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It's The Economy, Stupid


Guest Marlon Phoenix

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Guest Marlon Phoenix

I've been pushing this since old-code and really want to keep the pressure up. I understand the entire project is probably hugely complex so I'd love to see the implementation staggered until we reach the end goal.

 

Update 1) Consistency Consistency, Regularity

  • Make accounts persistent. Right now we get a random amount of money at round-start with no relevance to anything. Code it up so that when your character first spawns in they get a set amount of credits in their account depending on the job. I could sit down with Sierra and figure out how much dosh a job would get. The second part of this part of the project would be to make accounts persistent; you spawn in with 2,000 credits, and you have that 2,000 credits every round. The final part of this would be to inject a lump sum of credits in a character's account every new time they spawn in, so that a captain would get 500 credits each time they spawn in. Theoretically, this rewards career players, as well as making money in the round as well as spending it.



    "B-But Jackbook-kun," you whisper, your kawaii eyes watering up as you utter your protest, "w-what about antagonist actions? If you steal 500,000 credits and put that in your account, wouldn't you keep it?"



    I am glad you asked, you otaku scum. Antag relationships with persistent memeconomy is a valid drawback to this project. The most simple solution that's "good enough" would be to simply have a maximum limit on how many credits your character can keep persistent per round. So you can make 7,000 a round, and any more than that just... Never happened! (That is 1,900 credits higher than the most credits you spend in your snowflake backstory in a later part of this suggestion)



    This would also be the same for department accounts, but their limit would be 3,000. Given the value of things at the moment, I only ever see accounts make 100 - 200 credits at maximum, so this is very generous.

 

Update II) Bourgeoisie It Up

 

  • Add Credit Terminals to the kitchen, the bar, the security desk, the medical front desk, the HoP office, cargo, and RnD. These terminals would be linked to their respective department accounts, like a pre-set up EFTPOS. The employee at the terminal would simply enter the amount of the transaction, and the customer would swipe their ID and it would beep if it was successful and transfer the money. Simplicity is extremely important here, this system has to be ridiculously user friendly or no one will use it. The prices of all goods will probably just be negotiated in-rounds for awhile to both save the effort and see if the playerbase can manage its own economy with its supply/demand etc etc. This is basically just reskinning EFTPOS.

 

Update three) I'm A Janitor But I'm A Billionaire

 

  • Add a menu to customer character creation that lets players set up their 'lifestyle', which would deduct funds from their account everytime they spawn in. This simulates spending money out of the round, and serves to make finances dynamic. If you live beyond your means, you might end up with 0 credits in your account! That would suck ass, so you'll have to downgrade...
  • Where does your character live?
  •  
  • A luxurious private mansion. - 3,000 credits
  •  
  • An expensive suite. - 2,000 credits
  •  
  • A decent house. - 1,000 credits
  •  
  • A low-end house. - 800 credits
  •  
  • A low-end apartment. - 400 credits
  •  
  • Homeless. - 20 credits"
  • What does your character drive?
  •  
  • A luxurious sports car. - 1,000 credits
  •  
  • A decent retail car. - 800 credits
  •  
  • A used car. - 400 credits
  •  
  • Public transit. - 100 credits
  • How do you try to live?
  •  
  • In the lap of luxury. - 1,000 credits.
  •  
  • Very comforably. - 900 credits
  •  
  • Comfortably - 800 credits
  •  
  • Affordable - 700 credits
  •  
  • Economical - 600 credits
  •  
  • Rock-bottom - 200 credits
  • Does your character pay taxes?
  •  
  • Yes - 100 credits
  •  
  • No - 0 credits
  • (A captain would spawn in with 7,000 credits if it's their first time playing that character, and would earn 5,300 a shift. Theoretically if they spend nor make any other money in any form they would have a profit of 200 credits a round - being an NT captain is extremely lucrative.)

 

  • Which these options set, it deducts that amount of credits from you at shift-start. This system, simple as it is, allows us to dance around it to create engaging situations and moments. If you show up with 0 credits and you're not an antag, you can spend the shift fearing going home because you know you have to downgrade from your personal castle to a cheap apartment in the catbeast slums, or that you have to sell your car just to scrap by, or that you live in all these super fancy houses but you live at rock-bottom because you can't afford anything else. And if you're an antag... You gunna thug it till you get ur $$$$$$



    I concede that this would really cut into the whole "I'm a janitor but I have billions of credits" characters (sorry Godswoods) but I'm going to argue that the benefits outweigh this drawback, especially when the most common question I have is "why are you working here if you're richer than most countries?"

 

Update IV) THE FINAL SOLUTION

  • This is the open ended part that is determined by how the updates before this one go, where we expand on what happens about. This is where we build on the foundation, we should not implement anything here before we have the above in the code and implemented. Ideally, I'd love to see the cargo items cost credits instead of points, and you toggle what department is paying for it. Look at charging for more things - make "DO NOT CLONE" something added to medical records if you don't have NT insurance which would cost 200 credits every time you spawn in. This is where we 'expand on' this economy, while the above updates would set the ground work.

 

I strongly feel that these updates will provide Aurora with an engaging new dynamic to its HRP nature, and give the Aurora server itself a mechanical legacy for the greater SS13. Being the first server to have a functional economy like this would do great for us, and let other servers begin implementing similar things. We could make SS13 history here people!!!! Don't you want to be mentioned on reddit????

Edited by Gem
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Guest Marlon Phoenix

btw I did the maths

  • First-level Expenses: 5,100 (the elite)

    (private mansion, sports car, lap of luxury, taxes)
  • Second-level Expenses: 3,800 (upper class)

    (suite, retail, v comfortable, tax)
  • Third-level expenses: 2,300 (upper middle class)

    (decent home, used car, comfortable, tax)
  • Fourth level expenses: 2,000 (middle class)

    (Low end home, used car, comfortable, tax)
  • Fifth level expenses: 1,200 (lower class)

    (Low apartment, transit, economical, tax)
  • Sixth level expenses: 800 (above poverty)

    (Low apartment, transit, rock bottom, tax)
  • Seventh level expenses: 420 (poverty line)

    (homeless, transit, rock bottom, tax)

 

You'd have to make at least that much per round to afford to remain in that level, not counting whatever income the various jobs would give you. So as you can see, even something as simple as persistent paychecks and living expenses already create something dynamic and a smidge complicated.


Making all the expenses first really made the rest of this easier to conceptualize. Now we know that even assistants and janitors should earn at least a baseline 420. (unintentional number I swear)

Edited by Marlon Phoenix
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Guest Marlon Phoenix
What would the repercussions be for not paying taxes? Is there an incentive to prevent people from just hitting "no taxes?"

 

In the very beginning, no, not until we reach update goal 4. What branches out from that would be determined by how common it actually is. At the very base level, we'd be able to play with it on the face and have lore fluff build around it. It would also be a good experiment in how responsive the playerbase is proactively, of their own initiative - if everyone stops paying taxes, and there's a news article about NT workers evading taxes followed by CCIA audits, would they start paying taxes?


If we go that far, would we be able to have these audits lead to people being fined in proportion? Would not paying taxes be a risk/benefit juggle where you save some dosh but risk losing more if you're caught in an eventual audit, or will you escape the law for the character's entire career?


With simple foundations we can grow to do dynamic and open ended things.

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Guest Complete Garbage

I feel like this could grow into yet another of the complex systems that make this game great, but I also feel some people will really hate it when it starts out. I love the idea, and would be willing to support it the whole way, but other major changes (i.e. newcode) have been met with opposition, especially in the early stages, when it's most likely to be crippled.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix
+1

Question:

Should the Head of Personnel/Captain be able to give a raise or cut budgets or accounts?

 

The HoP should be dedicated to making money for the station, but because money is useless in its current state this is barely enforced. In the future, ideally, all heads of staff try to make a profit.

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I like the ideas. Although i'm questioning why put a scanner at medical. Healthcare should be covered by insurance and be provided free to employees. A scanner might make sense if people want to purchase certain medical items, but i don't want them paying for healthcare.

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Guest Complete Garbage
I like the ideas. Although i'm questioning why put a scanner at medical. Healthcare should be covered by insurance and be provided free to employees. A scanner might make sense if people want to purchase certain medical items, but i don't want them paying for healthcare.

I think it would be used by chemistry, more than anyone else.

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I think it would be used by chemistry, more than anyone else.

I could see this working, if it came with less questions.


Chemistry, and the game in general, would be a lot more interesting if antags could buy space lube, sedatives, poisons, acids, and assorted elements without being looked at funny and pinging security. Just pay the costs and get what you want. There's a who lot of chemicals and medicines that have little or no beneficial application, and are thus just never made except by griefers.


If things stayed as restricted as they are now, though, paying for chems would just add an extra layer of pointless work to the already rarely-used process of prescriptions

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I honestly love this suggestion, another great feature proposed by our local Jackboot. I felt for a while that money was literally a useless feature that no one uses nor cares for and it really should be used more. So, I'm definitely in favor of this being implemented, seeing as it would improve the use of money in the game and not make it where it's just a cosmetic thing that takes up space.

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I really like the idea of the economy becoming purposeful. Requiring budgeting for departments and science actually turning a profit from the massive materials they absorb would be a nice added change.

As for medical, generally if you are in dire need of medical service, you will receive care before billing is even thought of. During character setup the insurance could be a section on the medical profile, allowing medical to bill an insurance account. If not the crew member is required to pay for the care received. This can actually add a lot of care to not get yourself killed or do something stupid. Yea it is just a stupid mechanical arm, but it costs ya 350 to repair it every time you try to use it for something stupid.


I look forward to seeing these kind of changes implemented.

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Guest Marlon Phoenix
I really like the idea of the economy becoming purposeful. Requiring budgeting for departments and science actually turning a profit from the massive materials they absorb would be a nice added change.

As for medical, generally if you are in dire need of medical service, you will receive care before billing is even thought of. During character setup the insurance could be a section on the medical profile, allowing medical to bill an insurance account. If not the crew member is required to pay for the care received. This can actually add a lot of care to not get yourself killed or do something stupid. Yea it is just a stupid mechanical arm, but it costs ya 350 to repair it every time you try to use it for something stupid.


I look forward to seeing these kind of changes implemented.

 

I've been trying to avoid discussing possible late-game suggestions for this because I really want the foundation feature of the economy to be established before we have grand ideas about how to expand it. And doing that is awkward because we have just the foundation which may skew in a new direction in the late stages.


But yes I thought it would be extremely fun to have 'insurance' be something you toggled, and when it was enabled, you gained free medical care. Advanced scanners and scanners and cryo tubes and the cloner would automatically deduct funds from your on-station account if you did not. But we don't want to refuse medical care to people for being too poor, that'd be shitty, so the consequences for not being able to afford it are up in the air and something we can really argue over once the economy itself is implemented.

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But yes I thought it would be extremely fun to have 'insurance' be something you toggled, and when it was enabled, you gained free medical care. Advanced scanners and scanners and cryo tubes and the cloner would automatically deduct funds from your on-station account if you did not. But we don't want to refuse medical care to people for being too poor, that'd be shitty, so the consequences for not being able to afford it are up in the air and something we can really argue over once the economy itself is implemented.

 

I know it's up in the air, but something you could do for it is dock end of round pay so that someone defaults on the payment instead of getting rejected outright. This also allows for people to refuse non-essential medical operations. The gardener loses a leg in an explosion? "Well I don't really need that 350 Thaller Biotech Brand leg.. I'll take a wheelchair since I can still do my job with it just fine" They aren't permanently left without a leg, because they can get a crappy unbranded one from that clinic near their busted up apartment with some nifty flavor text about it being rusted or creaking when it moves.

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I know it's up in the air, but something you could do for it is dock end of round pay so that someone defaults on the payment instead of getting rejected outright. This also allows for people to refuse non-essential medical operations.

 

I hate this idea.


I already have the entire unathi race, half of security, most engineers, the xenobiologists, miners, and a whole ton of other people refusing minor treatment.

Sometimes they die as a result of it because they had blood poisoning, or their tiny untreated cuts got infected and gave them sepsis, or because they walked into a dangerous situation with less than peak health, and didn't have as much time as they thought they would.


Being treated in medical takes people out of what they wanted to do for a while, for the sake of their health. Getting them to come in is a chore. More reasons to refuse treatment are the last thing we need imo. I'm very staunchly against making crewmembers directly pay for medical treatment in any form


Besides, that's not at all how real hospitals make money. You don't allow patients to refuse minor things. You run as many unnecessary tests, procedures and treatments as you possibly can, you treat them for every tiny minor ailment, and prescribe mountains of pills. and you bill it all to their insurance company with a huge profit margin on everything you do.

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I hate this idea.


I already have the entire unathi race, half of security, most engineers, the xenobiologists, miners, and a whole ton of other people refusing minor treatment.

Sometimes they die as a result of it because they had blood poisoning, or their tiny untreated cuts got infected and gave them sepsis, or because they walked into a dangerous situation with less than peak health, and didn't have as much time as they thought they would.


Being treated in medical takes people out of what they wanted to do for a while, for the sake of their health. Getting them to come in is a chore. More reasons to refuse treatment are the last thing we need imo. I'm very staunchly against making crewmembers directly pay for medical treatment in any form


Besides, that's not at all how real hospitals make money. You don't allow patients to refuse minor things. You run as many unnecessary tests, procedures and treatments as you possibly can, you treat them for every tiny minor ailment, and prescribe mountains of pills. and you bill it all to their insurance company with a huge profit margin on everything you do.

 

People should still be able to refuse medical treatment\choose to pay out of their own pocket to avoid dem premiums.

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People should still be able to refuse medical treatment\choose to pay out of their own pocket to avoid dem premiums.

Refusing treatment is fine in my opinion, except medical professional must be given the ability to force safe treatment if it is life threatening, or the patient is deemed mentally unstable.

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Refusing treatment is fine in my opinion, except medical professional must be given the ability to force safe treatment if it is life threatening, or the patient is deemed mentally unstable.

 

Forcing treatment is a whole legal nightmare that a corp like NT probably would not get its hands tied in especially with an economic system involved (The hospital forced me to get surgery so that I'd go into debt! - lawsuit). Mental instability is another iffy point because unless you witness everyone on the station die you don't have a reason to be full blown insane. The station belongs to a Corp who presumably doesn't hire people unless they are able to perform mentally and physically (mechanical organs/limbs to cope with physical weakness). Depression if roleplayed correctly is not something that counts as instability because there are many ways of attempting to treat it and cope with it.

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Depression is also really difficult to diagnose and there are varying degrees of it. You will not normally be denied a job because you have issues keeping happy. It's a natural human thing.

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Depression is also really difficult to diagnose and there are varying degrees of it. You will not normally be denied a job because you have issues keeping happy. It's a natural human thing.

 

I agree and I didn't really choose the most accurate wording. I meant to say that the degrees you would be hired for do not count as instability. If you've worked for NT for any amount of time with extreme depression to the point of going "Woe is me I want to die, no doctor do not safe my life I am too distraught to live" someone who bosses you around would have probably noticed. Consistent suicidal/harmful depression roleplay is one of two extremes that is not accurate and is harmful to people who actually have depression like myself.

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I´ll just post this screenshot here and leave the rest up to you.


Oh, and that's also the reason why I added the requirement that contracts are moderated before they are available in the first place.

 

Contracts%20Table%20Data.PNG

 

Edit: Seems like I am too stupid to figure out how attachments work.

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