[Resolved] Staff Complaint - QueenOfYugoslavia

BYOND Key: CampinKiller

Staff BYOND Key: QueenOfYugoslavia

Game ID: bVy-dG0R

Reason for complaint: Given a warning for use of force

Evidence/logs/etc: Before I post logs, it should be noted that I did not even use lethal force. I beat the suspect with an energy gun set to lethal, because it was the first thing I grabbed. Regardless, my issue here is that, in every use of force manual ever, lethal force is met with lethal force. Period. No ifs, ands, or buts. If someone is stabbing someone else, they are using lethal force, and should expect to be met with lethal force, as using it to defend someone else is absolutely justified. Queen, however, decided that is not the case.

I want to expand on a couple things here:

-Queen mentioned that the other person started the fight, but I did not know this, as I opened the door to see one person being stabbed.

-Queen mentions that the other person was not at risk of death, despite the fact that they were actively being stabbed. I would call that being at risk of death.

-It should be noted that I never actually used lethal force. I whacked the person with the butt-end of my carbine, which is decidedly not lethal force. The only thing was that the carbine was set on kill from engagements earlier, but it was not actually fired.

Also, a use of force continuum used by law enforcement, for reference.

Additional remarks: I would like my warning removed, and Queen to be educated on justifiable use of force.

I'll be handling this complaint. Waiting on [mention]Drakogova[/mention] to post their side.

I have no issue working with people and dont wanna give warnings out if I dont have to, but if you act above the rules, then it makes it harder to work with you.

You had a poor attitude across the two tickets involving this situation and felt you were above being bwoinked to talk about the issue, the first ticket refusing to answer any questions and the second one arguing why it is ok to use lethal force in situations where non lethal force can be used. The warning was placed as a combination of the attitude displayed and the lack of willing to reason to what is proper combat escalation, the warning serving as a notice that if you do not wish to heed the suggestion and advice from me on how to act in a situation, that the rulebook should be refered to.

Would like [mention]Alberyk[/mention] input on this as they were the one mostly surrounding the ahelps that led to this

I do not believe I am “above” being bwoinked. My issue from the first one is that I was being asked to drop everything in the middle of a situation, instead of being allowed to make time later, as is typical.

As for arguing, when I am being told wrong, I will argue. Someone was being actively stabbed, to the point of blindness. They’ve escalated to lethal force. At that point, lethal force is absolutely justified, because they are trying to kill someone. What am I supposed to do, wait until they’ve killed the person to use lethal force? What are you defining as “proper” combat escalation, when the person involved has escalated as far as you can go?

Even then, I didn’t actually use lethal force, but rather beat the person to the ground.

So, I've had a look at the PM logs and the situation, and there are two main points I'd like to address.

[mention]CampinKiller[/mention], your attitude in PMs is not acceptable. If you are busy IC and cannot answer an administrator, tell them you need a moment and resolve whatever immediately needs resolving. That can be done by either separating yourself from the situation, LOOCing people to pause because you're in an admin sit, or otherwise. Additionally, it is not your job to determine what is an IC or OOC issue. If staff contact you it is to determine potential OOC misconduct. Once they have completed their investigation they will either deem it IC or OOC. The more you cooperate with the admin bwoinking you the faster the process becomes.

[mention]Drakogova[/mention], while stuns were an option, lethals were justified in this scenario. A suspect/prisoner stabbing another person's eyes is extreme enough to be considered lethal force. CampinKiller is right, in that when lethal force is used security is allowed to respond with lethal force. His use of stuns or not in this scenario is IC. On the subject of using the weapon to bash instead of shoot, there could be concerns of friendly fire or him just not wanting to point blank the person to death. Regardless, that part of the situation is IC.

The warning will be removed, and in its place a note about cooperating with staff will be placed on your account [mention]CampinKiller[/mention].

I will leave this open for 24 hours in case anyone has anything to add.

I'm late. Marking as resolved and archiving.