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[Resolved] Staff Complaint: TomiixStarSlasher, NursieKitty, Alberyk


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BYOND Key: XanderDox

Staff BYOND Key: [mention]nursiekitty[/mention] , [mention]Alberyk[/mention] , TomiixStarSlasher ( [mention]Tomiix[/mention] )

Game ID: bSo-ap4a

Reason for complaint:


For Nursie and Alberky, failure to properly do their job as an admin to supervise and assist a trial moderator in their job, and failing to properly ensure an investigation was done correct before a 'Severe' level warning is handed out - as long time admins, I expect better of both of them, and not for them to use the 'complaint forum' cop-out.


For TomiixStarSlasher, this complaint is targeting their utter failure to write a warning even somewhat matching the incident that occurred, and failure to properly investigate an incident or understand how command and security work.


Evidence/logs/etc:


Warning Text:

 

d99c616a29.png

 

Additional remarks:


So, someone announced they had the captain hostage in their office, great, I am armed and run to respond (we armed up due to rogue synths). Ellie Shoshanna lets me in, however, she walks into the Captain's office staring down the armed intruder literally facing her, and tries to begin a casual conversation. I use pull and drag her back a bit, she again, proceeds to move back into the office.


My Head of Security, Jane Pyre, arrives with the rest of security. She orders myself and a Unathi Officer to restrain Shoshanna, because she's a rogue element in a bad situation, so we flash her down, ONE FLASH, and restrain her with cuffs, and buckle her to a chair.


Next, I PDA the Captain who is being held in their bedroom while the hostage-taker stares us down from the captain's desk. The Captain tells me she is hiding in her bathroom. I look over, and realize we have three laser weapons here, and only one wall separates us from the Captain. Ellie is sitting there cuffed, so I take her ID to open the first door into the bridge's command center, and then immediately drop it - the other officer picks it up. I begin lasering the wall down, once I run out, I get the other members of sec to use theirs, and my idea ends up saving the captain.


Security then moves in to detain the hostage taker - NOTE, I HAD NO PART IN THIS, I DID NOT ONCE TOUCH DAKOTA WITH ANY WEAPON - LASER OR OTHERWISE, AND I NEVER REMOVED A WEAPON FROM ELLIE SHOSHANNA. Now, a security cyborg walks into the bridge, says hello, and begins firing on the newly rescued captain with a laser cannon, I react slowly as I had tabbed out, but I manage to absorb a single shot for the captain, as Im getting shot, Ellie is somehow unrestrained, grabs the captain and starts booking it - I do not know at this time if she is grabbing or pulling because my screen was full of red text from the captain and myself getting shot. The Borg gets ion'd and goes down, Ellie continues running - the opposite way to the exit of the bridge. My first reaction to the captain being pulled away in this manner is to stop it and keep her still until a medic can arrive, you don't sprint with an injured person, so I sprint after , and pick up the captain's telebaton on my way, a second later, I baton Ellie's leg once, drop the telebaton immediately, and grab the captain and call her a medic, who arrives in seconds - from the OPPOSITE direction of where Ellie was pulling the Captain.


This is what happened. Idk what the frickity frack Tomix thought went on, but I do not think he can be a good mod if he cannot ask a few security what happened and only relies on the testimony of one person.


Other Stuff


I want to point something out here - HoP and Captain are two important people, equally who should not be entering active combat or dangerous situations - I've messed up on this (as I'll show), however - it is incredibly disheartening when a player involved in the situation above, does the same thing, and does not a get a warning.

 

0c1abf21e4.png Here is a photo of an older warning of mine. Sound familiar? That's because Ellie rushed into the captain's office, where an armed person with a weapon IN HAND ON LETHALS was staring her down, and refused to leave when asked by Security. She, as far as I am aware, did not get warned for this - despite it being something Tomix should have seen in their investigation. So, I believe that Resilynn should be given a warning for the stunt she pulled here, just as I have been before - Captains and HoPs should be played defensively except in absolute hell-situations.

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I'll add: I was not overly helpful in this, I did not want to discuss the incident via ahelps because I was still in an active security situation and bwoinks make me crash,BUT, I still sent a response detailing exactly what happened and that we had orders (although I dont think Jane Pyre was ever consulted by Tomix) , 5-10 minutes later, Tomix boops me again and asks again, to discuss the incident, I tell them no. I did this because I have already told them everything there was to say, and there was no point in repeating myself. Yes I did swear, no I did not swear at them, I swore in the context of the conversation at how ridiculous the incident was, it was not meant as a verbal assault towards them. Just to clarify, I like Tomix a lot as a player.

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the HOS was not Jane Pyre, it was Sophia(e?) Rifler. wrong redhead.


I was the CMO this round and I was pretty adamant in saying that it was pretty damn stupid for the HOS to order a head of staff be mugged of their ID just so that the officer can get into an area where the captain was being assaulted. Pretty fucking stupid escalation there and pretty bad common sense exercised on the end of the officer to not get what a stupid order sounds like.

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the HOS was not Jane Pyre, it was Sophia(e?) Rifler. wrong redhead.


I was the CMO this round and I was pretty adamant in saying that it was pretty damn stupid for the HOS to order a head of staff be mugged of their ID just so that the officer can get into an area where the captain was being assaulted. Pretty fucking stupid escalation there and pretty bad common sense exercised on the end of the officer to not get what a stupid order sounds like.

 

The Captain was not in the same area as the criminal. The criminal was in the office with Rifler/Pyre whoever the fuck it was. She had them distracted. She ordered us to flash Ellie because Ellie ran into a hostage situation on her own to face down an armed gunman.


Take her ID was my idea, I opened one door, the door to the central bridge area (where there was no situation) so we could get the captain out of the bathroom. Ellie was actively trying to impede security from handling a hostage situation. The criminal did not know what we were doing, because they were distracted by the HoS negotiating with them. The Captain was NOT restrained, the Captain still had their weapons out, and was hiding, she was a hostage only because she was cornered, she was not captured. Ellie's ID being taken was not ordered, and the ID was meant to be returned immedaitely after I opened the door once (why I literally dropped the ID)

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I've painted a picture for the start of the incident, when it was just Ellie, me and the criminal in the office, and the captain in the bathroom.

 

d85f306389.jpg


Ellie is in gold, I drag her back. She continues to go back in. The criminal, in red, is HOLDING a carbine that is on lethal mode.


Head of Security arrives with Unathi officer:

 

6622c85f2e.jpg


HoS orders us to restrain Ellie, for her SAFETY. I flash her down, the unathi cuffs her and drags her out, and buckles her to the chair. This is the situation now:

 

9fe2d02ad1.jpg


I take Ellies ID card off, and enter the small room between the bridge and bridge hall and then drop the ID immediately, it is picked up by the Unathi. I begin opening fire on the wall, two other officers arrive, and I tell them to do the same after I run out,

 

18e767d2aa.jpg

 

The criminal has NO idea what is happening (thus, the question mark). They are not near the captain. The wall falls, the captain runs out.

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Hey there Azande! I am sorry that you have a complaint, I will be responding to this complaint as the primary trial moderator who was asked to investigate this incident. This is my first complaint (and first investigation), so pardon rough edges in my response as I detail to you the problematic issues that came up that we as a team discussed. Because although it was me and you who talked primarily in admin pm's, we had a rather long conversation during the investigation process, which caused the delay at the end of the round as well.


I will address your concerns point by point, with what I could recover from the logs, in the scope of trying to alleviate your main complaint, which you list as "For TomiixStarSlasher, this complaint is targeting their utter failure to write a warning even somewhat matching the incident that occurred, and failure to properly investigate an incident or understand how command and security work."


So let's get right into it.


Going to the situation, where your Head of Security notes that Ellie is in danger, and orders you to get her out. I found that flashing her and moving her was appropriate, reasonable, and believable. As you were removing her from immediate harm. I was unable to during the round find any indication that you were ordered by your Head of Security to detain Shoshanna. As when I had asked both the warden and the head of security if they had, they claimed they did not. Now that I have the full log and I am actually able to search it I can see you were ordered to detain her. We have a persistent issue with security thinking that it has domain over command members, and I apologize for not bringing this under consideration. It was me still being rusty with checking a increasingly frustrating chat tool. I am not going to say that a Head of Personnel had any business attempting a hostage negotiation. However this is not the forum to speculate her behavior, more so how you handled it in response. A major part of this warning was you acting outside of your jurisdiction and without any proper orders before detaining a command level staff member, and then stealing property from her to gain access to an area you should not of had access to to confront an antagonist. This new information alone is enough in my opinion to lower the severity of the warning. I missed the needle in the haystack as it were.


This was not helped by as you admitted by yourself, sarcastic and toxic responses to my questions.


[03:34:59] bSo-ap4a ADMIN: PM: TomiixStarslasher/(Azala Huz'kai)->XanderDox/(Klaus Eliade): Hey there, can you explain why as a non-antagonist you are attacking a head and stealing their ID?

[03:35:36] bSo-ap4a ADMIN: PM: XanderDox/(Klaus Eliade)->TomiixStarslasher/(Azala Huz'kai): I took her ID once, then dropped it, we were ordered to detain her because she was walking into an armed hostage situation like a dumb bitch. I took her ID to open one bridge door so I could break the captain out to safety.

[03:37:01] bSo-ap4a ADMIN: PM: TomiixStarslasher/(Azala Huz'kai)->XanderDox/(Klaus Eliade): Can you tell me who gave you this order?

[03:37:26] bSo-ap4a ADMIN: PM: XanderDox/(Klaus Eliade)->TomiixStarslasher/(Azala Huz'kai): Who do you THINK. My head of staff obviously. The decision to save the captain with her ID however was mine.


I was not going to argue semantics with you during an investigation, but I want to let you know now that 'Can you tell me who gave you this order' is a valid one when you have two command level people who can give you orders on the station, and it was also possible that an antagonist had ordered you to do something, and some other roleplay that I was not aware of occured. Especially when I wasn't watching the conflict play out, and your information can help me more accurately find what I need in the logs. The sarcasm was not necessary. I was prepared to have a decent sized conversation where I attempted to collect your side of the story, and that may not of led to this confusion at all, but you made it clear you weren't interested.


[03:54:09] bSo-ap4a ADMIN: PM: TomiixStarslasher/(Azala Huz'kai)->XanderDox/(Klaus Eliade): Hey, mind if we talk a bit about the incident with Shoshanna?

[03:54:23] bSo-ap4a ADMIN: PM: XanderDox/(Klaus Eliade)->TomiixStarslasher/(Azala Huz'kai): considering I was not in the wrong at all and talking with admins via ahelp crashes me, yes..


This, followed by other concerning behavior during the round lead me to give the warning that I did. I will get back to that concerning behavior in a moment. The warning was edited by myself to fix inaccuracies, including the fact that you didn't take the telescopic baton from Shoshanna.


Now that I am able to take into account your side of the story, and have access to the logs that I have, I can agree that your escalation of force was warranted up until the point where you batoned Shoshanna. Unless you can provide clearer thought process into what you thought was going on in that moment. Attacking a department head without being ordered to is a big no-no, and should not be done so casually, especially when you are not an antagonist. Realistically, if you see someone who is superior to you carrying away your leader, would the first appropriate reaction be to attack and restrain them? Security does not have jurisdiction over command members. This is something that could of been resolved in much better ways, but instead you forced the issue with what other moderators who were paying attention at this point considered an unrealistic escalation. If more experienced moderators or admins would like to chime in on if they feel this is appropriate or not, they may do so.


During this round, both yourself and Shoshanna had also taken part of behavior that also is against regulations for characters in game, that being the promotion of a visitor to a command/security role during a non station critical emergency. Why this exchange occurred would also be something I would appreciate you clarifying, as you should not of been security during this round at all in the first place.


In summary, and a TL;DR of sorts, following the points of your complaint.


- The warning was NOT 100% accurate to the actual events that occured. I have already made efforts to edit it to be more accurate, however the main issue, the use of the telebaton is still in question.

- The incident was investigated to the best of my ability, human error simply caused me to miss a key single line of text that changes the severity of the warning. I apologise for this.

- I feel that my understanding of command and security policy is not in question here, more so yours. Please explain why you were security in the first place, and more reasoning behind your use of the telebaton against Shoshanna to make it seem like a reasonable escalation. If you are able to do so, and if other staff members agree, then I would have to agree with you, and have the warning removed.


I do not want you to think that Shoshanna is not being looked into, as I finish typing this I will be looking into the logs and the behaviour of Shoshanna during this incident as well, however will not further discuss the issues with her play, as this isn't the goal of this discussion. Moreso your warning and my treatment of it.

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I never confronted the antag, ever, only rescued the captain, I never laid a laser, hand, baton, or anything on the antag in the office, I did not even get to see them be detained.


I batonned Shoshanna because I panicked thinking she was pulling the captain, which would seriously open the wounds, I stopped at one baton for this reason - It was the quickest way to drop her and stop the dragging. I do not view this one incident, batonning a head of staff I believe to be endangering the *Captain* as worthy of a warning.


Another thing you're wrong about:


"During this round, both yourself and Shoshanna had also taken part of behavior that also is against regulations for characters in game, that being the promotion of a visitor to a command/security role during a non station critical emergency. Why this exchange occurred would also be something I would appreciate you clarifying, as you should not of been security during this round at all in the first place."


I was an assistant, not a visitor, transferring was fair game, I did not ask for it, she offered it.


[mention]Tomiix[/mention]

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Also I apologize for swearing, you know I like you a lot (I included you in the NTWA for a reason) and did not mean to attack you or hurt your feelings, I was extremely upset with the situation, and would accept a warning for the behaviour I exhibited in ahelps with you, but not for the incident that happened in character.

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Oh, and I did not DETAIN her or FLASH her until the order was given. I only used pull to try and move her back for her safety at first.


I would do the same to the Captain or CCIA. In an emergency, Security absolutely do have clout to clear the area of non-combat staff. This is just like how ERT guards will manhandle a CCIA in an emergency.

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There is no harm done, I did not take the response personally.


I am dropping the visitor thing, from everything I have access to I believe now that you were an assistant.


I will let the other moderators and administrators discuss and think about the use of force towards Shoshanna during that incident, but I find your reasoning sound enough, I personally have no issue dropping this warning now.


Thank you for complaining, it has already helped me tremendously.

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I was extremely upset with the situation, and would accept a warning for the behaviour I exhibited in ahelps with you, but not for the incident that happened in character.

 

Didn't i just warn you about this a month ago and isnt this what got you banned before? As far as the rest of this complaint is concerned this will probably be finalized by tomorrow.

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I was extremely upset with the situation, and would accept a warning for the behaviour I exhibited in ahelps with you, but not for the incident that happened in character.

 

Didn't i just warn you about this a month ago and isnt this what got you banned before?

 

Yes, and my anger however I do not believe, was misdirected, I was extremely upset to see the situation get misread so poorly and to have my round interrupted when I was genuinely enjoying it. Especially as I was essentially punished for stopping someone from doing something that I was warned for before.

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Yes, and my anger however I do not believe, was misdirected

 

I was extremely upset with the situation, and would accept a warning for the behaviour I exhibited in ahelps with you, but not for the incident that happened in character.

 

Help me understand this.

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I was angry, I do not believe being angry was wrong of me.


The expression of the anger however, is where the problem was, I was sassy and unhelpful in resolving the investigation into the issue, believing I had already stated everything clearly, and thinking that everything Tomiix needed was in front of his eyes to see, which it clearly was not.

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I was angry, I do not believe being angry was wrong of me.


The expression of the anger however, is where the problem was, I was sassy and unhelpful in resolving the investigation into the issue, believing I had already stated everything clearly, and thinking that everything Tomiix needed was in front of his eyes to see, which it clearly was not.

 

The point i am trying to make is that this is a formula you have repeated numerous times. We have pretty good documentation on it. You get upset over "a thing" and then you lash towards anyone in your vicinity. "Sassy and unhelpful" is just one facet of the conglomerate that is the issue with your attitude. I know you might think this is an albatross around your neck. When i continuously see behavior that got you permabanned TWICE i am forced to question my decision to unban you in the first place.


I really dont want to sound like an asshole but i need to be extremely honest. At best it seems you have only improved on the surface and when the situation gets tense you retreat back to your old ways. How many more times am i going to have to say this?

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Just to clarify in case anyone else had questions about the situation I was Sophie Rifler - Head of Security. I had only recently just come on and I hear about possible intruders, the AI being funky and so on - as well as seeing an unarmed and unprotected member of command sprint into the captains office with the armed hostage taker. I order my officers to 'cuff her and get her out of there' to remove her as quickly as possible... and personally I am happy as to the conduct of officer Eliade in general (guy making the admin complaint).


Due to the situation, I can understand why they battoned Ellie - preventing her dragging the heavily wounded captain away from the medical area and potentially causing further harm isn't exactly malicious from an OOC level. When situations like kidnappings take place in game tensions rise and people tend to make snap decisions like that. I feel like it should have been dealt with icly rather than staff intervention at any rate.


My ability to properly watch my staff was hindered somewhat by the CMO and HoP making snarky comments over the radio at me and acting like school children rather than professionals - as a side note.

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Admittedly I wasn't involved with the incident, but I was gonna throw in my opinion. Xander was kinda snarky, he shouldn't have been, sure. But I mean, seriously, the HoP, who in my opinion has a habit of doing this, charges into a hostage situation and that's considered fine, but removing her by force and taking an ID to save the Captain is enough for a warning? That ruling makes no sense, in my opinion. I'm uh, kinda tired, so if I missed any important details, my bad. (Also I blame Coalf if I do miss anything)

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I've done digging into the logs and I found there was a few lapses in the investigation resulting in this judgement. The warning is going to be expunged and I'll go over this topic with the trial in question to avoid future incidents of this. I personally found the detainment of the HoP done on reasonable grounds and the Officer conducting the detainment as best and as carefully as they could based on the round circumstances and information they had at the time.


As for the administrators cited, Alberyk was simply not present and it seems Nursie was also not wholly active during the incident itself based on the logs.


As for your conduct, you really should set aside the sass and the snark, there are times and places for it, adminpm's aren't one of them. I'm sure you're aware why this is being brought up.


Keeping this open for another 24 hours.

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