Staff Complaint - TheOrleans - TrickingTrapster

BYOND Key: TheOrleans

Staff BYOND Key: TrickingTrapster

Game ID: bWw-dzkr

Reason for complaint: I was given a warning after something I think I didn't do wrong. I'll explain:

First, the context

I joined the round and went to my Workshop (as Roboticist) and due to a shocked door I lost my hand (just think about the associated pain, the trauma... everything), and there was no one to blame for it (it was the AI I think). After I was healed, I came back and Willow Harper (Janitor) told me ''Lars if you don't shut the fuck up I will shut it for you.'' through the radio (I was complaining about the AI who shocked the door and made me lose my hand), after that I said: ''Harper, you useless Jainitor, you should come by and start sucking my dick''

So, after this happened, Harper just came and broke into my Workshop (broke two reinforced glasses and a grille to get in), I was making the replacement of my hand at that moment, I couldn't even replace my arm when she was already inside, and we started fighting until Observo (Research Director) came in to stop the fight. We were both quite close to death, but I could get up and I kept attacking her, and I killed her when I did that.

I was warned because I killed her. TrickingTrapster literally said ''Why did you go for the kill, and not the incapacitate?''. Really? I was fighting with just one arm, still shocked, and I had to ''go for the incapacitation''? That wouldn't be logical at all, and of course, Harper was going for the kill too (I ended nearly dead and had to get a surgery with head trauma and everything)

So, Harper clearly broke the escalation rules (being mean to someone is not a reason to break into a place like the Robotics workshop to beat the hell out of the person who was mean), and I got the warning for... defending myself (in that context)

Additional remarks: I don't have pictures since I didn't think that a situation were another player broke the escalation could turn against me. Thank you

"Incapacitate" means drop the fighting when your opponent is on the floor and no longer fighting back. Especially when there's a third party involved that is actively stopping you both from trying to kill eachother, why did you get up and kept on going when there was clearly no longer a need to? Defending yourself from someone breaking into your place is one thing, killing them as a result is something else entirely. Harper was clearly incapacitated when the RD broke up your fight, so I don't get why your character would risk a murder charge and lose their job, go to prison and most likely lose coverage to replace their arm. And it is quite literally one of the rules that you should not kill if you don't have to, even in self-defense. And you clearly didn't have to in this case.

[mention]Juani2400[/mention] And I will be taking this.

I would like to remark something

In fact, I opened this because I think that I didn't do it that bad, and I don't want to have warnings, I consider myself a good player, and I know that notes or warnings stack.. and I don't want to be one of "those" players.

Anyways, if this ends clearly showing that I did it quite wrong, at least I will learn something from this

My intention is not to attack the Moderator involved or anything.

I just wanted to remark that

Hi, [mention]Juani2400[/mention] have finally reached a conclusion. We have found the warning to be justified, considering you started the fight both verbally and physically, as seen here in these logs. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/445255992167366656/498540264496037909/unknown.png

That being said, we will not be removing the warning.

I will be locking then archiving this in 24 hours.

Hi, @Juani2400 have finally reached a conclusion. We have found the warning to be justified, considering you started the fight both verbally and physically, as seen here in these logs. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/445255992167366656/498540264496037909/unknown.png

That being said, we will not be removing the warning.

I will be locking then archiving this in 24 hours.

I did not start the fight at all, if you check the logs, the assistant broke two reinforced glases and a grille to fight me...

This complained was re-reviewed by myself.

1) Verbally Willow initiated the conflict.

2) Physically Willow initiated the fight. While yes Orleans has thrown that knife initially at Willow, it was a response to Willow breaking into his room.

3) They were both fighting tooth and nail really, which for Orleans is acceptable as the escalation was forced upon him. The character had gone through a number of issues that round with the most recent one losing a limb to a shocked door. For context, the round is malfunction. Up to now it's alright for Orleans.

4) The issue occurs when in his battered state, the Director was present and trying to break up the fight. Orleans continued to beat, eventually kill and basically mutilate Willow all the while the Director is present trying to stop the fighting. This moves away from self defense to excessive force now. This would be a different story if it was just you, but a person did intervene, your superior no less.

So the verdict, without getting into too much detail. The warning is going to be reworded to better illustrate the issues here. The initial conflict was not an issue to Orleans, it's how it ended. The situation may have initially called for defending ones self to their best ability, that was no longer necessary when active attempts to halt the fighting was made by a third party.

Additionally, the origins of the fight in regards to Willow Harper is going to be looked into.

Locking and archiving.