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Skull132 - Board Warning


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BYOND Key: XanderDox

Staff BYOND Key: [mention]Skull132[/mention]

Game ID: N/A

Reason for complaint: Abuse of authority to punish someone due to personal dislike.

Evidence/logs/etc: cd9df13d46.png

Additional remarks:


My post was literally 'System broke, plz fix' referencing the fact that the system is bugged, and needs to be fixed (I believe this has already been reported on Github) . Our community literally thrives on joking with one another and being light fools and I have no clue how this warranted a board warning.


Some of our staff engage in worse, outright using the n-word and the like which is something I personally find abhorrent and disgusting, yet seemingly go unpunished.


I ask this warning be removed, and that staff begin to review their own conduct before punishing others for much, much much lighter offenses.


(( https://imgur.com/a/p1YCv5M ))

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So


Here is the thread https://forums.aurorastation.org/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=11529


Here is the post you made

 

d6d4752cf71faaceb7cbe6f09c868ed1.png

 


The projects and suggestions side of the forums is the devs domain. They reserve the ability to remove posts that violate our conduct rules. Shitposting in a work area like this isn't really tolerated as much as it is elsewhere. You where given the lightest form of punishment possible for it. A reminder to please not do this again. Your argument against this is that i say the word nigga every now and then? Wouldn't a reasonable human being go "oh alright in the future i will not shitpost in these threads!". I am not really seeing how this is an abuse of authority because skull doesn't like you.

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I don't think what I said warranted a recorded forum-system warning, a messaged one sure - but the board automatically bans after someone gets a certain amount of warnings afaik and something like this should NOT contribute to that.

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I've literally just come back from a month hiatus from active-play on the Aurora, my dad is literally in the hospital trying not to die of liver failure. I just want to be in this community without having my actions constantly nitpicked and watched with a hawkeye, is that really so much to ask? What was posted in the thread just did not warrant a warning in the system.

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I am looking in the administration control panel at our "board settings" panel. All i see is a variable to control how long until a warning expires. There does not appear to be a system ban once a user reaches X amount of warnings. I really do not see the issue here man.

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Okay so. Let me put the scene for you. It's 3 AM after a work week. We just finished a full system reboot about an hour ago due to a failed drive. Some old code issues creeping up against causing the server to be unplayable right after the full system restart. And I was now finally chilling, looking at code I wanted to write. Then Fowl sees your post, reports it, is about to delete it (as he would on the suggestions forum), but realizes that he doesn't have the permissions due to an error on my part when setting up the projects forum. So he pings me.


My first act is to be confused, because I could have sworn I copied permissions over properly. Shortly after this, I trot over to the link, I glance at the post, I click the report and from there the "Issue warning" button, and I soft-delete your post. I do this because the post is clearly unhelpful, does not convey any meaningful information, and is made in a clearly silly manner. Now, usually, those factors combine to make what's called a shitpost. I report back to the dev discord that I've handled the report and ye. As I do so, Arrow suggests to Fowl that he report the post for Mods and Admins to deal with.


As some more background. Recently, the Admins have encouraged devs to, instead of simply soft-deleting posts like yours, to report the individuals so they could b e warned and, if they keep up, eventually banned. So you can say that there's effectively new internal policy to actually start enforcing forum rules with consequences on those boards.


Now. If you think that at any point there, the fact that you were Xander played a role in what I did, then I physically do not know how to explain to you that it did not.



Now to further elaborate on two keys points. First, why was the post deemed off-topic and removed. Because it conveyed no meaningful information and did nothing to assist the developer in the continued development of his feature. Now, let me unpack that a little.


First, consider the clearly outlined purpose of the board. "This forum is for project authors (coders, spriters, etcetera) to create feedback topics on their contributions. [...]" So basically, the purpose of the board is to gather community feedback on specific implementations of a given idea. I won't go into the specifics of how this differs from the suggestions board here, but the general point is: the feedback must actually be constructive.


Now, we do understand and recognize that not everyone is savvy enough to post full fledged bug reports with steps to reproduce, a full technical write-out of what is the intended outcome and what is the current outcome, etcetera. So saying something like, "Hey, this bit or bob here doesn't work!" would be fine. As long as there was an actual visible effort to be genuinely helpful in there. Going, "lel it broke" contains no meaningful information outside of the fact that something or all of it is broken. Doesn't even attempt to describe in which fashion it's broken. Or why you think that. Ergo: contains absolutely no useful information for the developer to with, outside of the fact that, "Hey, there is an issue with this large and complex system."


And the post was written in a fashion where it clearly did not intend to contain such information.



As for, "Hey, it's a community, we joke about stuff!" No.


Or more correctly, yes, we do, but we have specific areas for that. Like the off-topic board. Everything else is considered to be on-topic. With the limits for it depending on the concreteness of the board. So you can get away with funny shit in General, as it covers a whole breadth of potential topics and discussions, but on boards with a clearly outlined objective, the limits are stricter.


In general. These limits are not things to be made exceptions to. Because it would convey a sense of unfair enforcement or worse, encourage infraction on the basis of, "He dun it too!" So no, while we do acknowledge that there's a time and place for jokes, that place is never a board that's meant for an explicit purpose.



And finally, the matter of a warning vs a message. All administrative action against an individual should be logged. If we talk to you ingame, we will either put a note about it on your account, or issue a warning or a ban. Strikes are used on Discord, along with a specific hidden logs channel. For the forums, we don't have a decent notes section, so we just use warnings for tracking infractions. This practice is necessary for us to actually keep track of people who've done shit.


If you were to, hypothetically, continue shitposting on the projects forums after my warning, and I had only sent you a PM instead of logging the warning, then the next admin or mod would most likely think that you're a first time offender. At which point, he'd potentially do the same as I, and you'd still continue. And this series of wrist slaps would continue up until one of the people who's already wrist slapped you spots you violating his verbal warning and goes, "Guys. I already gave him a chance on this."


A warning, which creates a log and increments a counter, is a clear indication for other staff that you've already fouled up against something. They can then investigate and decide whether this something should affect their current decision. This is why warnings, notes, and the like are used instead of verbal notes that other staff cannot track.


Also, "[...] but the board automatically bans after someone gets a certain amount of warnings afaik and something like this should NOT contribute to that." I don't know where you got this misinformation from, but I would like you to point it out. Because this is not the case.


And no. You do not have a right to decide how we log your infractions. You can only contest the severity of the punishment applied.



Now, I think I've offered a very exhaustive explanation of my actions. And I really don't have much else to add.

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We had a very brief discussion about this on discord before the warning was applied. All developers present agreed that this is behaviour that we have no interest to entertain in the Projects Subforum.


Our expectation for the Projects Subforum is constructive feedback to help the developers who post feedback threads there improve the PRs in question.

Your post of "Lol System is broke sad days plz fix" does not contribute to that.

It completely goes against the objectives of the Projects Subforum and sets a bad precedent for other people who might want to leave feedback.

I would even go so far and say that it discourages getting feedback in the Projects Subforum, because why should you even post there, when you can expect a shitpost as answer ?


An example for feedback that we would like to have there:

When testing the bounty system I have experienced that some of the bounties are not accepted correctly.

I noticed this with the following bounties: "Toolboxes, Posibrains, Spears"

The difference between that and what you posted is that this raises a issue that can be addressed and resolved by the developer.

Where as the sentence that you posted does not give the developer any helpful feedback. In fact, it is so generic that it could be applied to every single pull request we ever made.


As I explained above the provided feedback does not provide a developer with any helpful information.

It sets a bad precedent and discourages posting Projects for Feedback.

We have no time and interest to moderate and delete Shitposts from other people that will post them if they see that you can do so without any actual consequences.

Therefore I believe that the warning should stay applied.

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I still wish to have this warning removed because I think what I said did not warrant a warning.

 


Well, I don't have anything to add here. Already explained why the warning is essentially the minimum punishment on the forums and why you earned yourself one. Up to Garn to decide if it's valid, then.

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I really feel like the warning is totally legit xander. I can promise you whatever dislike skull may or may not have for you did not factor into this. I am sorry but if there are no closing comments i will consider this resolved within 24 hours.

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I really feel like the warning is totally legit xander. I can promise you whatever dislike skull may or may not have for you did not factor into this. I am sorry but if there are no closing comments i will consider this resolved within 24 hours.

 

I didn't even know the Project forum was a new project, I've literally just come back after being away for a month and didn't know the rules there were more serious than in other locations. This is just unfair.

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I didn't even know the Project forum was a new project, I've literally just come back after being away for a month and didn't know the rules there were more serious than in other locations. This is just unfair.

 

Thats not how it works.

Ignorantia juris non excusat or ignorantia legis neminem excusat (Standard principle almost everywhere rules/laws apply)

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I really feel like the warning is totally legit xander. I can promise you whatever dislike skull may or may not have for you did not factor into this. I am sorry but if there are no closing comments i will consider this resolved within 24 hours.

 

I didn't even know the Project forum was a new project, I've literally just come back after being away for a month and didn't know the rules there were more serious than in other locations. This is just unfair.

 

I'd be extremely curious to hear how the subforum in question being a recent one had any effect on this punishment. I outlined my thought process in an overly detailed fashion in this post, including all factors which were considered. All of which were either established rules and convention, or clearly visible. Hint: the subforum has had, since its creation, a little blurb above it detailing its purpose. Failure to notice and or to accommodate this as a consideration while posting is not our concern, since the mechanic in question is the standard mechanic we have used since ages past to inform people of forum rules and the rest.

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