Player Complaint - Eab549

BYOND Key: Butterrobber202

Game ID: bTj-c1xY

Player Byond Key: Eab549

Staff involved: Alberyk

Reason for complaint: I was a Malf AI doing a big Glorish Omega gimmick to get everyone involved, giving the crew MASSIVE tips about what was happening, including announcements and some alerts on common. During the Climax of my gimmick, I said something along the lines of, "Organic Overload was the cause of the last failure, preventing Failure." And Activated the Nuke. Then CE Ayden, went EVA outside of Command (Main Level) and walked to the exact spot the AI Core is located under and proceed to throw metal rods and floor tiles at me until I died. Resulting in the end of my life and the gimmick in literally under a minute. My problems stem from the fact:

1.) The Crew was RPing and creating a massive resistance effort to storm my core.

2.) He meta-gamed my exact location on the map and dropped basically insta-kill metal rods on me.

3.) He did it without anyone else's help and just solo'd the main antag of the round.

Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? Yes, alberyk said it was technically valid since the CE 'works' on these things and would know where everything to the letter.

Approximate Date/Time: 3:09 PM/March 10

Well in response to the three points.

1. i had no way of knowing because tcomms lost power and i was unable to coordinate with the rest of them, i was also in CCIAA during a large potion of the round and could not see any form of RP, just looked like an AI who stealthed to delta level and hit the blow stuff up button.

2. I infact did not land on the exact spot and was about 1 tile off the first time, then got the right spot to drop things on your core, That being said as a CE who has done multiple canon rounds and used my Blueprints in my office i would have the exact spot the core is committed to memory much like all the other important parts of the station.

3. The captain one, Paul Jonson enlisted my help specifically for the attempt to card the AI with distorying it as a last resort, when i missed the core i saw multiple self distruct attempts made and proceeded to then terminate the threat trying to kill us all, named glorish the AI who is part of the skrell lore who killed alot of people, i also had the team with a GPS in the core to help line up my location aswell IC and i informed them of my intentions prior to my assault on the core.

Well in response to the three points.

1. i had no way of knowing because tcomms lost power and i was unable to coordinate with the rest of them, i was also in CCIAA during a large potion of the round and could not see any form of RP, just looked like an AI who stealthed to delta level and hit the blow stuff up button.

2. snip

3. snip (cont.) named glorish the AI who is part of the skrell lore who killed alot of people, i also had the team with a GPS in the core to help line up my location aswell IC and i informed them of my intentions prior to my assault on the core.

ok, so you were able to coordinate with your engineering team, but unable to get a radio to talk on common or even the command channel?

And what does a Human have any reason to know Skrellian lore that Skrell likley don't want to talk about.

And finally, if you knew you had been cut off from RP for MOST of the round, why didn't you try a check if any had occurred before hunting me down? And, I made (fake) CT announcements that are global, so you would have heard them anyway.

Also, you would have seen by the load intercomm announcements that the blow up stuff button got negated by the captain.

Coalf and I are handling this complaint, we've discussed this, even with other staff members, and we've checked the logs.

1) There was a complete lack of cooperation between you and the department, partly due to T-comms failure, but also due to you making no effort to get in contact with them via a station bound radio or what not, we've checked the logs, and we've only found you looking for the captain, asking for a GPS, and then finally telling engineering to "go down" while you "see what you can do from above".

As a head of staff you're expected to lead the department, not the charge. You've left the engineering team in the dark and made no effort to inform them of your plans other than you will be going from "above" which is very vague to say the least, You took the most direct route to kill the AI, while leaving behind any roleplay with the crew that could've been had.

2) On the subject of the AI's roof, it's been deemed plausible for a CE to find the spot, though we are still discussing it. Attacking from the roof should be a last resort once all options were exhausted, which brings us to the third point.

3) It appears you made no attempt at carding the AI as the captain requested, nor reseting it's laws. triggering delta is not a reason to rush for killing them, in fact reseting their laws could be a better option if it was not attempted

i also had the team with a GPS in the core to help line up my location aswell IC and i informed them of my intentions prior to my assault on the core.

This is everything you've said since the start of the AI's Issue until they died.

You've managed to meet up with engineering, but I do not see where you've coordinated a plan to line up GPS coords.

or inform them that you will be breaking into the core to destroy it, you only every mentioned a vague "above".

Security, engineering and even medical were working together to breach into the core, you simply gave their efforts the middle finger and used the cheesiest tactic available.

And what does a Human have any reason to know Skrellian lore that Skrell likley don't want to talk about.

If people aren't supposed to know about Glorsh how was your gimmick supposed to work?

[mention]DatBerry[/mention] there was a skrell onboard (The CMO) who I'd hoped would tell everyone. And I think Riq mentioned that he said it was cool I gave him a reason to tell everyone Skrellian Lore.

EDIT: but, I guess I can elaborate on this more. Even if humans didn’t know the lore, the players might have. I was trying to build up an OH SHIT moment among the crew. Even if their characters were clueless I could still entertain the players behind them. That was my goal with that gimmick

ill just start from my side as soon as i finished my CCIAA thing, i came on station escorted by the CCIAA and happened to meet up with the captain near the hops office, i decided to RP a little with him when E-ERT shows up, tells us we should start the tesla for power. at this point i interjected as i know that the tesla is very dangerous to start without a primary power source for its containment, something that likely would have killed the AI and anyone else on the sub level without rp aswell i might add. The Captain asked if i was an engineer and i replyed i am a Chief engineer who was just here for CCIAA and getting a new arm, after the last canon round broke it, the captain requested my assistance after i was fit for duty. While i was getting my arm replaced tcomms dropped due to power loss, at this point i got the arm attached and let the captain know i was ok to go, and checked to see if he needed me, the AI then announced that it was Glorish and the captain informed me of what this ai had done to a planet, ok threat is there i can see this will likly not end well. I was then drafted into service for the captain as a Chief engineer and proceeded to get my stuff, after i might add the engineering had ignored me prior to this when i went to them while looking for the captain, anyway i could not find a tool belt in engineering and only saw one engineer whom i spoke to breifly and moved on to the bridge to deal with the AI after giving an engineer the card form tech storage. As i arrived me and two officer went down to the AI upload and i turned off the turrets only to discover that CE apparently cant access AI upload, so due to lack of tools aside from a RCD on the rig i turned around and went back up to see the captain and let them know whats going on due once again to lack of tcomms, he was missing from his office and when i went EVA to go start dealing with the AI from the top i did not see him in his office at all. After i pinpointed the what i thought was the correct spot via GPS i dug down to the platting and prepared to head back in when i see "Selfdistruct Activated" having no idea how long this takes or that it can even be disarmed i proceeded to RCD some walls up to prevent mass airloss and made a hole in the AI ceiling missing it. before i could thruster down into the core and attempt a carding the AI spammed selfdistruct attempts so i moved one tile and repeated, assuming that the lower breach team had made it into the core and was fighting it. At this point i saw the AI was still active so i started chucking rods down into its core aswell as floor tiles, headed back inside to check the breach team only to find they were still in the first room with lethal lasers on the other side waiting for them, so i let them know it was dead for their own safety, after this i located the captain and informed him and returned the rig after being returned to visitor status and on my way out to cyroing the server reset.

TLDR version, I will say that what i did was pretty cheesey for killing the AI, but i personally dont beleave that it was as much of an issue as its being made to be, i see it as AI called lethal on the entire station once that selfdistruct was triggered as i never have had much interaction with the nuke how would i know that the thing takes 15 minutes ooc or IC.

Did you consider taking your RCD and demattering the door to the AI core. And if you only had the RCD how’d you conjure up those metal rods you tossed down the hole.

I was then drafted into service for the captain as a Chief engineer and proceeded to get my stuff, after i might add the engineering had ignored me prior to this when i went to them while looking for the captain, anyway i could not find a tool belt in engineering and only saw one engineer whom i spoke to breifly and moved on to the bridge to deal with the AI after giving an engineer the card form tech storage.

This may be aside the point of Butter's complaint, but as the CCIA team member who was involved with this, I do have a question.

Ayden was in that round as a visitor for the purpose of the interview. What happened to cause this complaint should not have been possible, since players who join as a visitor are disallowed from taking command roles both from a IC perspective in the form of Directive 9, and an OOC perspective in the form of the admin policy that prevents visitors from assuming command roles. Did you go to cryo and respawn as CE to take the job slot or something? There's no other way that Ayden should have been placed in this situation.

[mention]Butterrobber202[/mention] i did infact thing about RCDing the door but i dislike bieng shot in the face by turrets the AI may turn back on and having no way to pull back without a lethal laser in the chest, this is more reinforced by the fact that when i went down there a second time your outer turrets were on and lethal. o and the metal rods were RCD walls i cut down and remade due to the suit basicly producing metal on demand for power.

[mention]Synnono[/mention] you are indeed correct i should never have been in the situation the captain asked me to before i could even get to cyro, he just took my ID and changed it, for more information on his actions you would need to consult arrow, but i did tell him to fax CC about it so i was infact a visitor.

[mention]Arrow768[/mention]

Visitors may not be reassigned to station roles, unless its an emergency.

A SM delamination that wiped out 50% of the engineering crew and a AI that announced its Glorsh is such an emergency.

With previous announcements that AI systems all over the sector were merging and taking over control.

The primary objective is to keep the station intact and the crew alive.

At that point it doesnt matter what job title someone has/had.

Its either live or die.

If there is a person on the station that is able to lead their department and card or destroy the AI, then I will recruit them for the time of the emergency.

After the AI has been disabled, the CE I recruited has been restored to the visitor position again.

Regarding that this specific part of the directives is a OOC policy aswell: I was not aware of it, as it is not listed on the server rules.

Regarding the notion that the Skrell could keep their genocide a secret:

I have never seen a mention anywhere that only Skrell can know about Glorsh.

Saying that they kept it a secret is like saying that the Armenian´s or the Jews kept the genocide of their ethnic groups a secret.

You can not keep a event like that a secret.

Its also listed as Noteable Synthetic

[mention]Arrow768[/mention] yes, I was saying skrell probably don’t bring it up in conversation. Not that anyone but them would know it.

Arrow768 yes, I was saying skrell probably don’t bring it up in conversation. Not that anyone but them would know it.

That's really not the case. While they may not bring it up on a personal level, it's still history, history they've tried to teach the Humans when it comes to artificial intelligences.

Arrow768 yes, I was saying skrell probably don’t bring it up in conversation. Not that anyone but them would know it.

 

That's really not the case. While they may not bring it up on a personal level, it's still history, history they've tried to teach the Humans when it comes to artificial intelligences.

fair point.

I was Korom Bhararaya (janitor) that round, and I have to speak in Eab's defense at least on one significant point of contention: the claim that he didn't communicate well with the engineering team.

I witnessed firsthand that Ayden DID attempt to rendezvous with the whole engineering department while they (a lot of us) were repairing the engineering wing post-SM delamination. I don't recall what he said, but I do remember he was attempting to act in the capacity of a Chief Engineer, meeting up with his team. However, I only saw that he was a visitor - so when he told me that the captain had appointed him as the CE, I was completely unconvinced (since I didn't know about the situation with the AI, and the SM emergency seemed to be taken care of). I manually closed the (unpowered) doors to the engineering wing between Ayden and myself (and the rest of his team) to suggest that we shouldn't allow him to assert his authority. And so he left.

To me, it came down to the fact that I couldn't verify his claim, so it seemed negligent to take his word. But in retrospect, it's clear that the choice I made prevented Ayden from fulfilling the duties of the role he had honestly been appointed. Do I think dumping a bunch of metal garbage from the sky is a dumb and boring way to shut down a game? Yes. And that he should have attempted to follow the captain's orders instead of playing hero. But let the record show that he definitely attempted to play nice before it came to that.

First off, we agreed that while promoting people into head position when they're visitors is not allowed, I think under these extremely emergency circumstances we can let it pass.

The delamination and AI going haywire, which in itself is unheard of as AI's have laws, something like this is an extreme thing even if it wasn't glorsh, warrants the change.

Second, we didn't find an issue with Ayden communicating with engineering during the time Bauser pointed at, we found an issue with these things:

1: Ayden was in bridge, with other players who were most likely either security or engineering, the dialogue proves this.

2: The dialogue of him saying "He doesn't want this engineering borg down here" and "Get out of the elevator" proves that he was in the elevator area and with other people.

3: He quite literally says, multiple times, that "They should go down while he sees what he can do up here", this is done AFTER he received a GPS from someone.

All of this indicates Ead HAD a plan, he KNEW where to go and yet still he REFUSED to communicate with other members of the raid, leaving them to risk their lives for a pointless cause while he goes pepper the AI with rods from the above.

[mention]Coalf[/mention] To your points

1 i was in the bridge quite a bit, sec was present and seemingly super confused as to what to do, the captain was somewhere in his office whom i was trying to get the plan of action with.

2 the borg was engineering and when i saw it it was a sec borg, considering it was being called down to the core i told them to watch out for it while letting people in the elevator.

3 i indeed have a plan to kill an AI oocly and i did not get a GPS i refused it i took one from the locker in the CE room, i had basically no way to see any form of communication with the assault team, once again i was assuming that when the self distruct triggered i was assuming they were fighting inside it wasnt til after i rod dropped the AI that i even went down to see no damage to the core at all with my jet pack.

Once again i realize that i cheesed the AI in this instance, that we all agree on. could i have communicated better? sure i could have, i had an entire plan for not murdering the AI straight away unfortunately when i see self distruct on a server ive not seen ti really used or seen it disarmed im going to kill the AI as soon as possable. i admit wrong in it but i will say im not sorry for saving the station or the people who were about to be put in harms way of the lethal turrets when they entered the core.

It seems you don't get what exactly we have an issue with here, put simply:

Your lack of teamwork and leadership, which is crucial for a head of staff, which lead to the other issue of going after the antag and securing the kill on your own.

1 i was in the bridge quite a bit, sec was present and seemingly super confused as to what to do, the captain was somewhere in his office whom i was trying to get the plan of action with.

They were super confused, if only they had a leader figure who could've given them orders. Why did you only intend to share your plan with the captain? is engineering and security not worthy?

Engineering crew is supposed to be your arms and legs, they should've digged the hole into the roof, they should've been throwing the meme rods down on the AI, You played the CE role as a super engineer with a rigsuit, all the powers with non of the responsibilities, and to make matters worse you don't seem to understand this.

[mention]DatBerry[/mention] As i have said before i was a visitor not a head of staff except for the time the captain promoted me and prior to that as korom has pointed out engineering literally closed a door in my face and i could not find anything on short notice, the only engineer that showed up on the bridge was one with no emitter who had issues with a secure door. I know what a CE needs to do as it stands i was a visitor for the express purpose of a CCIAA meeting, had i been CE i would have had control of my engineers the engine wouldnt have exploded and the RP would have been better. in a sec situation aswell as a CE with no apparent access to AI upload or any form of tools besides an RCD and a rig i was of no help down there in the core, as far as i knew the Captain was the one who was coordinating and the only engineer i saw was hacking doors meaning it left jsut me to dig the hole i was intending to use as a last resort. Yes i didnt do it perfectly and i accept that but hanging this over my head as "You didnt act like a ce" is because i was not a CE at the time simply was given the access to deal with the impending threat.

[mention]eab549[/mention] You seemed to be under the impression that I made this complaint because you saved the station. Which is not the case. I have noooo problem with you saving the station. But understand I was trying to craft a story, and a CE dropping metal sticks on me doesn’t make for a good ending to the round. A united crew attacking my core in a desperate attempt to save their lives and defeat a great evil? It makes a wonderfully more entertaining story.

[mention]Butterrobber202[/mention] as ive said before it was not my intent to lol rekt your story, i have valid hunted very little on this server compared to what i could have done, as it stands i was under the impression that you had ninjaed to delta and then proclaimed yourself a planet killing AI, as far as i was aware i had no engineering support aside from a single one that was hacking the doors in the core. i assume engineers should have breached that before i even got outside the station, i have always handled malfs in a way of "Have a main assault and a back up plan." I was attempting to be the back up plan and seeing a SD alert i assumed main assault had failed.

Sorry if i ruined your story you were creating yes it would have been cool, if the SM not blown, if the janitor had not shut a door in my face prior to promotion, if i could have found a damn station bounced radio, if the engineer in your upload was able to hack faster. As i see it, it was ether go from top or side and the side would have been just as fast, only would have interacted with people more.

Alright I think we can declare this resolved.

Me and [mention]DatBerry[/mention] have come to a consensus regarding this.

1: A janitor, the person one step higher on the ladder than an assistant closing the door in your face in a passive-agressive manner does not warrant you just giving up on commanding them, this is extremely small resolve for a Chief Engineer character.

Going to CE from visitor is extremely iffy but with your behaviour you were just an engineer with a little bit more access. The only commands you ever gave was people to go down and breach the AI from the front while you cheese it from the top.

You didn't try to command.

2: Station bounced radios are not an issue to get, fuck the walls are lined with radios, PDA's, newscasters, using your lisps to ask "Where are the engineers?" or "Have you seen the other engineers?".

You didn't try to communicate.

3: Something I noticed all over your posts and that is the phrase "Assumed".

You assumed the team failed, you assumed it was delta, you assumed people didn't want you to command, you assumed and assumed and assumed.

Don't assume, not only did you assume wrong but your wide assumptions ruined the round of another player and basically cockblocked an entire team that took the time and effort to breach through the front from all action with one of the cheesiest strats to ever be witnessed.

You didn't try to inform yourself.

My issue is you play CE regularly and have recently whitelisted for it, I would have understood if you didn't have much experience with it but you play this role exclusively. This gives me quite the big think about your position.

After all is said and done, you'll be given a warning and I'll ask you to actually gather information before taking the easiest way to something and basically walking over every other players.

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