyone in the thread or the game is going to make that call until maybe after an hour in, or if the antag themselves get turnt right out the gate. It's fun seeing the reactions from everyone, including the antag themselves as they try to play the system.

Sorry if this doesn't really progress the topic at hand, but I thought a pair of fresh eyes to the station could help clarify just how differently things are on here, and how (in my opinion) it's better that way.

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