[Resolved] Player Complaint: kyres1 and trazz666

BYOND Key:Kaed

Game ID: bQh-aU9y

Player Byond Key: kyres1 and trazz666

Staff involved: N/A

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? This was, primarily at the time, an IC issue. I considered for some time whether this should be an IR instead, but I'm making this a player complaint for two reasons. First, this was a moderately active round, and several parts of the issue involved an antagonist. Second, some of the behaviors in question involve what seem to be a more ooc issue with attitude than the characters themselves.

Reason for complaint: The main subject of this complaint involves the character and player of Jaylee Zaun, but Yahir Jones and their players is also involved in it, for reasons I'll get to eventually. So I'll give a brief summary of the relevant events.

One of the first events in this round, which was a voted vampire round, was the chef-vampire trying to attack Zaun. They failed, and Zaun trashed them, but that wasn't really the root of the problem, just the start. It was followed up shortly after with Zaun announcing the results of the fight, and expressing at length about why the chef should kill themselves.

Through the course of the round, Zaun continued to be increasingly, almost irrationally aggressive towards various crew members, frequently threatening to attack them with the bar shotgun if they set foot inside or said bar. At one point, there was some sort of incident involving her and Yahir Jones, where they decided they did not enjoy the sound of the a piano one of the crew members was playing with (and okay, musical instruments in this game are really annoying I get it but come on) and as a result, Jones spent a large amount of effort dragging that piano all the way to engineering to shove it into the supermatter, disregarding a rolling power outage in the process of pursuing their ridiculous meme challenge to annihilate the piano in the most excessive possible way.

As a result of all that, a fight broke out between Zaun and the individual who had been apparently very fond of the piano. She was eventually summoned to the brig via a warrant, which was presented to her, and rather than just going, opted to cock her shotgun like the turbo edgelord their player evidently thought it was cool to play and tell the warden who had gone to fetch her (on personal request and permission of the HoS) that she wasn't going to go. (The warden won) I am unsure of what happened between her being brought into questioning and the end of the round, because one of my officers got dominated and interrupted us beat my chest in so I had to spend time in surgery.

I will bring up Yahir again here, because they were also involved in a minor issue at the beginning of the round, where there was a disruptive conversation on the common channel about some stupid stuff that I frankly can't remember the contents of. Something about gender roles, maybe? I had several complaints from crew about it, and didn't want to listen to it myself, so warned them (Yahir and the others involved) to little effect several times to stop abusing the common channel. Eventually, I had to deliver an ultimatum over the HoS announcement broadcaster that the common channel was restricted to vital communications only for the next five minutes or I would have it turned off.

It stopped at that, but I got a PDA message from Yahir shortly later that amounted to "You can't do that, if you have the AI turn off the comms, I'll break in and turn them back on." I largely ignored that, because I had no interest to getting into an pointless argument.

The point of this scattered summary is that both of them display the behaviors of someone who is almost adolescent in their desire to make their character anti-authoritarian and full of disdain for anything resembling logical behavior. Zaun is aggressive to the point of being nearly psychotic, and Yahir seems to think it's just fine to do whatever the hell they want and anyone who says otherwise is just an obstacle to get around. I think they might also have some kind of metabuddy thing going on, because they seem to be involved in each others shenanigans a lot?

I've had other express their OOC irritation with the behavior of both of these characters too, and I think they should really curb the amount of edgelord they have invested into their characters. Maybe even design a new one that seems like it would actually fit in a structured work environment where publicly threatening to fire a gun at your coworkers or telling the head of security that 'they can't tell you what to do' would get you fired.

Approximate Date/Time: 9/3/217, about 1-3 AM CST

We'll point the two mentioned players in question to this complaint if they pop around on-server.

Honestly, I think this was more of a IC issue for Jones. The comms thing can be IRed. I was never really part of the piano side but I started the comms thing by doing something along the lines of "Oita beeps in annoying tones in diffrent patterns and pitches"

It caused everyone to ;!beep in response as it soon turned into physisofical questions about diffrent things from me. Anyway, the comms thing should be considered IC and there was no antag interaction to my knowledge with it.

I was just gonna let this blow by, because honestly that round was such shit on my end as well I was contemplating my own player complaint, but a mod recommended I reply so I'm doing so in good faith. For ease of readability (and organizing on my part) I'll make a list of each of the perceived offences and my response to them. (Ok, so I'm a noob at these new forums and can't get a proper list going. I'll just use bullet points)

• "...expressing at length about why the chef should kill themselves".

• Aggressive with the shotgun

• Piano

• The Warrant

• Aggression in general

So, the easiest one will be point 1. While yes, telling someone they should kill themself is a very IC thing for Jaylee to do, I don't believe I expressed it at length. I maybe mentioned it once or even twice, but I never would of been excessive about it.

Point 2 is also easy, as I only openly threaten people with the shotgun if they've been violent in the bar, or have given another reason to warrant that reaction. Further, unless my memory is wrong, I only threatened it to the chef who attacked me. (Also, someone with the last name 'Nash' comes to mind? Though that may have been another round.)

3. The piano. Honestly, that was probably my older SS13 side showing (which reflects accurately with Jaylee's out-dated engineering knowledge). I didn't realize throwing things into the engine was so complicated and detrimental to the station now. Used to be, you threw whatever you wanted gone into the singularity and it would be gone forever. I also distinctly remember saying something along the lines of 'throw it into whatever monstrosity keeps the station powered nowadays so it can never come back', which it neither here nor there, but reflects my ignorance to how engineering is done now.

4. The warrant was the catalyst for my disdain for that round, and part of the reason I was considering a complaint myself. I maintain that I felt (both IC and OOC) that the warrant was invalid, and that my reaction was realistic. The warrant that was presented to me was an arrest warrant for stealing, and destroying the piano. Multiple witnesses claimed I didn't do it, and Yahir was even admitting the guilt, but the warden persisted so I acted accordingly as someone who was just recently nearly murdered and could not trust the person attempting the arrest (I could go into that more, but that'd just reinvigorate my anger for the round and de-rail the complaint.). My only regret in the situation was not actually firing the shotgun, or using any of the other means of defense I had on me. Would of saved me a lot of headache for the round as a whole.

5. The aggression in general. Eh, not much to say there. I was furious IRL and IC, and if there's anything I can say about Jaylee is she doesn't keep her emotions bottled up, but that's just me acting through my character what I can't do in real life. That's a purely IC thing that you happened to catch at a bad time (I can assure you, she's very pleasant when a murderer hasn't tried cutting off her head with a knife). The rules say that (when taking antag actions into account for IC behavior) "keep in mind that traumatic events, such as being involved in firefights and high stress situations, will have a tangible effect on your character." so I figured I was acting accordingly.

4. The warrant was the catalyst for my disdain for that round, and part of the reason I was considering a complaint myself. I maintain that I felt (both IC and OOC) that the warrant was invalid, and that my reaction was realistic. The warrant that was presented to me was an arrest warrant for stealing, and destroying the piano. Multiple witnesses claimed I didn't do it, and Yahir was even admitting the guilt, but the warden persisted so I acted accordingly as someone who was just recently nearly murdered and could not trust the person attempting the arrest (I could go into that more, but that'd just reinvigorate my anger for the round and de-rail the complaint.). My only regret in the situation was not actually firing the shotgun, or using any of the other means of defense I had on me. Would of saved me a lot of headache for the round as a whole.

This is part of the reason I had been considering including the Warden into the complaint here, but I decided, at the time, that I should keep my irritating focused on a less broad list of individuals. During this round, the warden was primarily my go between for issues with the crew and officers. As a player, and also generally as my HoS character, I don't have a lot of patience for the common channel, and during long rounds with lots of inane chatter in it, I tend to tune it out. I also tend to play a moderately more administrative HoS than the kind that goes around patrolling the station constantly like a better equipped officer. (It's also worth noting that this round, I say this for context so you will understand when I say that often times I defer to my warden to explain the points of the latest issue that I have missed.

Regarding the warrant, then. Here is how it happened, with some commentary by me based on post-round consideration.

When Jaylee first began threatening to shoot someone in the bar, it was about ten minutes after the actual fight between the vamp and her. I was not particularly aware that it was the chef with whom she had previously fought. Like many unathi, my HoS character (and myself, ooc) sort of blends together human names unless they are particularly memorable for some reason, like because they got my attention for being prats or are strange and exotic (like Jaylee Zaun). There was some talk in security chat about having you arrested at the time for threatening to murder a crewmember, but that was mostly from Sakaei (the warden). The officers disagreed mostly, since your shotgun was largely nonlethal, but no one actually brought up at the time that you were barring the person who attacked you from the bar (I feel like this would have been important context). Either way, though ooc I sort of agreed with Sakaei about workplace conduct, my HoS as a character couldn't be bothered enough to write up a warrant for her unless she actually performed the attack (I'm fairly certain that in unathi culture threats of violence are sort of passe, way more than the sensitive humans), so that went nowhere, but I did make a note of it.

When it came to the events with the piano, we questioned the individual who had the piano first, because they had been arrested on assault charges against Zaun. They told a story of you antagonizing them for some time, by doing things like opening the crates on their trolley so everything spilled out, and taking their piano, until they snapped. They were screaming 'FUCK ZAUN' for some time when they were dropped into my lap in the brig, and I had to calm them down enough before I could even get an account. As such, I issued a warrant for you to be brought in, mostly so I could have a talk with you about your behavior. Depending on how that talk went, harrassment/hooliganism charges may or may not have been placed against Zaun. As I'm sure you're aware, it never happened, because vampire domination caused its interruption.

Here is where I think some communication lines broke down.

-The first issue here is that the warrant forms have, for reasons I cannot fathom, no portion of them that you can fill in to indicate why you are being arrested. It is simply "Name of offender, their position, sign here".

-I handed the warrant to Sakaei, the warden, and told him to convey it to an officer.

-He pleaded to be allowed to do the arrest himself, and I permitted it.

-Evidently, I should have been more clear about the reason for the warrant, because at the time I thought it was fairly evident that you were a troublemaker, not a thief. At no point did I actually hold you responsible for the piano's theft, other than as a spectator egging Jones on. I was not aware until this post that you were told the arrest was due to theft. I too would have objected to being told I was being arrested for a charge I did not commit.

-Apparently following my chest being beaten in the Warden took it on himself to charge you for the same crimes he arrested you for? I don't know, but by the time I got back he was going full Bad Cop on you, dragging you around in cuffs and throwing you into chair until I told him to go do something else so I could convey you to the shuttle in a civilized fashion.

-Apparently following my chest being beaten in the Warden took it on himself to charge you for the same crimes he arrested you for? I don't know, but by the time I got back he was going full Bad Cop on you, dragging you around in cuffs and throwing you into chair until I told him to go do something else so I could convey you to the shuttle in a civilized fashion.

Yeah, that was a big pat of what made that round terrible. The other officers were even threatening to go to internal affairs over his conduct. He also didn't take my take in the brig into consideration for my sentencing time (which was a long time, as I'm sure you remember).

And honestly, I should of been able to guess he would plead to do the arrest himself. He was already super antagonistic to me the round, he may have done it in hopes that I would of fought back so he could attack me, which he obviously did.

Coincidentally, the person who was yelling 'FUCK ZAUN' when they were arrested for assaulting me (Anthony Radic) was the person who removed the glass panel from the bar to allow the warden entrance to attack me. It should also be worth noting the only thing I did to Radic was open a crate he was pulling. I figured since he put the piano in the bar against my will to annoy me, I would minorly annoy him, which he responded by decking me in the face with a security officer standing nearby.

-Apparently following my chest being beaten in the Warden took it on himself to charge you for the same crimes he arrested you for? I don't know, but by the time I got back he was going full Bad Cop on you, dragging you around in cuffs and throwing you into chair until I told him to go do something else so I could convey you to the shuttle in a civilized fashion.

 

Yeah, that was a big pat of what made that round terrible. The other officers were even threatening to go to internal affairs over his conduct. He also didn't take my take in the brig into consideration for my sentencing time (which was a long time, as I'm sure you remember).

And honestly, I should of been able to guess he would plead to do the arrest himself. He was already super antagonistic to me the round, he may have done it in hopes that I would of fought back so he could attack me, which he obviously did.

Coincidentally, the person who was yelling 'FUCK ZAUN' when they were arrested for assaulting me (Anthony Radic) was the person who removed the glass panel from the bar to allow the warden entrance to attack me. It should also be worth noting the only thing I did to Radic was open a crate he was pulling. I figured since he put the piano in the bar against my will to annoy me, I would minorly annoy him, which he responded by decking me in the face with a security officer standing nearby.

I think this also the round where Ketriss (forensics that round) and Sakaei spend the entire shift bickering with each other like hatchlings children, to the point where I was getting ready to literally pull them both into my office and give them a grown up equivalent of a scolding and time out. Things kept coming up though, and I didn't have the time to indulge in Papa Lizard Is Disappoint.

If you felt unnecessarily antagonized by Sakaei, I urge you to make a complaint yourself. I don't know enough about what happened to do more than pitch in my two cents if you make it.

While I don't super like that Zaun tends towards BLUH BLUH HUGE BITCH I feel like this discourse has given some insight into it.

Haven't heard much from Jones, though. other than someone thinking that part should be split off into an IR?

Alright, so this is my first post ever and it's a shame it has to be a reply to a complaint of all things. I won't complain though as it's best I throw my two cents in while I can.

Firstly, before I move on to my response, this is my first time roleplaying with Kaed's characters to my knowledge. Feel free to prove me wrong but I feel it's worth noting when, to me, it is a first incident report.

Secondly, I'd like to state that I have nothing to do with Traz other than an IC friendship between Zaun and Yahir. I've never even talked to them OOCly.

Anyway -

At one point, there was some sort of incident involving her and Yahir Jones, where they decided they did not enjoy the sound of the a piano one of the crew members was playing with (and okay, musical instruments in this game are really annoying I get it but come on) and as a result, Jones spent a large amount of effort dragging that piano all the way to engineering to shove it into the supermatter, disregarding a rolling power outage in the process of pursuing their ridiculous meme challenge to annihilate the piano in the most excessive possible way.

The majority of this is true barring the most important parts. The "rolling power outages" was the abnormal power grid activity event, and it activated whilst i was inside of the core already. Being the only engineer on board, the power outage obviously took priority over a piano, but at this point I had already pushed the piano into the crystal and had been making my way out. It was, indeed, a ridiculous meme challenge, but the repercussions for it were non existent. I resumed my engineering duty immediately after fixing the core and the power outage was resolved within minutes. The effort involved ctrl+clicking the piano and walking to the core was two, maybe three minutes of work, only amplified by Radic's IC frustration with the ordeal (because it was technically cargo's piano.)

I will bring up Yahir again here, because they were also involved in a minor issue at the beginning of the round, where there was a disruptive conversation on the common channel about some stupid stuff that I frankly can't remember the contents of. Something about gender roles, maybe? I had several complaints from crew about it, and didn't want to listen to it myself, so warned them (Yahir and the others involved) to little effect several times to stop abusing the common channel. Eventually, I had to deliver an ultimatum over the HoS announcement broadcaster that the common channel was restricted to vital communications only for the next five minutes or I would have it turned off.

This is an interesting way of wording things to make me out as the villain here. The discussion was regarding the place of workers in society and how a social hierarchy can place some over others. Genders were a passing subject almost immediately brushed over. It was an interesting IC discussion which, of course, had no place in the common channel. It should have been moved to the entertainment channel. My honest opinion though, is that instead of exhibiting an OOC discomfort over it purely and making your actions seem rash, to instead make your character fed up with it as well. Before the announcement there was no chatter from security telling us to stop - the announcement came, and it was you threatening to disable one of the station's most important functions for an otherwise mild misuse of it. Of course, ICly I'd have stepped in, being an engineer and actually caring about people with emergencies to scream over common. It's iffy as well, because I'm uncertain as to whether or not you even felt OOC discomfort or if it was your character after all. Both matter of course, we're just here to have fun - but give IC reason for such simple OOC issues and you'll go a long way.

The point of this scattered summary is that both of them display the behaviors of someone who is almost adolescent in their desire to make their character anti-authoritarian and full of disdain for anything resembling logical behavior. Zaun is aggressive to the point of being nearly psychotic, and Yahir seems to think it's just fine to do whatever the hell they want and anyone who says otherwise is just an obstacle to get around.

This seems oddly personal for, like I said, someone I've never even interacted with. Regardless, a worker caring about their own workplace's safety and stability (not to mention the friends he has within the workplace) would certainly go over a commanding staff's decision, especially over something which, IC, is incredibly menial and pointless. Not to mention the commanding staff being in a whole different department and perhaps not even understanding the vital function of telecommunications IC.

I've had other express their OOC irritation with the behavior of both of these characters too, and I think they should really curb the amount of edgelord they have invested into their characters. Maybe even design a new one that seems like it would actually fit in a structured work environment where publicly threatening to fire a gun at your coworkers or telling the head of security that 'they can't tell you what to do' would get you fired.

Stated before was the importance of one's workplace safety and, more importantly, the safety of their friends on board. This is reason enough to defy orders from someone whose reign is not over your own department and who may not even fully understand the implications of their orders, it being over another department's assets in this scenario.

As a closing statement, I don't play edge lords and I don't aspire to be known as one who does. How you came to the conclusion to lump the flamboyant sexual deviant discount Preston Prestoff known as Yahir Jones in with an edgy crowd, I don't know. But I am interested in hearing your thoughts on what I've said.

Stuff

Alright. I'll start off with acknowledging here that maybe the situation with the piano being the cause of the blackouts. I was told that you were responsible for it IC, and took that at face value. Whether you are misleading me here or not, I am not sure. I don't recall a power event announcement happening, and they don't usually cause multiple blackouts that go in and out, hence the term 'rolling blackouts'

But I'll take this potentially questionable explanation at face value here, to address the two other issues.

First, the comms.

-I warned about continuing the conversation several times over the common channel. It was either everyone's collective lack of awareness that they were being warned by me or deliberate ignoring of the warnings that caused me to use a much firmer station announcement. It is not my responsibility if you become so absorbed in your conversation you don't notice people telling you to stop.

-The common channel is a privilege, not a right or requirement to function on the station. If your character disagrees with that IC, that's one thing. You appear to disagree with it OOC though, and I have to take exception with that. You have a vast array of other methods you can use to keep yourself safe in the five minutes or so I would have turned off the common channel, such as:

--Turning on your suit sensors

--Using your department channel to ask the AI for help

--Using your PDA

So, telling me that you would be moderately inconvenienced for the several minutes I would have turned off the common channel is reason enough to violate an injunction a head set up is baffling. You're right, edgelord is definitely the wrong word to use. I'm going to revise that to self-indulgent.

Which brings me to the second point. The piano (Minimoog, in-game, even though everyone calls it a piano still)

-I want you to think about what you actually did here, without only considering the mechanical aspects of it. You dragged a minimoog all the way across the station, disregarded the numerous safety ordinances involved in opening up the supermatter chamber for what was certainly not an emergency, and shoved it into this dangerous death crystal that could literally kill your character so quickly and completely that no one would have ever been able to clone you. Had there been any kind of pressure differential that caused Jones to be shoved into the supermatter, they would have died. If Jones had somehow slipped or gotten a hand too close to it, they would have also died. Had there been anyone in your department in a supervisory position, they probably would have fired you for this.

Did spending your time on this actually accomplish any purpose in character, or was the challenge entirely based on your OOC desire to self-indulge your desire to destroy the minimoog in what probably seemed like an incredibly hilarious way to you, at the time?

You tell me the situation was harmless and didn't actually end up inconveniencing anyone, but if you continue this trend of pressing against the forth wall to perform memey acts while disregarding how actually dangerous what you're doing is from an IC standpoint, where are you going to end up eventually? Are you going to end up ramming a wheelchair into a head of staff because you wanted to play with fire extinguishers? I guarantee you they aren't going to find it even remotely as amusing as you do. What if the next time you open the supermatter to throw something in, it ends up delaminating and/or flooding the engine room with hot phoron fires?

There's a line between having fun and just doing whatever you feel like because you think, out of character, it would be really funny to do it. I would just like you to actually think about what you decide to do with your character, and if it would have repercussions IC during a normal workplace.

Oh shit. I should definitely be present for this. I was the warden this round.

It was a chaotic and hectic round in which we were dealing with a lot of greytide. I believe we had 3 suicides in total in the permabrig (somehow this was my fault according to most of sec despite me ordering multiple times for them to straight jacket the prisoners instead of healing them and setting them loose again, but thats neither here nor there), and Yahir and Jaylee thugging it up did not help. Jaylee was attacked by the chef with a vampire ability, and she broke a bottle on his head and tried to light him on fire. I believe he used a kitchen knife and a shard of glass from the broken bottle later to attack.

Either way, neither side won, but Jaylee ran to sec around the time the chef did and started saying things like

"Pfft.. ive still got pieces of that little BITCH on my bottle... heh..." and edgy stuff like that. For that reason, we (the hos and I who processed the very compliant and scared chef) OBVIOUSLY took Jaylee for the offender and let the chef off. Numerous officers threatened to arrest us for having a "vendetta", and were very persistent in saying that Jaylee had done nothing (I presume this was because they were IC friends). Zaun was brigged and the chef was put in shortly after when we had evidence of his involvement in the attack.

Anyways the chef stayed out of trouble for a very long time. Zaun was let out too, until Radic came to the brig screaming that Yahir was destroying his precious piano. Yahir at the time was bragging over comms about it, and Radic said Jaylee told him to. We put out an arrest warrant for them both to brig Yahir and question Jaylee. All of our officers in this round, no offense, were worthless cliquey bitches, and I was sent personally to handle it due to a lack of compliant or competent officers. I went to the bar, presented Zaun with the warrant, and she essentially told me "Fuck no." And closed the privacy shutters in my face. I drew my stun gun and moved around the window to see Jaylee readying her shotgun. I called for backup, and Radic ran to my aid. We broke in through a windoe, I believe, to catch her before she closed the back door and properly mounted a defense against us. Once in, we rushed her, got the shotgun from her, and she refused to stop sprinting away the entire way from the back room to the entrance of the bar where the AI had pre-emptively bolted the doors preventing her from sparking a manhunt. The entire way to the brig she said we were killers over the radio like a clown or a bald would and just asked people to break her out while Yahir attempted to break into the processing room to free Zaun while she was being questioned. At one point the HOS was attacked by Ashley Jaeger who tried to kill him with a baton and Zaun beelined for the exit, shouting for one of her clique friends to remove her cuffs. I stopped this, immediately. I threw Zaun in for a long while and the entire time she never really broke out of that attitude of calling us fag cocksuckers every other word. She is a seriously verbose maniacal character and has a clique that attacks people if she is threatened. Its really not high rp stuff I must say. Maybe if the character had some morals or honestly just a better hairstyle and attitude they'd seem like less of a flaming bull-d*ke. But as it stands we have to arm officers with firearms when responding to her because usually her first instinct is to close the shutters and run for her gun. Super annoying.

That said I also could have done a bit better this round. But Jaylee and Yahir REALLY tried my patience while I was trying to deal with all the other chaos.

It seemed like a very hectic round where emotions ran quite hot. Though I feel that a good portion of this could've been handled IC'ly as is the responsibility of member of staff responsible of the security of the station.

There are also in-character tools with dealing some of these aspects in the form of Incident Reports.

The only thing I feel would warrant OOC intervention at this time are the Engineering shenanigans, while we don't entirely forbid shenanigans there are times and places for it.

Alright, I'm going to go ahead and declare this as resolved.

Most if not all things I feel should've been dealt from an in-character perspective, be it on station or in the form of an incident reports.

The only thing I do feel that requires a talking to would be the super-matter thing, which while we don't specifically forbid shenanigans there are times and places for them, a talk detailing when it's acceptable will be done with Kyres. I'm going to leave this open for another 24 hours in case anything of note is added.

No further comment. We all have hectic rounds.

Locking and archiving.

Considered resolved.