[Resolved] Warning Appeal

BYOND Key: keinto

Staff BYOND Key: alberyk

Game ID: It was over a week ago so I cannot find it

Reason for complaint: I apologize to all the involved parties for making this thread so late. But since I don't know when this warning will expire, and the fact that I still disagree with alberyk's ruling, I am making it about a week and a half later.

I joined as HoS during a revolution round and was instantly turned into a loyalist head by the gamemode. At this time I cannot even recall what the premise of the announcements were. At some point, however, the merchant (played by @Azande IIRC) begins advertising GUNS to the CREW to arm themselves for REVOLUTION. I quickly gathered a few officers with laserifles and the like on the surface level and conflict begins between the responding officers a crewmember inside the ship with the merchant. I arrive and gunfire is exchanged briefly until the merchant retreats into their cockpit. Only they, one security officer, and myself end up inside the ship after the fight deescalates. The merchant sends the ship back to their warehouse and refuses to return the ship until I apologize for attempting to stop them from selling weapons to the crew without weapon permits. We argue some more and reach a compromise.

@Alberyk had begun PMing me about my actions around the time I entered the ship so I dealt with his chat and the chaos IC at the same time. The fact that I am one of the main antagonists of a revolution round where the merchant was inciting violent REVOLUTION didn't seem to matter to him and then he issues me a warning:

"ordering the arrest of a merchant with little investigation, because they were selling contraband to the crew, and then having security assault the ship, take in mind that the merchant is allowed to have 'contraband' and sell it, and you are supossed to get in contact with central command in case anything, only try to interfere if it is really needed"

While I think the steps he tells me to take are good during a standard round, I think I had enough reasons to take swift action in the manner I did during a round that was less than standard.

Evidence/logs/etc: N/A

Additional remarks: N/A

Except the arrest of the merchant happened, and it caused a clusterfuck at the time. Besides, the merchant is indeed allowed to sell whatever they can into their ship, which you could have just sent a message to central command if you saw any issue. And the directives were really clear about this, you can't arrest the merchant for having the crew, you could have arrested the people buying it or just sent a cc message and we could have recalled/handle the merchant doing it. The directives we put in place were pretty much set to avoid this kind of thing, and it seems there was a confusion between the first and the second merchant that also contributed to the arrest, that is why the little investigation part was also added. And I am sure it is a regular warning, not a major one.

I'm pretty sure Azande's merchant was both the one who advertised armed revolution and the one I confronted in the shuttle, so I ask them to correct me if I am wrong. I admit I violated the station directive regarding the merchant, but I would like to know why I wasn't given any leeway whatsoever when I am an antagonist and the person I am confronting is directly assisting the party opposite to me in a way that will result in lethal conflicts.

I'm pretty sure Azande's merchant was both the one who advertised armed revolution and the one I confronted in the shuttle, so I ask them to correct me if I am wrong. I admit I violated the station directive regarding the merchant, but I would like to know why I wasn't given any leeway whatsoever when I am an antagonist and the person I am confronting is directly assisting the party opposite to me in a way that will result in lethal conflicts.

There was two merchants at the time, which seems security did take little time to investigate who was selling weapons to the crew. And I did not take being an antag in consideration because you did not explain, neither it did show, that arresting the merchant was related to any agenda that the loyalists were trying to push at the time, and as I said, lack of communication and the decision being rushed as the hos was one of the main issues here as well. Also, the warning was also motivated due to your past notes related to being a head of staff.

I have spoken to Azande on discord about their actions and I've received permission to quote:

I fail to see what else needs investigating when I myself had heard them encouraging the crew to buy weapons for anything else other than collecting or self-defense. There was never this confusion about the other merchant that you keep bringing up. It was the same person.

Also, rushing a third-party shuttle after they have done something like this is nothing compared to other things I have seen loyalist HoS's and Captains do, usually resulting in bloodbaths because they side with the company over anything or anyone else. Violating a newly added directive with loopholes while only seeking to arrest isn't the same as publicly executing someone in the holodeck or mass-cyborgifying people for amber level infractions. Those people are not given warnings for this kind of behavior as far as I know. I simply acted swiftly against someone who isn't even part of the company and was going to get lethal equipment to the crew who had already started to be violent.

I'm pretty sure Azande's merchant was both the one who advertised armed revolution and the one I confronted in the shuttle, so I ask them to correct me if I am wrong. I admit I violated the station directive regarding the merchant, but I would like to know why I wasn't given any leeway whatsoever when I am an antagonist and the person I am confronting is directly assisting the party opposite to me in a way that will result in lethal conflicts.

It was a pretty serious miscommunication issue that could have been resolved if you had verified the names. you would have found out that there where indeed two merchants and arresting a merchant that just joined is, butts. I just didnt really think your antagonist status was a good excuse.

Again, I have just shown you evidence that the merchant I confronted in person was the same one I had heard on the radio. The other merchant had nothing to do with the incident. Unless you can provide logs indicating otherwise, why do you keep bringing them up?

Again, I have just shown you evidence that the merchant I confronted in person was the same one I had heard on the radio. The other merchant had nothing to do with the incident. Unless you can provide logs indicating otherwise, why do you keep bringing them up?

they said it. they never actually sold anything. they had JUST arrived. the one who had actually sold weapons was the merchant who cryoed. I dont recall you being an antag ever being brought up in the PMs. You definitely could have sanctioned them but security barging in without even understanding station directives isnt really something im going to condone. antag or not.

Thaaaaaaat being said i do see your point. I will admit im kinda biased here. Ill have another administrator look this over. we can probably expunge the warning entirely and chalk it up to a "well i know the directive now :P"

yeah, consider the warning expunged (because it is). Shameonturtles checked this over and agrees. Sorry man but if theirs nothing else ill consider this resolved and archive it in 24 hours.

Thank you both for your time.