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[Resolved] Staff Complaint - satinspriest666


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BYOND Key: Arrow768

Staff BYOND Key: satinspriest666

Game ID: bUT-df9Y

Reason for complaint:

During a situation in the medical bay where a hostile intruder, who previously killed the hos and the captain was in a standoff with security and the HoP the CMO walked up to the intruder and injected them with chloral hydrate while they were talking with the HoP / Security.


I do not believe that a proper investigation into the issue has been conducted.

Evidence/logs/etc:

I only have my side of the ahelp:

ahelp.png.9fc07e87b5fcccd7ba256b676ebc8ac5.png

 

Additional remarks:

I do not believe that it is proper for a CMO to chloral a antag unless it is in self defence.

Using it offensively and while they are talking to security / the HoP is not really behaviour that is (imho) acceptable unless they are part of a coordinated assault.

But soloing a antag with chloral is just validhunting. Even more so when they are currently talking with someone else and the CMOs life is not in danger.

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I spoke with Resi on why Fernando did it and they explained that all the officers around them were in "orange" or "pain" health. (They have a healthHUD, so that's how they saw the officers were hurt and dying). Fernando decided to try and keep everyone alive and went with his gut by putting them to sleep.


I've seen Fernando's character a lot, and that sort of action from that character doesn't sway from how they respond to situations, or act. The ninja from this round was cutting peoples legs off, murdering multiple crew members (including some heads of staff), and went to into Medbay at the end to (I assume) heal themselves. Security was getting hammered the whole round.


So I didn't see it as that big of an issue since it didn't sway from Resi's CMO's character design, and the officers around them were in a decent amount of pain.

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Yes, there were two officers that tried to take down the ninja, before the HoP walked in with two more officers (in pretty good health) and started talking with them.


While the HoP was talking with them the CMO injected Chloral Hydrate into the Ninja.

Ending the round.

So I didn't see it as that big of an issue since it didn't sway from Resi's CMO's character design

Its not a question if its proper character design or not.

It is a question if its validhunting or not.

There are quite a few CMOs that used the hypospray to rush and chloral antags.

Afaik this is one of the things that you shouldnt do unless you have a very good reason as CMO. (i.e. your life or the life of other crew members is in danger)

Which was not the case at the time, as the ninja cut off one foot of the persons attacking them minutes before and was currently talking with the HoP and two more security officers.


To me it seems that you are trying to push the narrative of "They went with their gut and it fits the character design and thats why its fine".

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Here are my logs from the incident. I walk in, I see multiple officers in the orange, the HoS is dying and stammering on the ground, in the middle of my ICU. I didn't see any discussion with the HoP. I'm not saying there wasn't any, just that I didn't know of it. Fernando just saw an intruder who had killed multiple heads of staff with injured and dying people around him in his department and the HoS calling for help, he assumed.

 

01.png.33d56d8532a068a3c9be710a94fcb6d5.png

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Myself and Matt spoke to each other about this type of situation last night, and have both come to the conclusion that running in and hypospray sophoricing an Antag is super unfun, and can be concidered powergaming and or validhunting based off of how we have handled these types of situations in the past. I personally think it's a cheap way to end the round, see an Antsy, run up to them and click them before they can react. I will continue to talk with other staff members on the situation, but for now this is how I feel about it.

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I played this round and was involved with the antag... I'm not saying the antag did anything wrong, they actually did a good job of RPing a gimmick and such, but, ninja played a certain way is virtually unstoppable and has pretty high grief potential (it's one-shot to cut off someone's foot and cripple them]


Tajaran ninjas are fast and the player knew the station and how to play ninja very, very well. There was no time for calling ERTs, Escape Shuttles (one was called and recalled), or setting traps, because everyone's feet or heads were off before it was understood that the "intruder" was exceptionally violent/on the attack. If I had ordered security to make ready with ions and lethals from the instant we saw the first teleportation, that would have been unsatisfying and meta as well.


I feel like in this scenario, a sneak-attack of this sort was appropriate and just about the only thing that could have brought it to a close outside of the entire station surrendering to one ninja.


In this case, Resi used a very overpowered technique against a very overpowered antagonist (and I think it was fair) LONG after the antagonist had dragged the station through over an hour of "amputation/murder teleport hide and seek", and I'm sure everyone was very tired of it after the first 20 minutes.


If it's "meta" to load a hypospray with KO chems for defending medbay, then it's "meta" to take advantage of the e-sword chopping off feet mechanic, too. It's not like Fernando didn't have a clear heads up that there was a murderer running around cutting off feet and heads in rapid succession to prepare for the situation, and, it's not like Fernando specifically came after the ninja and did this. They were in medbay, surrounded by the corpses and cut off limbs of their victims.


I'd have a pretty big issue with this if it happened at the very beginning of an antag's round, but, after an antag has demonstrated that they are going to use the most direct, brutal, nigh-unstoppable tactics to get what they want for so long, an in-kind answer should not be off of the table for the crew. Especially with nerfing to armory content and other crew defensive capabilities. It may be a "cheap way to end the round" but, the round was full of cheap round-endings for other players at this point, and the time had come.


So in closing:

1) The round was fun, but had run its course - pretty sure nobody but the ninja enjoys teleport murder-tag.

2) Resi acted reasonably, IMO, this was in no way validhunting given the heads up and level of danger the ninja had caused, and since all other viable responses had been pre-empted/canceled.

3) Some balance issues showed themselves here: e-sword vs feet/overall damage too high, chemicals in hypospray maybe too quick to apply.

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I do believe that there needs to be (And is in the process of happening) a change mechanically with how the Hypospray works, Being able to inject someone wearing a rigsuit/hardsuit/voidsuit is super unrealistic, seeing as all a hypospray is, is a pulse of air that pushes through the skin to inject chemicals directly into the bloodstream without the need of a needle, being able to instantly metabolize chemicals in the blood stream through a suit, with out the use of the injection port like every other instance of injectors uses is pretty overpowered.


I'd like some feedback from [mention]SatinsPristOTD[/mention], [mention]Resilynn[/mention], and [mention]Arrow768[/mention] before I move forward with this complaint.

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Well, like I said. Given the situation, I felt it would be okay to apply. The ninja was standing amid multiple members of security who were on the ground, in the middle of the icu. I wasn’t aware they were talking to anyone or negotiating, I saw the HoS on the ground, in orange, stuttering right beside them (I posted a screenshot). We were pretty far into the round, a lot of people had been injured and killed. So I thought it was reasonable to defend my department and my patients who were dying at the ninjas feet. I have an HUD after all, I knew they were not doing well.

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The PR to change that is already up.

https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/4894

 

The ninja was standing amid multiple members of security who were on the ground, in the middle of the icu. I wasn’t aware they were talking to anyone or negotiating, I saw the HoS on the ground, in orange, stuttering right beside them (I posted a screenshot).

 

You werent aware that they were talking to someone, because you rushed in without the full knowledge of the situation.

The security members in question were buckled to the rollerbeds and being treated by your doctors. The ninja didnt attack them further.


But that issue is already alleviated with the mechanic change above.


The reason why I opened the staff complaint is because I do not think that satinspriest conducted a proper investigation into the matter and just pushed a narrative of "it fits your character".

I believe it would be interesting to actually take a look at the other side of the ahelp.

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I asked them why their character did what they did and Resi responded. I had seen most of the Medical issue with my own eyes. With the HoS shooting the Ninja randomly with a shotgun, to half of Security down with their feet missing, I didn't see it as a "valid hunt" or any other means.


If I'm wrong, then I am wrong and I can accept that graciously.

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After reviewing the evidence, Strudel and I have decided that in this context what Fernando did was acceptable to end the round, as the round had clearly run its course.


However, chloraling the antag is still quite cheap and powergamey. We are considering this fine because of the future change in the hyposprays. As long as it is held as a last-last result however it will be fine.


Satin will be spoken to about these kind of situations and other less-common powergaming situations and how to handle them.


We are considering this resolved and locking this in 24h.

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