[Accepted] Aboshehab/Sharp Human Deputy Lore Developer Application

Ckey/BYOND Username:Aboshehab

Position Being Applied For Human Deputy Lore developer

Past Experiences/Knowledge: I've made numerous lore applications and have assisted the lore team either by vetting, proof reading, advice or directly writing pieces for them. Namely involving Sol and Elyra.

Examples of Past Work:

Lore Applications:

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=9752 Elyran Armed Forces

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=8540 Karak Virul

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=8542 Skrell Frontier

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=7908 ASSN Anthem

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=7437 Busra Memorial

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=79&t=7120 Elyra Anthem

Articles:

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=4541&start=40#p78186

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=4541&start=40#p77446

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=2981&start=100#p80283

Stories:

https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=120&t=9421#p86877 A story centered around a character of mine, details certain aspects of Elyra and it's struggle against the Lii'dra.

I originally had a lot more than this, I've got a couple of unfinished drafts which is more me writing them from scratch because I lost my files on my previous computer

New: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=10114&start=10#p90829 A project Doc and I did in around 3 hours spread across a day.

Additional Comments: I've always felt that lore at times focuses too much on a "wow" factor which devolves into grim stuff, sometimes there needs to be more mundane or normal stuff, things that feels like lore building instead of personal world building. I'm not saying I don't want world shifting politics, I'm more saying there needs to be a balance between the two, to stimulate a living world. Our current world isn't just about wars, famine and crime. We have sports, drama, scandals, large economic projects. I'd like to provide more platforms for these things that the players and the characters can use to immerse themselves. As an example, I want to provide a science oriented thing which encourages people to actually do science instead of simple mechanics of dumping things into a destructive analyzer but compiling research papers.

Furthermore, I'd like more lore interactions with the crew without taking up a whole round into extended. The station can still have VIP's, objectives and other things that can be made up during these rounds. Arguably these are things I could do without being part of the lore team, but I've always been concerned with clashing too much.

I can hear Abo wanting to develop for Elyra from the other side of the ocean. He's consistently concerned for people's enjoyment, extremely active both as a member of staff and (importantly) as a player, and has shown plenty of interest in developing the fiction of the setting in reasonable and believable ways. I don't see why he shouldn't be seriously considered, now that admins are eligible for lore positions.

I'll be preparing some questions for you shortly (I.E in around 9 hours) so watch this space.

Part of me doesn't want this application to go through because Abo will then pour even more time into the server. I'm also biased since one of my characters is featured in one of his stories.

Memes aside, Abo is very dedicated to the server, and he would no doubt be a good asset to the lore team. He's capable of writing decent pieces of lore/stories quite quickly from what I've seen. I'm sure he'd be able to properly and consistently add to the human lore. Another valuable trait is the ability to quickly read through pieces and provide useful feedback on them, a trait which he has.

So yes, I'd seriously consider them for the position. (I also want Elyra to be more developed already damn it)

Some questions, please answer them as best as you can:

I'll be expecting regular weekly lore developments and weekly team meetings (likely voiced) via discord. Is this alright with you?

Let's say on your first day on the job I give you free reign to alter any human or corporate lore as you see fit. What would you focus on, change and why?

Let's say you there was an aspect of the lore which you really loved and Jackboot and I wished to remove it or alter it beyond a point that you would accept. After you give us your heartfelt plea we still proceed to remove or alter in a manner that appears unfair to you. How would you react to this and why?

You're working on an aspect of lore development when you unknowingly overstep and alter another species lore. The species lore dev confronts you on discord and begins to aggressively reprimand you beyond your idea of fairness and respect (they're being far too aggressive). Unfortunately I'm not online to offer support, what do you do and why?

I task you and another deputy with an area of lore development, during which you and the other deputy enter a heated debate. Your colleague decides to overrule you and in essence spark an edit war on the wiki and a minor flame war across public lore chat. Jackboot and I are unreachable for whatever reason. How do you deal with this and why?

Whilst a deputy a player you quite like and consider a friend beings to PM you with ideas for lore changes, some of which appear to favour his characters and player friends. What do you do and why?

A player begins to openly and aggressively mock a member of the lore team on public discord channels. They are not being constructive. What do you do and why?

I'm going to hit this on the nail before I get started. A lot of these questions make me feel I'm applying for moderator but I'll answer them as I would do regardless if I'm deputy lore developer, as a Head Administrator. Giving everyone the same set of questions doesn't really give the applicants justice, in fact I'd like more lore based questions.

I'll be expecting regular weekly lore developments and weekly team meetings (likely voiced) via discord. Is this alright with you?

Weekly voice meetings seems like a chore and a pain to coordinate, mod/admin staff don't even do ones on a monthly basis. We instead continuously discuss things, produce pings to gather attention to points and pin them, and brief people on anything that deserves attention. This includes updates on the current progress on certain complaints, appeals and issues we're currently resolving. So I'm not fond of a weekly scheduled meeting but I'll try my best to oblige you.

Though I feel you're more asking for a debrief on progress, completed works and etc, and that is something I already do for practically all departments of our staff and something I can most definitely do for you as well.

Let's say on your first day on the job I give you free reign to alter any human or corporate lore as you see fit. What would you focus on, change and why?

Figuratively, I'd like to gut a lot of more or less useless stuff, a prime example to me is currently the Sol Military page, which I feel is relevant to the current state of the lore, yet it is currently a blob of redundant and useless text. Ideally lore to me should have a primary stream lined page that covers everything of note in easy to digest format but it doesn't end there, want to know more? Well, here are all these links to more specific pages that covers things in a more in depth nature. "Everything" should never be in a single page. Other than that, I'd like to touch on things that actually affect the characters that work in terms of the setting. A living word in basic terms.

Realistically, I doubt I'll change much within the first day, I like acquiring feedback and going through multiple drafts of things before publishing especially since I do need to learn how the wiki works. Ideally I'd be scouting for pages that needs working, go back to a lot of suggests I have and work on it. I'm actively approached with questions as well, so providing an actual reference to these answers might be the most straight forward and easily accomplish-able thing I can do.

Let's say you there was an aspect of the lore which you really loved and Jackboot and I wished to remove it or alter it beyond a point that you would accept. After you give us your heartfelt plea we still proceed to remove or alter in a manner that appears unfair to you. How would you react to this and why?

I'm a human being, I'd dislike it, maybe even hate it. But I think my year long tenure resulting in being a Head Administrator has shown that I'm open to dialogue and understanding. I may not like every decision made, but I will respect it. I'd use every reasonable mean to showcase my opinion but I'd never overstep my bounds on anything or give you a hissy fit over it. The day I slip to this behavior is the day I resign from staff fully.

You're working on an aspect of lore development when you unknowingly overstep and alter another species lore. The species lore dev confronts you on discord and begins to aggressively reprimand you beyond your idea of fairness and respect (they're being far too aggressive). Unfortunately I'm not online to offer support, what do you do and why?

Try to calm the situation, if that does not work, I'll stop communication. The anger could be justified or not, is still anger and cannot always be calmed straight away. Hopefully maturity triumph and we get back to talking as mature people. I'd probably send a PM to the relevant people, which might be Jackboot, Garn and yourself when you're awake as I'm directly involved and it's a role of thumb of ours to avoid giving out administrative action when directly involved.

I task you and another deputy with an area of lore development, during which you and the other deputy enter a heated debate. Your colleague decides to overrule you and in essence spark an edit war on the wiki and a minor flame war across public lore chat. Jackboot and I are unreachable for whatever reason. How do you deal with this and why?

Well, first of all, assuming attempts at compromise fail, an edit war won't occur since I won't entertain it. The second this occurs I'd catalog information and evidence and forward it to the relevant people. I'll quote the previous answer.

It's a role of thumb of ours to avoid giving out administrative action when directly involved.

Whilst a deputy a player you quite like and consider a friend beings to PM you with ideas for lore changes, some of which appear to favour his characters and player friends. What do you do and why?

I'm generally an honest person, if I spot a conflict of interest I would most likely call it out. I'd ask them to justify it, it's very possible I'm wrong with my opinion and I'd like them to prove me wrong. Generally this sort of trend is frowned upon and to a certain extend, not something that is permissible. As deputy, not a head administrator, if I'm not convinced with this and believe this is a game of favoritism that I am not able to resolve with said deputy, I'd raise it to the relevant people up the chain of staff.

A player begins to openly and aggressively mock a member of the lore team on public discord channels. They are not being constructive. What do you do and why?

In this case, I'd do what I always do, regardless if they are a member of staff or a player. Flaming, insulting, harassing or anything that is unpleasant is simply something I have not and will never tolerate. They will be told to stop, with failure to do so resulting in administrative action if I haven't given it out yet. I feel this question is not properly phrased for my position in the community along with other questions.

Hey there. Loow here.

I've been asked to give some honest opinions on this app by the applicant.

I've been urged to "tear into" said app.

I've been told to "go wild" here.

Okay.

Firstly, there's an old idea which I've always liked. The idea that staff positions are like a tech-tree or level-system on an rpg or turn-based game. Common strategies include using CCIA as a jumping-off point to reach other teams, etc. Personally, I started in lore, became a mod, and multiclassed so that I could be a mega-rare Loremin for a short time. Abosh fell into a classic trap by becoming an admin before going into lore, a stance which had been hard-coded to be impossible until recently.

Abosh botched his build early on by going the headmin route (a well known dead-end of progression). A recent patch made his lore ambitions more viable, but I still find it disrespectful to the meta that he has interests and dreams.

But I digress.

Abosh has always been terribly easy to get along with, and it's somewhat off-putting. When I joined lore, it was because I was a loud, obnoxious upstart who assumed he could handle some themes pretty well. If Abosh wanted to be in lore, he should have been more immediately hostile to the current devs of his time and taken to insulting them personally. Rather than gradually bringing up concerns and feedback over time, he should have exploded into the scene suddenly, and with reckless abandon. All in all, he's really not handling this whole "lore" thing in the way self-entitled "outsiders" traditionally do. This in unsettling, and I think anyone responding to this app should consider such things.

Moving on.

Deputies, as they exist, are experimental, gross, and kind of scary. I foresee a lot of overreaching, big egos, and quality banter. I barely view "Human Lore Dev" as a position itself. I've traditionally held the belief that the position should be named, "A loredev who happens to work a lot on Humanity", but the phrase has failed to catch on. Zundy's hard work, willingness to let others chime in, and lack of metal gear references are some of the only things which are causing me to gradually respect the position, even if I do see it as accessory. With this in mind, I'm fairly certain that I'll see "Human Lore Deputies" as even more accessory. Like a necklace with little rings around it. Frankly, I can't apologize enough to anyone who wants this position.

But never mind that.

Abosh has offered interesting bits of feedback in the past. He once offered two apps for Skrell lore at the same time. After my initial rage at the sudden influx of work to be done passed, I found them to be quite interesting. He is able to take critique quite well from what I've seen so far.

Frankly, if he can handle my sometimes mildly insulting banter, I'm sure he can handle being at "the bottom of the totem pole" in the lore chat. Typically, Admins who want to do lore-work are met with raised eyebrows. As legend says, their red-text and bwoink powers typically cause them to lose any sense of humility.

I don't foresee this issue with Abosh.

That said, much of his lore-philosophy aligns with mine, and he occasionally brings me joy by recognizing themes I write without being prompted.

But I wasn't told to write nice things here, so let's not dwell on that.

There's more to say on this app, as there always is.

But that's a good start.

Actually, let's reverse roles for a bit.

[mention]Zundy[/mention] Is me releasing content every week a fixed thing?

How do you plan to keep in touch with the deputies?

Will you use any platform to organize work?

Will there be a vetting process on content? If so, how?

Abos has always been pretty involved in the lore and made his best efforts to improve it through personal canonization apps or just working with the team to help improve things, and I have no doubt that as a member of it he'd contribute just as much if not more than he already has. He's already proven his writing capabilities through the aforementioned apps and his short stories, and is certainly active enough to sustain a reasonable amount of work for the team.

All I can do here is leave even more positive feedback. It's very evident that Abo is very involved in human lore, and he has shown his writing prowess via the stories he's written and the lore canonization apps he's made. He is also active enough for the position. It's a definite +1 from me.

Very active, very knowledgeable given that he's worked so much on Lore in the past, entirely capable of handling the responsibilities.

Well, since I did say I felt the questions provided to me didn't touch on the lore aspects of this application enough and [mention]Doc[/mention] is more or less in agreement with me on this, so we together went the extra mile and did it ourselves. We did this in around 3 hours combined over an entire day, this includes the actual writing, research, and multiple proof readings.

The following spoiler will include a rewritten page on the Sol Military. The current pages which I'll link are a bloated mess frankly, with a lot of redundant information, or even factually correct ones that aren't required. I decided to make the rank list and hierarchy correct for the SAF and in the ended deleted it. Anyway, enough of my rambling, I've condensed the following

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Sol_Alliance_Military

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Sol_Alliance_Navy#Navy

https://wiki.aurorastation.org/index.php?title=Sol_Alliance_Army

Into the following, note that anything underlined is done so to emphasize that in my googledoc I've used them as hyperlines. They would take you to other wiki pages or articles in the news.

[mention]Sharp[/mention]

Is me releasing content every week a fixed thing?

Yes but to manage expectations I don't mean in the same vein as the work you've just presented for this app (sol mil), but something tangible - a paragraph here and there for example. Obviously this is a hobby so if you can't do it due to pressing life issues that's fine but if you want to do monthly work then there's no point in even being a deputy; you may as well just send in lore apps.

How do you plan to keep in touch with the deputies?

Discord, forums and if the need arises I'll create an aurora specific email for the team to contact me.

Will you use any platform to organize work?

We'll see how it goes. Potentially a thread on the forums or a Google shared doc. This is a new thing for the aurora so it's very much being played by ear.

Will there be a vetting process on content? If so, how?

A simple case of running your ideas by me would suffice followed by showing a draft. It's very likely I'll give you a direction to follow and give you a freedom to apply yourself as you see feet to my direction. For example I might ask you to work on the military pages for the human factions with caveats. At which point you'd be largely be free to do as you like taking into consideration the caveats themselves (not too detailed, keep the theme X etc).

I don't think there's a more superior choice for this sort of candidacy role. I know that I am quite notorious for long-winded paragraphs when I don't like something but I'm quite the opposite when it comes to me endorsing something because I find it difficult to criticize something that has more potential to be rewarding than it has to possess inherent faults.

I don't think I couldn't support this application, seeing what Aboshe and Doc intend to do for the Solarian military pages. Aside from that, Aboshe is an extremely patient and well-known Head Administrator. There's really no reason to shake my head at this, the man should be a Deputy Developer, and I'll endorse it because of that.

Well, well, well looks like everyone pussied out of giving negative critique, maybe because it's pretty fucking hard to critique you to begin with, but as the Resident Asshole™ I have a special place in my heart that allows me to tap into critique unknown to an ordinary man.

So let's start.

Everyone has something they prefer to write about, I like psychological horror, Loow's articles tend to be high in spirits etc. etc.

But your articles are somewhat, same?

Now I read your things I read your stories, they're nice, nice but there is a certain feature to all of them and that is a general aura of strictness, nationality and dare I say, millitary decour.

Memorial, Anthem, Anthem, Armed forces, A story about a soldier, co-operation on Armed forces with doc, A Technocracy,Bursa Memorial Article, Synthetic fear and then one article about Aurora 2.

See what I'm getting at? You seem to have a big connection to the millitaristic/boots on ground lifestyle, I think it even reflects in your characters a bit.

I have a small yet deeply rooted concern about your legitimacy as an author of more mundane and civilian inspired stuff. Like I said a minor concern because I know you're capable of self-restriction but I think it's something to keep in mind while working, in general people like to work on their favorite things and it might end up a lot less of a "Let me work on this thing, I have a lot of experience" and more of a "Let's bring this thing into the lore because I have a lot of experience on it"

Next, you tend to miss your own mistakes.

I think it's very nice you requested multiple people to tear into you because you realise this as one of your weaknesses, you're the sort of person who gets charmed with an idea which they from then on pursue without realizing what they're treading on.

Now I'm not saying you're not self-critical, you're just not very good at identifying the problems you yourself have and as a headmin that can be quite frustrating as a lot of people just want to climb up your asshole.

I think you'll need a lot of back&forth with your other lore deputy's and lore maintainer to get the proper critique you need but I know you're working on this problem so it shouldn't be an issue.

Otherwise I don't know how to tear into you, I support you that's for sure.

Everyone has something they prefer to write about, I like psychological horror, Loow's articles tend to be high in spirits etc. etc.

But your articles are somewhat, same?

Now I read your things I read your stories, they're nice, nice but there is a certain feature to all of them and that is a general aura of strictness, nationality and dare I say, millitary decour.

Memorial, Anthem, Anthem, Armed forces, A story about a soldier, co-operation on Armed forces with doc, A Technocracy,Bursa Memorial Article, Synthetic fear and then one article about Aurora 2.

True, minor thing but I also made one about a Skrell based martial arts, which I guess emphasizes your point more.

See what I'm getting at? You seem to have a big connection to the millitaristic/boots on ground lifestyle, I think it even reflects in your characters a bit.

I have a small yet deeply rooted concern about your legitimacy as an author of more mundane and civilian inspired stuff. Like I said a minor concern because I know you're capable of self-restriction but I think it's something to keep in mind while working, in general people like to work on their favorite things and it might end up a lot less of a "Let me work on this thing, I have a lot of experience" and more of a "Let's bring this thing into the lore because I have a lot of experience on it"

I get you, completely. I suppose it's partial due to how I play certain of my characters, appeals and certain lifestyle choices and things I've grown accustomed to that makes me write in regard to these. Everyone prefers writing things they know well and like, and I'm no exception. The thing is, these aren't the only things I like to write, but rather the only things I've been able to bring up in lore canonization application. I've created an entire star system, culture, cuisine, habits, and a plethora of other things for one of my characters, which some of you know as "Raymond Hawkins". I guess I'm ultimately saying is that I wrote those because I enjoy them, and I wanted to flesh out that side of lore from an unofficial stance through lore apps and by helping the lore team.

This is something I'm keeping into consideration, I've already planned a set of things I intend to introduce as cultural things, like movies and other local festivities, things that feel relevant to the characters and the station, even if it's just water cooler talk, it's still something. Doc in my opinion is a very critical person and is someone I also trust to help keep me in check along with the other staff. I believe I'm perceptive enough, critical of what I do and receptive to feedback/critique that I wouldn't really be writing things that people don't care about.

Next, you tend to miss your own mistakes.

I think it's very nice you requested multiple people to tear into you because you realise this as one of your weaknesses, you're the sort of person who gets charmed with an idea which they from then on pursue without realizing what they're treading on.

Now I'm not saying you're not self-critical, you're just not very good at identifying the problems you yourself have and as a headmin that can be quite frustrating as a lot of people just want to climb up your asshole.

Can't really say much about this, I try to adjust myself accordingly and I do constantly ask for opinions from people, including from you Coalf. I'm a human being and susceptible to mistakes as much as anyone, with my morals, upbringing and my train of thought guiding me. Sometimes it's flawed but no one brings it up, which I admit get really frustrating when I hear a complaint months after something I've done. I think this will essentially boil down to the deputy team I'm assigned with, and being hopeful they do bring up concerns with me. I've always tried having an open door policy and I don't believe I've shouted down anyone bringing up any form of constructive criticism, even if it lacked tact. Maybe I'd note the lack of tact or manners, but I'd still respond to it.

I think this about covers everything. [mention]Coalf[/mention]

Hey nothing to respond to, those were just pointers not arguments things I've noticed and I already said I trust you since you have self-restraint and know how.

So yeah I supported it, I support it and I'll keep supporting.W

Alea iacta est

I support Abo's application as well. Honestly I would have been incredibly surprised if he hadn't applied. I know Abo is a solid headmin and has his head on right for lore.

-1. He is clearly using this to get a lore position so he can leave us as our Head Admin D:<

Kidding. Abo will be good. Hire him.

as much as abo is a great guy, i will always maintain that admin staff shouldn't be on the lore team.

-1

as much as abo is a great guy, i will always maintain that admin staff shouldn't be on the lore team.

-1

Can I ask why?

as much as abo is a great guy, i will always maintain that admin staff shouldn't be on the lore team.

-1

 

Can I ask why?

I think more is better, as far as lore team and staff team diversity. More involvement from the players, and a bigger net being cast to get things done.

I believe Abosh would be a good addition to the lore team, even as deputy. He has done much lore work in the past, is always active and plays on the server, so he has some contact with the environment he could be developing lorewise. The fact that he is staff, I don't believe it matters much, since administrating and making lore are two different things. +1

as much as abo is a great guy, i will always maintain that admin staff shouldn't be on the lore team.

-1

 

Can I ask why?

 

I think more is better, as far as lore team and staff team diversity. More involvement from the players, and a bigger net being cast to get things done.

Much of the lore team and current applicants to it are (or have been) imported or shared from/with other staff teams (multiple mods, devs, CCIA and wiki). At the time of me writing this, you'd only be able to support one of the current applicants to this position if you are excluding people who participate on other teams, as it seems there is a lack of outside interest.

Are you calling out admins specifically when you take this stance? If not, what do you perceive as the problem with lore team members contributing to multiple staff teams?