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Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

Worthy wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 5:43 pm
Diona runespam is already a massive meme in certain cult rounds and a tremendous headache to deal with. They do certainly not need even more of a free pass to runespam. Perhaps have diona be damaged as normal, as they are offering part of their biomass for the ''blood magic''?
My plan is for it to cost them 'light/energy', at a rate that makes it sufficiently possible for them to die if they remain on an astral rune for too long, even in full light.

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

So, I tried to play around with diona energy levels, and discovered that diona can lose all the energy you want to take away, but unless they're standing in the dark, it won't update their need for light. You can use runes three dozen times and then walk one square into darkness and be suddenly hit by a wash of 'you need light' messages.

In lieu of trying to entirely rejigger diona (or make runes cast darkness, which was my second idea), I just decided to make the runes damage diona like before. It is a hefty chunk of damage (15 in most cases), which diona will find trivial to heal... if they are standing in the light. For astral projection, they can remain astral for an extended period if they're in a lit area, just like players, but not forever (test put them at 75 brute after 3 minutes and rising slowly. I could increase the damage to 12-15 if in main server playtesting it is going a little too slow). The damage eventually outpaces their ability to heal in full light, and eventually they will die if they don't come back into their body.

What this does essentially is force diona to remain in lit areas if they want to be a cultist, because they will damage themselves significantly otherwise. This is normal for diona, but at least before they could survive for a bit in low light. Now if they are a cultist, it's working in the light or nothing.
Last edited by Kaed on Sun May 27, 2018 3:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

Diona should not be damaged as normal, as even their normal damage can be negated whatsoever. They should be spending biomass, and start degenerating limbs if they fuck themselves up hard enough.

IPC's should be affected in some other way, yet I can't think of one right now. Their limbs shouldn't just be falling off, yet they have no other way to tick damage. Maybe their battery drops like a rock?

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

Someone already changed IPCs to be cult constructs. I'm not touching them.

As for biomass on diona, I don't really know how their biomass is calculated. But I can give it a poke.

Edit: Nevermind, looking at diona code gives me a freaking headache. What what we have here works in that it gives diona some limitations and keepts them from being infinite use cultists, imposing some down time on them between uses, but not a lot of it. It's basically the same as it works for humans.

If you want to change that, do it yourself, I already spend an hour and a half fucking with diona specific code before going fukkit and just damaging them significantly more than it used to to compensate for their healing.

So this is still an improvement on the default cult mechanics, even if it isn't perfect. The problem is that they are fundamentally difficult to balance while they're in light, because they just regen ridiculously fast.

And as as far as I can see for diona, they don't suffer for having low biomass like they do with low health, so that isn't really a limit without me coding in a 'you don't have enough biomass!' message to pop up and block them from runecrafting, or recoding their entire species to be hurt by low biomass in the specific situation where they used it for cult runes.

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

Kaed wrote:
Sat May 26, 2018 2:02 pm
No, the 'symbolic damage' is what we were doing before. It was why every cultist was covered in bruises every round. This is to get around that problem. The problem with brute damage is that it throws a tag on your character indicating they were bruised at a specific location. Usually, 'nonspecific damage' (which was what we used before, and is the easiest way to do symbolic damage) targets a random body part, leading to eventually every limb having a bruise on it.

I could theoretically code it to always target your right hand, but then there would always be a bruise on your right hand. And then, what if you are missing your right hand? Or your right hand is mechanical? Then I have to add code to change your targeted hand, and at this point it becomes a mess of exception spaghetti just to make the 'symbolic damage' work properly, and all for a tiny trivial damage point that isn't honestly needed or helpful.
It's like 8 lines of code to get a hand that is there. Including checking for stumps/mechanical hands.

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

I'm glad you ignored the rest of the implications behind my change to explain to me how much code I would have to copy paste to every single Rune that does a cost check.

This is a much simpler method and doesn't rely on you wounding yourself repeatedly to use your runes and instead using blood to power blood runes.

Is there an actual reason you think that we should go back to brute damage but now specifically targeted to whatever limb it can find, or are you just being contrary for the sake of it?

What benefit is there in doing it like that as opposed just having a blood cost and hand waving that your wound heals shut afterward or it being too small to notice?

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

Kaed wrote:
Sun May 27, 2018 7:36 pm
I'm glad you ignored the rest of the implications behind my change to explain to me how much code I would have to copy paste to every single Rune that does a cost check.
Is there an actual reason you think that we should go back to brute damage but now specifically targeted to whatever limb it can find, or are you just being contrary for the sake of it?
Because it makes more sense than "unga bunga magicly remov blod".

"I have to copy paste a lot!!" Doesn't work either, as you could just make the check a proc. or even make it based off the selection doll if you wanted to be lazier, effectively reducing it to like 4 lines of code.

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

I don't know, it makes perfect sense to me the way it's doing it. If you look at it strictly from the mechanics of the code then yes it's magically removing blood, but you can flavor the way you removing the blood however you like.

Technically speaking even the flavor text just indicates that you're cutting open a finger and drawing with the blood, not slitting open your wrist in a way that would leave a visible scar.

Re: Cult Rework: Actual Blood Magic

Regarding the brute damage received.
While I agree that brute damage all over the body doesn't really make sense,
It would make a bit more sense if we actually applied a slight amount of brute damage to their hands.

This can be balanced out easily by just wearing gloves -> As that should make the scars on your hands invisible. (Please correct me if I am wrong)
Although you would need to check if someone is wearing gloves when they draw a rune -> And prevent that if that's the case.
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