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[Resolved] Staff Complaint - Nursie


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Byond Key: Lilium Argentium

Staff Byond Key: NursieKitty

Reason for Complaint: Toxicity and general badminning


Remarks: I am going to try to be nice about this, and not passive-aggressive, but I am warning you now, I may be such despite my efforts. Also note this is mainly an observation of Nursie towards everyone; not exclusively me. Nursie, I tried to respect you, I really did, I tried to be nice, I REALLY did. Unfortunately, my first personal experience with Nursie was her shitting on my character, an action which has since become the norm for almost everyone, which I do not think is helped by the validation of an admin who has a very large amount of power in the server. This is not about her criticizing my character though. From my short experience of merely a few months on the Aurora, Nursie does this to almost everyone. Any interaction I have seen between her and someone else is always toxic and angry, not to mention the times I have both heard about and witnessed her saying and doing things as her characters that are only threatening because WE KNOW she's an admin, (like threatening to IR people for wearing the standard female nurse's uniform, not cool.) All in all, I have never seen anyone have a pleasant OOC interaction with Nursie, nor have I myself. I understand being an Admin is stressful and comes with a lot of power, but really? It just doesn't seem appropriate to dump out whatever stress or toxicity just because you want to whether it is in IC or OOC. (I am sorry I seem to have no screenshots or anything, I always forget to take them when something actually happens).

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Quick Disclaimer, I'm not involved in the report in any way, but I'd like to state something shortly as a member of the CCIA team. I'd appreciate it if my post isn't deleted, I've asked Alb before posting this.


Incident Reports do not warrant punishments. They are to be considered much like modern day trials, where information is gathered, both sides are heard, and a verdict is made depending on the situation.


Incident Reports are not punishment, and are merely like player reports which are resolved in IC, canon events. A Head of Staff threatening to file an IR on a worker is perfectly acceptable, and wearing a nurse's dress while they've told someone not to, is a valid reason for an IR.


If you believe that a Head of Staff is abusing their powers, and that their decisions are irrational, you may ahelp it, or file an IR yourself on them.

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Now, don't take this as me invalidating your complaint, but a few things.


First. I don't think there's an issue with a character threatening administrative action in the form of IR's. They are a tool to further a narrative and showcase the importance of consistency in our setting. I also fully trust [mention]Synnono[/mention] to be impartial in the handling of all cases as CCIA lead. So the position of admin is of no relevance when an IR is placed.


Moving on, I'd like you to cite me examples, logs, any form of evidence really. Now I'm not saying your claims is false. The issue here is you are telling us a car is speeding without telling us a time and place. So the car may very well be speeding but we'd be hard pushed to find it if we don't know where to start.

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I might hit the word count limit.


I want to preface by this by saying that I am aware I have a very obnoxious, aggressive sense of humor. I am playfully confrontational with most people (all kinds, from non-staff to Garnascus) on Aurora because I have known many of these people for years. I'm also very aware that this is not everyone's cup of tea. It is perfectly fine to come to me and say that you're uncomfortable with this, if you've ever adminhelped something, you can gather that I'm not always Like That. What you have referred to as "toxic and angry" is most likely banter. It is mutually shared. I also want to clarify that you are not obligated to enjoy this humor. You just have to tell me. With that out of the way, let's move on.


I will begin detailing the incident the spawned this complaint. Don't worry about not having pictures, because I have plenty for the both of us. They are unedited, because I will not be accused of clipping the logs. I've separated it into parts. *Edited to remove the ckey of an innocent bystander.


 

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This is what you perceived as passive aggression. You were wearing the "nurse dress" that nurses spawn in in addition to a pair of white dress flats. Let me go into why that's an issue for a moment.

 

This is what our in game nurse dresses look like.

 

CC_00942_FashionNurse_CST2014.jpg

 


Anyone who has visited a hospital since the nineteen seventies will tell you that nurses do not wear dresses. They wear scrubs. Because the dresses were impractical to work in and were see-through more often than not when a woman bent down.


There are absolutely nurse dresses still in use, but they do not look like anything we have in game. To find this picture, I had to specify that I was looking for a nurse costume, and frankly, that's the only place that awful "uniform" belongs. I regard it as nothing more than a relic for when the game was still comprised of clowns and lawyers. It is not meant for a server that considers believability or realism.


If you are concerned that I was picking you out, I invite you to ask anyone else I've played medical with if I've done that to other nurses wearing the dress.

 

In addition, I threatened to file an injunction. An incident report is something that is handled by CCIAA. An injunction is something that is handled by security and command. Here is the injunction form, just to demonstrate my point.

 

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This was all IC. And that's fine. I wasn't bothered until the string of events that came after.



 

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You left the round after being threatened with the barest amount of IC discipline, you insulted me in OOC, and insulted me more in the general discord where I was not even present.



I have criticized your character, many times, as have others, in public. Out of the handful other characters I currently play, Zuhzir Mansurhani has actually openly insulted your character, and has his reasons for doing so. You seem reluctant at best to open up any dialogue concerning this character, or to confront people OOC about their misgivings (of which there are many, as you have said.) All of this has happened while you did not confront me to talk about these things or tell me that I had overstepped a boundary.


But to insult me, call me passive aggressive, and accuse me of metagrudging you while telling me to grow up of all the things - the irony is not lost on me.

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It is genuinely the shittiest thing ever to immediately cryo and ragequit because of things not going your character's way ICly. It is even shittier to slander someone and post toxic lies about someone without a single shred of evidence pertaining to what they did. This is absolutely not what we meant to tell you when we said for you to make a complaint. A complaint is to provide a civil case against either a staff member or a player for any potential wrongdoing or contentious decision-making. Levying personal, untrue attacks on their person is genuinely disgusting.

 

I am going to try to be nice about this, and not passive-aggressive, but I am warning you now, I may be such despite my efforts. Also note this is mainly an observation of Nursie towards everyone; not exclusively me. Nursie, I tried to respect you, I really did, I tried to be nice, I REALLY did. Unfortunately, my first personal experience with Nursie was her shitting on my character, an action which has since become the norm for almost everyone, which I do not think is helped by the validation of an admin who has a very large amount of power in the server.

 

Straight off the bat all you've said is that you're apparently being ruthlessly persecuted, but we've had this discussion in the discord earlier today based on a random outburst.

 

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This pretty much came out of the blue, but uh, lol. This says very poorly of you to start, with you seemingly angling to cosplay as a victim while also firing off very vile insults for seemingly no context that anybody could glean at all. And I imagine Lilium does as well but for whatever reason didn't seem to want to mention what the straw being drawn here is for.

 

This is not about her criticizing my character though. From my short experience of merely a few months on the Aurora, Nursie does this to almost everyone. Any interaction I have seen between her and someone else is always toxic and angry, not to mention the times I have both heard about and witnessed her saying and doing things as her characters that are only threatening because WE KNOW she's an admin, (like threatening to IR people for wearing the standard female nurse's uniform, not cool.) All in all, I have never seen anyone have a pleasant OOC interaction with Nursie, nor have I myself. I understand being an Admin is stressful and comes with a lot of power, but really? It just doesn't seem appropriate to dump out whatever stress or toxicity just because you want to whether it is in IC or OOC. (I am sorry I seem to have no screenshots or anything, I always forget to take them when something actually happens).

 

Bullshit. Nursie is one of the most patient administrators on the server, and they genuinely shy away from conflict with players in general compared to other staff members. This is where I am demanding actual proof of her OOC toxicity to people here, in three and a half years of playing here I haven't seen nursie be over the line toxic to anyone at all.


Furthermore, in response to the "threatening to IR", thing. That is Nursie's character, not Nursie herself. The CMO threatened your character with an injunction, not an incident report. A filed injunction is effectively a cease and desist letter filed by a superior to a subordinate to conform to the expectations of the ranking head of staff. That was threatened because you OOCly decided you weren't going to have your character wear anything other than a dress with skin exposed.


The irony isn't lost on me either, when the OP is accusing an administrator wrongfully of being "bitchy", guilty of "metagrudging", and being "passive aggressive and toxic", when they are displaying the exact same behavior. I am led to believe this is genuine projection of personal weaknesses, because this is just ridiculous.

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While I do not have specific evidence of this behaviour, as it has not been targetted at me and you never expect admins of all people to end up in a complaint regarding poor behaviour, I can say that I have seen plenty of comments from Nursie regarding Liliums character/s that were less than constructive criticism. Nursie has basically admitted this in her response, then attempted to hide behind the shield of banter. This is extremely poor form, especially when the behaviour is seemingly targetted at a player who is already dealing with documented harassment from other players, something that a lot of the admin staff are already aware of and should probably have notes on, regarding the offenders; the fact that an admin joins in, not only supporting these abusive personal attacks but emboldening those who do them, is a clear case of lending the power and status of the administration team to the basic abuse of a player. Maybe that much wasn't intentional in your attempt to be a bantersaurus rex, but such is the outcome, and while I think the actual act of trying to pull an injunction that specifically targets one player in your department without mentioning them by name, because your character cannot stand the NT approved uniform, may not be that egregious of an offense, it can still seem somewhat pointlessly personally targetted when you're on the recieving end and was likely just the straw that broke the camels back.


It's okay to not like people OOCly. It's okay to not like someones characters. But maybe wind your neck in and quit dumping your toxic opinions on someone in full view of the server, as an admin. You not only make yourself look bad, but the whole staff team you work with.

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As Konfliqt said, this is not because of the bloody IR. Last night you literally became the straw that broke the camel's back. It's all well and good that you have a toxic or dark sense of humour or whatever you want to call it, but it comes off as extremely toxic, especially when you seem to target me when everyone else does. I don't think you realize this so I will say it again. AN ADMIN TARGETING A SPECIFIC PERSON GIVES OTHER PEOPLE VALIDATION TO DO SO. I am not going to imply that you are the reason people harass me, that would be childish and unacceptable, however I certainly don't think it helped the matter any. Especially not when I was already being harassed by people when you started doing this, and afterwards it only got WORSE. There is a LOOC log out there of me walking ICly into the bar and immediately getting harassed in LOOC, from a few days ago where Catnip had to step in and tell people to stop. That is all I did. Again, you are not the direct cause of this, but everytime you say something even joking, you have to take into account who will take it seriously. Also, some very nice person (whom I shall not name) sent me actual things you have said about me unironically as well as an out of context quote which I can easily explain. Now I do understand these could have been jokes, but one of them involves a joke I made which has been used out of context to bash me since it happened during a LOOC conversation between myself and a few other people. And for reference, telling someone to take off a STANDARD ISSUE UNIFORM is not discipline. If it is the uniform, the Head of Staff does not actually retain the right to change that.

 

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Is that all you got? Comments from a month ago attacking your character?


How is this harassment? How can you not tell the distinction?


Maybe this wouldn't have been such a confusion if you didn't name your character after your username.

 

And for reference, telling someone to take off a STANDARD ISSUE UNIFORM is not discipline. If it is the uniform, the Head of Staff does not actually retain the right to change that.

 

Absolutely incorrect, you also do not have a head of staff whitelist, so do not pretend like you know the regulations better than an administrator or actual head of staff players do. The heads of staff reserve the right to enforce uniform protocol by any means they see fit that is within regulation. If a head of staff says the nurse outfit is not in regulation, it is not in regulation.


It is amazing how utterly flippant you are. You are complaining about your character being criticized yet you do a 180 and viciously insult the same administrator who barely did anything wrong in the first place.


How can you complain when people call you out for the most out-of-this-world crap that you say, in addition to that? If you can't realize that you need to act like a civil human being on this server as best as you can then you may actually be better off leaving this server like you said you would.


If you get offended based on criticism/jokes about your character, you are unhealthily too invested in that character.

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Schev, I understand that you are friends with Nursie, but have you seen some of the things people have said? I understand that what I said to Nursie was wrong and out of anger, I was very emotional and I can admit that I was wrong to do that, but she was literally the straw that broke the camel's back. So I do not this morning, after having slept off a full emotional breakdown, stand by that statement, it was out of the blue and uncool. However, I still stand-by this complaint. Those are from a month ago yes, but it illustrates the point that this is not just a recent issue, honestly if I made player complaints against all the people that have said shit we'd probably lose a couple who are already on hot water. That does not excuse Nursie's behavior though, regardless of how old they were. Whether she was insulting the character or not, one cannot simply insult the character if they know nothing about them other than out of context quotes and a few five minute interactions, you CANNOT possibly know a character that fast. And again, this isn't specifically about me. I have been told about Nursie doing this to MULTIPLE people. Just because you're a metabuddy with Nursie, doesn't mean you can 100% turn a blind eye to anytime she does anything just straight up uncalled for as well, I am not the only one.

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I'll remind both [mention]Scheveningen[/mention] and [mention]K0NFL1QT[/mention] that this complaint is not addressed to them and that their involvement here should be limited to the rule itself.

 

Only post if involved or you have something to contribute. If you are not a moderator or administrator and were not involved in the incident(s) referred to, you may not post or reply to a staff complaint regarding said incident(s). It is permissible, however, to provide testimony regarding a staff member's behavior backed by proof, in the form of screenshots or logs, or as a witness of some form that can (respectfully) verify/refute any claims made

 



As for [mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention], have you reported these offenders? From my point of view, I've seen you speak of harassment and I believe we did send someone to speak to you about it once. I've yet to see you take the initiative to report this issue as a whole. If all your claims are true about Nursie, then there is undoubtedly more players that have done this as well. Yet not a single name comes to mind in recent memory of a person that has actually done this deed to you.


Edit: You posted as I posted. So I'll go over a thing from your post.

 

honestly if I made player complaints against all the people that have said shit we'd probably lose a couple who are already on hot water.

 

They're on hot water for a reason. Report them. It could be as trivial as telling them "They don't like it, stop."

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I did speak to them about this in an upset state about this where I was unable to name anyone, however, I do have two major offenders who come to mind. SovietCyanide (Plahunter here or something like that) and Ayerism (who I have been made to understand is sdwj or something, I believe they're a mod, I dunno.) And again, I'm not blaming her for their behaviour, but after you ripped on me OOC a few times, they did get worse. I just really want to make it abundantly clear to her that it is fine to joke, but seriously, be careful who it's in front of. At this point I'm not even really that upset anymore, I think my stupid, upset and frankly exhausted, 12 am brain just needed a target and I am sorry. That said, I believe I did give one of those names in PMs with the admin and nothing has come of it, so honestly, I did name at least ONE person to no results.

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I did speak to them about this in an upset state about this where I was unable to name anyone, however, I do have two major offenders who come to mind. SovietCyanide (Plahunter here or something like that) and Ayerism (who I have been made to understand is sdwj or something, I believe they're a mod, I dunno.) And again, I'm not blaming you for their behaviour, but after you ripped on me OOC a few times, they did get worse. I just really want to make it abundantly clear to you that it is fine to joke, but seriously, be careful who it's in front of. At this point I'm not even really that upset with you anymore, I think my stupid, upset and frankly exhausted, 12 am brain just needed a target and I am sorry.

 

Neither are presently staff members. Anyway, what I need you to do is send me a private forum PM listing the people harassing you, include evidence too. This is something you really should have reported at the time. We will look into this independently from the complaint as I won't want to mix things up.

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Right. I would like to still keep my complaint about Nursie, because again, joking is all well and good, but I still don't see that as an excuse to be vicious while you joke. There are people who can back me up that after Nursie says something to me, (as she is an admin, to my knowledge friends with you, and seemingly generally respected, but not necessarily liked.), the people who are shitbags, kind of get shittier. The things Nursie say can range from actually sort of humorous to almost flat out mean as well. But people take her seriously. I'm not saying don't joke around or make the occasional comment, but for fuck's sake, why would you fuel the fire of something I have made clear in the past is an issue for me?

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I see you grabbed some images and left out your reply, and the context. Let me get that for you.


 

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These were your responses to the perceived harassment.

Not "this is starting to feel personal," or even "you're taking this a little far." At no point did you even privately contact me to tell me that you were feeling attacked, that everyone was harassing you by dumping on your character. Just "rip" to do what, I assume, is you pretending you're in on a joke. And from what I've been told, this is very close to common behavior for you, being willfully reluctant to acknowledge criticisms of your character, and when it is put in front of you like so, you feign complacency.


You are responsible for yourself. Your own actions and your own feelings. You cannot expect people to be considerate of your feelings when you aren't honest with them. As I've said before, you only come to me just now - After this has been going on for approximately a month when you have done little else but let others presume you ambivalent to what you perceived as harassment. Not once did you come to me during this time, despite that you have said I've made many ugly comments OOC, and even inspired others to do the same. I am not liable for harassing you when I was not even aware that you objected to the behavior.


The more and more I look at this, it looks like it very much is about criticizing your character. I've never said anything about you as a person, nor do I know anything about you, and as Schev posted, the only incidents of what you perceived as harassment was myself mocking your character.

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Guest Menown

I'm not involved, but I'm hitting you guys with some #knowledge


https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=95&t=5539#p55288


Current uniform guidelines set in place by CCIA members in the past as identified in the linked post dictate as follows:

 

Medical. Jumpsuits OR Scrubs are required if you are handling and treating patients, chemicals, or viruses. Failure to wear proper, sterilized clothing may result in malpractice (Neglect of Duty under corporate infractions, possible manslaughter) charges. Jumpsuits must make you easily identifiable as a member of the medical department. Colored labcoats are fine under regulation, as long as they are kept clean.

 


The nurse outfit is neither a jumpsuit, nor a set of scrubs. It's borderline fetish material left in the code that was obviously meant for the nurse meme and should be removed.

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Took a while, there really wasn't much here in terms of damning evidence. Just a few cut out logs without much context that I needed to figure out myself. I'll start with the verdict.


I do not find [mention]nursiekitty[/mention] to have done any major wrong doing in this case. While I won't deny that their humor can at times be "heavy", it's never been out of malice. They're an understanding person where if you tell them to stop, they will. They've been an administrator longer than I've been a member of staff, so if they were toxic and belligerent to the community at large, I'm 100% positive they would not be a staff member for as long as they are right now, two years and a month actually. This verdict was also reached by checking your discord message history, went as far back as February actually. The only messages I see that show you in some shape, way or form to be displeased towards this type of humor was only on the same day in which this complaint was put up.


It's also my opinion after reviewing these messages personally and what's been posted here is that through some of your comments, jokes and actions, true or not, has developed this aura pertaining to your character. Which in addition to how you responded to it, made it seem to even me for a while that you were in on the joke, until a few discord comments were made by yourself, to which [mention]DatBerry[/mention] spoke to you and asked that you do report instances of harassment among another thing. This is the only instance involving staff and yourself about any harassment and it was us speaking to you first. I asked the team and the majority which replied to me stated that they've never had any of this reported to them, though do correct me with a name if I'm wrong about this.


So I'm going to address a few points now written here.


[mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention]

Any interaction I have seen between her and someone else is always toxic and angry, not to mention the times I have both heard about and witnessed her saying and doing things as her characters that are only threatening because WE KNOW she's an admin, (like threatening to IR people for wearing the standard female nurse's uniform, not cool.)

 

This is in-character, I addressed this already. Their status as an administrator matter nothing towards the Incident Report processing, which wasn't actually cited by their character.


[mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention]

All in all, I have never seen anyone have a pleasant OOC interaction with Nursie, nor have I myself.

The fact you've never seen it doesn't mean it never happens. This seems more of an opinion based on limited observation instead of a fact or a viable testimony.


[mention]K0NFL1QT[/mention]

This is extremely poor form, especially when the behaviour is seemingly targetted at a player who is already dealing with documented harassment from other players, something that a lot of the admin staff are already aware of and should probably have notes on, regarding the offenders; the fact that an admin joins in, not only supporting these abusive personal attacks but emboldening those who do them, is a clear case of lending the power and status of the administration team to the basic abuse of a player.

 

A lot of issues with this statement.

 

  • It's not documented harassment. The only time we were marginally introduced to the fact this was not just humor including [mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention] is when they said the following in main discord, which Berry spoke to them about it. "I'm thinking about leaving Aurora."

  • Not a lot of us are aware of this. This complaint brought it to light.

  • No, this is not a clear case of lending power. This is a case of miscommunication. It's actually quite rude to call someone out for abuse like this with minimal to no evidence.

 


[mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention]

I'm not saying don't joke around or make the occasional comment, but for fuck's sake, why would you fuel the fire of something I have made clear in the past is an issue for me?

I don't think you made clear until this Sunday/Monday. We're not omnipotent. Even if you made off handed comments in the main discord about being annoyed, it's not something that we will always notice. People idly complain a lot and most of it aren't really things that matter.



So, to reiterate my verdict point by point.

 

  • I don't believe [mention]nursiekitty[/mention] to be using their position as administrator to abuse [mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention].

  • Based on actions done and said by yourself, [mention]LiliumArgentium[/mention], you gave an impression of what your character is which people have taken as a humor, something my search has led me to believe you never directly called out or told others to stop.

  • You've also made minimal effort to report these harassment until now. It takes very little to copy logs and to send it to a staff member to handle.

  • Based on this complaint, [mention]nursiekitty[/mention] understands that this humor is not something you like and will refrain from it. Though note that feedback and humor are exclusive. Everyone receives character feedback, it's only an issue if delivered improperly. I'm also going to mention [mention]SovietCyanide[/mention] and [mention]sdtwbaj[/mention] as they were mentioned to be harassing you.

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This is extremely poor form, especially when the behaviour is seemingly targetted at a player who is already dealing with documented harassment from other players, something that a lot of the admin staff are already aware of and should probably have notes on, regarding the offenders; the fact that an admin joins in, not only supporting these abusive personal attacks but emboldening those who do them, is a clear case of lending the power and status of the administration team to the basic abuse of a player.

 

A lot of issues with this statement.

 

  • It's not documented harassment. The only time we were marginally introduced to the fact this was not just humor including @LiliumArgentium is when they said the following in main discord, which Berry spoke to them about it. "I'm thinking about leaving Aurora."

  • Not a lot of us are aware of this. This complaint brought it to light.

  • No, this is not a clear case of lending power. This is a case of miscommunication. It's actually quite rude to call someone out for abuse like this with minimal to no evidence.

 

  • I don't know when exactly that particular exchange with DatBerry was, but I know at the very least DatBerry/Catnip, Alberyk and I think Aboshedab were at least vaguely aware of the harassment going on over the last few weeks, as they have been either responding to unwarranted LOOC messages from players directed at Lilium, or have been spoken to directly regarding the matter, such as when somebody used 'you're a thot' as their reason for gibbing Lilium at the conclusion of an event round; and then they discussed it afterwards like adults.
  • I'll grant, minimal evidence of no great abuse. I also noted that Nursie was not the only one, and was not even the most heinous aggressor. She was one of several but was doing it from a position of power, and happened be the one that pushed Lilium past her tolerance.

 

But your verdict is your verdict and I have no stand to refute it. I hope everyone can move past this with a little empathy, and all treat each other more humanely in future.

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Oh jeez, I noticed this late. This is a verdict I can accept. Though Konfliqt's first point is correct, though I will not argue about this. I'm rather emotionally screwed at the moment, and I am sorry that I did this on a bit of an emotional tangent, it was a shitty thing to do and I really do feel bad about being a dick. It was not right to take out my shit on Nursie.

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Oh jeez, I noticed this late. This is a verdict I can accept. Though Konfliqt's first point is correct, though I will not argue about this. I'm rather emotionally screwed at the moment, and I am sorry that I did this on a bit of an emotional tangent, it was a shitty thing to do and I really do feel bad about being a dick. It was not right to take out my shit on Nursie.

 

No hard feelings I believe.


Just in the future, if humor you dislike happens, tell them to stop. Failing that report them. If the two people you cited continue it, inform staff as they've been mentioned in this complaint.


Deeming this resolved. Locking and archiving.

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