Jump to content

[Resolved] Staff Complaint: NoahKirchner


Recommended Posts

BYOND Key: driecg36

Staff BYOND Key: NoahKirchner

Game ID: bSq-aZWi

Reason for complaint: This is more so a complaint about the specific application of a rule rather than the staff member himself. I have a character, Pierre Leonce, who's main line of work is Head of Security. He has security training, experience, and that is his career. However, his hobby that he is the most passionate about is bartending. So, I thought it would be reasonable to have him occasionally work a shift as bartender, since he would get to spend some time with his coworkers, simply talking to them and doing something he likes.


However, Noah told me it wasn't acceptable to have him work as a bartender at all, as the pay gap is not only very large, but also that NT would want him working every possible shift as a Head of Security, since they were too important to work such a low-brow job (which is admittedly a good point).


Still, I disagree with him for the following reasons:

1) Leonce is not doing this instead of being a HoS, he is doing this on shifts where he would not have worked as a HoS anyways, therefore, NT would not care how he spent his time then, and would even rather have him work. I think it is no different than spending a shift as say, a visitor.

2) The pay does not matter, since he is not doing this for the money, but as a hobby. He would do it for free, but he might as well accept the money if it's offered to him.

3) Having enough knowledge and expertise of bartending to run a bar on top of a career is extremely reasonable, and not at all unbelievable. It would be more jarring, in my opinion, if he suddenly dropped his hobby or his main career because for some OOC reason he could not pursue both.

4) Bartending matters to this character, and this is the only way to express it in a way that isn't in a footnote in his employee folder. Additionally, I have played a full round of him as a bartender, and it was a great experience to talk with people he usually work with, but in a relaxed, stress free setting. This point isn't particularly convincing, but it's the main reason I'm making this report in the first place so I felt like I should include it.

 

In conclusion, I think there is nothing wrong with making this character take an occasional shift as bartender. It isn't unrealistic, it is not powergamey (since I avoid anything even remotely security related like the plague when I play bartender, and mixing drinks as a HoS isnt exactly powergamey either), it doesn't hamper anyone's enjoyment of the game (in fact, I had a great time with all the other off duty heads that shift). Thus, I think my character working as a bartender is perfectly reasonable interdepartmental knowledge, and breaks no rule.

Evidence/logs/etc: PM logs between me and Noah.

Additional remarks: Noah is a great guy, and I believe he should succeed his trial, regardless of the outcome of this report. He was simply applying the rules as he saw best.

Link to comment

I think that a lot of this comes down to the interpretation of the cross departmental knowledge rule and how difficult it is to learn to mix drinks on the side. I could go either way here, and to some degree I do like the idea of an HoS serving drinks to their fellow crewmembers. However, the jobs are very different and heads generally can't generally work with jobs outside of their purview.


That said, bartending is in an interesting position here. If you were playing an HoS who also worked in engineering, that's clearly within a breach of the rules because keeping a space station running requires a heck of a lot of schooling. But mixing drinks as a bartender is easily something that could've been picked up in college ICly, or however your character learned it, and so the character makes sense, strictly speaking. At the end of the day, it comes down to precedent, and I'd be happy with this being ruled in favor of Driecg and if precedent for future interdepartmental rule enforcement is made, all the better, but I (and msay) decided that it's odd to have a head staff, especially one that's loyalty implanted and as important as an HoS, also mixing drinks when they're on station and could be doing their primary job, even if the knowledge is feasible.

Link to comment

...I (and msay) decided that it's odd to have a head staff, especially one that's loyalty implanted and as important as an HoS, also mixing drinks when they're on station and could be doing their primary job, even if the knowledge is feasible.

 

This is the main point I have an argument with. I see heads spending time as visitors on station constantly, and theoretically, that argument should apply to them as well, no? They're taking a break from their job to just hang out on station with the people they know. Leonce isn't doing this instead of being a HoS, he's doing it when he wouldn't be working HoS anyways.

Link to comment

Posting here to inform you that I will be handling this complaint.


I can see both sides of the argument, though I am not a fan of high ranking individuals who come on board as visitors either, I will have to discuss this as it may end up changing the wording on the rules or having clarifications put up, or a change in policy all together.

Link to comment

Multiple head of staff characters, including those of admins, have joined as service roles. This has no grounds in rules or otherwise, as the last time I ahelped about this, I was told it was a non-issue.


Most specifically in my memory, [mention]nursiekitty[/mention] 's CMO Phoebe plays as a chef.

Link to comment

Multiple head of staff characters, including those of admins, have joined as service roles. This has no grounds in rules or otherwise, as the last time I ahelped about this, I was told it was a non-issue.


Most specifically in my memory, @nursiekitty 's CMO Phoebe plays as a chef.

 

When I convened with msay, I was told that this was not allowed because of the pay grade gap and all of the other arguments and what-not brought forth between our ahelps.

Link to comment

Posting here to inform you that I will be handling this complaint.


I can see both sides of the argument, though I am not a fan of high ranking individuals who come on board as visitors either, I will have to discuss this as it may end up changing the wording on the rules or having clarifications put up, or a change in policy all together.

 

I completely disagree with banning high ranking individuals coming on board as visitors, or other jobs, and that wasn't the point I was trying to make. These characters often don't have the time to really bond with anyone or talk with their coworkers, because they are constantly being pelted from all sides by work that needs to be done and issues that need to be solved.


Banning high ranking crew from entering other, more relaxed positions would place an undue burden on their RP, and effectively restrict them to being only their job on anything but the tamest extended shift. It would be harmful to gameplay and to RP, for very little reward.

Link to comment
  • 3 weeks later...

After a long discussion stemming from this thread, a more hardline decision has been made regarding this issue as a whole which can be seen here: https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=107&t=10337#p92400

1- People are permitted to play within the department to the extent in which they have the qualifications. A Head of Security to Warden is fine. Certain exceptions to the rules apply, such as an Officer going cadet due to lack of slots.


2- To be able to play a job outside the department, your character will need to have believable qualifications AND staff approval. Staff approval can be acquired by contacting a member of staff.

 

There was also some discussion regarding this specific case, and the vast majority of the staff team agreed to stick with Noah's original judgement, I'm afraid HoS-Bartender is remaining a no.


I'll leave this thread open for 24 more hours.

Link to comment
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...