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[Resolved] Staff Complaint - MattAtlas


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BYOND Key: Sodapopbob

Staff BYOND Key: MattAtlas

Game ID: bRT-ckjU

Reason for complaint: Ruling dispute

Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:


It was a cult round, and i was converting a member of science as peace cult, when the captain rushes in to see what was going on (misc testing) which is odd, sec probably should've been called in first but it's just the beginning here. We (three cultists total) have a discussion with the captain, which goes as follows.

 

says, Kiara Field"Hello captain"

asks, Eleanor Shen"What's going on here?"

says, Tim Johanson"It really IS greater knowledge"

says, Kiara Field"We are having a discussion"

says, Hendrik Glaser"That shit is real.."

asks, Kiara Field"Maybe you would like to join us?"

says, Eleanor Shen"Well, let's clean the muck up and get back to work."

says, Hendrik Glaser"Awsome"

asks, Kiara Field"Would you like to hear me out captain?"

says, Eleanor Shen"Sure, I'm all ears."

says, Kiara Field"I was digging thorugh an old library"

says, Kiara Field"And found an ancient tome"

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Greetings"

queries, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"May this unit query why you are not doing your jobs?"

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Security wishes to know"

says, Kiara Field"No you cant, now leave please"

says, Tim Johanson"Hello Knowledge"

says, Kiara Field"Im having a private discussion with the captain"

asks, Tim Johanson"We are doing our job , expanding our horrizon . But is someone in robotics in need?"

says, Kiara Field"Captain, if you dont mind, will you dismiss Knowledge"

says, Kiara Field"This is a private discussion"

says, Eleanor Shen"Knowledge, you have orders from your supervisor."

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Obeying"

says, Kiara Field"After reading it, i found that i had aquired a greater understanding of reality. the dark corners of the universe yeilded its secrets to me."

says, Eleanor Shen"Anyways, library, ancient tome."

says, Kiara Field"I have finally shed light on the secrets of the universe"

says, Kiara Field"I have shared this understanding with the rest of science"

says, Kiara Field"These two can vouch for it"

says, Kiara Field"I would like to extend this understanding to anyone willing"

says, Kiara Field"Yourself included"

says, Tim Johanson"If you want to accept it"

asks, Kiara Field"Are you interested in learning the secrets of the universe?"

says, Eleanor Shen"Alright, well I always love to be involved with my science staff - you're out frontliners after all."

says, Eleanor Shen"How do I begin to understand these secrets of the universe."

says, Kiara Field"Perfect"

says, Kiara Field"Stand on the inscription"

says, Kiara Field"Now"

says, Kiara Field"Release your mind"

says, Hendrik Glaser"Science is great. every time you can discover something new"

Eleanor Shen

says, Eleanor Shen"OOooooohm...."

says, Kiara Field"Void yourself of all thought, all doubt"

says, Eleanor Shen"Oooooooohm....."

says, Kiara Field"Open your mind"

says, Kiara Field"You will feel the universe reach out too you"

says, Kiara Field"Do not be scared"

exclaims, Kiara Field"Mah`weyh pleggh at e'ntrath!"

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Eleanor Shen"G-Guh"

Science]Tim Johansonasks, "What ?"

says, Kiara Field"Its ok"

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Eleanor Shen"It hurts...."

says, Kiara Field"Dont be scared"

Eleanor Shen talks into the captain's headset

says, Eleanor Shen""G-a-... A...

says, Eleanor Shen"Gah... I'm bleeding..."

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Hendrik Glaser"You need to relax."

says, Kiara Field"Release... accept...."

Eleanor Shen examines herself.

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

stutters, Eleanor Shen"I-i-c-can-nt.."

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Hendrik Glaser"Take deep breathes"

says, Kiara Field"Tim was scared too"

says, Eleanor Shen"My "head

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Kiara Field"But he accepted the teachings of the universe"

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Kiara Field"You must clear your mind"

stutters, Eleanor Shen"It ut-ts-s t-too muc-c-ch...."

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

Eleanor Shen talks into the captain's headset

stammers, Eleanor Shen""H-He-l-l-l-lp-p-p-p.

says, Hendrik Glaser"We are with you"

says, Tim Johanson"It is alright"

says, Kiara Field"We are all with you"

Eleanor Shen writhes in pain as the markings below her glow a bloody red.

says, Tim Johanson"The light will come to bring yo-"

stammers, Eleanor Shen"EV-VERY-YT-TH-HIN-NG-G IS-S EX-XP-P-PL-LODIN-NG-G-G, T-TH-HER-RE'S-S-S-S N-NOIS-S-SE"

stammers, Eleanor Shen"IM-M-M-M IN S-S-SO M-MUC-C-C-CH-H P-PAIN-N"

says, Lelyl Kerei'Velan"What."

says, Lelyl Kerei'Velan"Move."

 

 

Security comes in, takes away the captain, and after some dialog, there's another conversion, which is successful. Henderson Minnie. Its not relevant to the complaint, so i'm not including it. MattAtlas played a game of semantics during the Ahelp, so the thing to take away from this, very specifically, is that After digging through an old library, i found an ancient tomb, which has given me understanding into the insights of the universe. Remember that. Notice nothing was said about said tomb being on my person, or said tomb giving me powers, and i didn't pull out and use the tomb during the conversion of the captain, the rune was already there when she showed up. all that was said was that a tomb i found expanded my mind.


After the conversion of the detective, we received an announcement from the captain that i was to not continue the conversions more or less. I told her it was my right to practice my religion, and i was served an arrest warrant. Knowledge and a sec borg came to arrest me, and i came peacefully. Here is the arrest. Again, due to semantics, i'm going to post the conversation, and point out the important parts at the end. Keep in mind that towards the end of the following texts, i'm also Ahelping with Matt but they are cut out and will be included in the complaint later.

 

 

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Halt"

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"You are under arrest"

K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E holds up a warrant projector and shows the contents to Kiara Field.

asks, Kiara Field"For?"

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Assault on head of staff"

queries, KIRBY"Are you willing to comply?"

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "I am apparently being placed under arrest for my choice of religion"

says, Kiara Field""i am apparently being placed under arrest for my choice of religion

says, Kiara Field"Alright, i will come peacefully"

states, KIRBY"Please take a sit and wait here."

says, Alan Grimm"To the cubicle please"

Alan Grimm is trying to remove Kiara Field's laboratory backpack!

Alan Grimm is trying to remove Kiara Field's PDA-Kiara Field (Scientist)!

Alan Grimm is trying to empty Kiara Field's pockets!

says, Kiara Field"I understandi am to be placed under arrest for my religious beliefs"

says, Kiara Field"I will require my religious trinkets while i am in confinement"

says, Alan Grimm"Should have read the warrant, ma'am"

says, Kiara Field"I read it"

[Common]Eleanor Shensays, "You were detained for assault on a head of staff."

asks, Alan Grimm"And did it say your cimes are following your religion?"

says, Kiara Field"Im under arrest for assault on head of personell"

says, Alan Grimm"That is correct"

says, Kiara Field"Staff rather"

Alan Grimm is trying to put PDA-Kiara Field (Scientist) on Kiara Field!

Alan Grimm is trying to remove Kiara Field's scientist labcoat!

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "Elenor you know i never laid a hand on you"

says, Kiara Field""elenor you know i never laid a hand on you

Alan Grimm puts PDA-Kiara Field (Scientist) into the satchel.

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "None of us did"

says, Kiara Field""none of us did

[Common]Eleanor Shensays, "I was brought into medical with third degree burns."

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "The fact that im in processing is disgusting"

says, Kiara Field""the fact that im in processing is disgusting

asks, Henderson Minnie"Ya know, Assault on a head of staff could be considered held until transfer right?"

says, Kiara Field"I am aware"

says, Henderson Minnie"So, why-"

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "Tell the crew how i assaulted you captain"

says, Kiara Field""tell the crew how i assaulted you captain

quietly, Henderson Minnie""The captain is mobilizing the priest against us

softly, Henderson Minnie""I heard.

[Common]Eleanor Shensays, "You tortured me you're a horrid person..."

softly, Kiara Field""He must die then

[Common]Kiara Fieldasks, "And how did i do so captain?"

asks, Kiara Field""and how did i do so captain?

[Common]Eleanor Shensays, nods. "Fire."

says, Kiara Field""explain to us how that happened

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "Explain to us how that happened if you would"

says, Kiara Field""explain to us how that happened if you would

says, Alan Grimm"Borg"

says, Alan Grimm"I need her processed"

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "Then explain why one of our own is in custody, when they were not involved"

says, Kiara Field""then explain why one of our own is in custody, when they were not involved

[Common]Eleanor Shensays, "You draw in your own blood, it's sick. I owe you no explanation."

queries, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"What do you wish this unit to do?"

says, Alan Grimm"Come"

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "I believe you owe everyone an explanation for your bigotry"

says, Kiara Field""i believe you owe everyone an explanation for your bigotry

[Common]F.A.T.H.E.Rstates, "Possible false imprionment detected. Explanations requested."

KIRBY:we can't activate the timer

KIRBY:no hands

Alan Grimm:Ask the ai

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Please be safe"

says, Kiara Field"Wait"

K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E:we totaly can

The locker has been unlocked by KIRBY.

says, Kiara Field"I will require my bible"

The locker has been locked by K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E.

The locker has been locked by KIRBY.

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "I am being held and denied my religious text"

says, Kiara Field""i am being held and denied my religious text

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "Despite requesting it politely and calmly"

says, Kiara Field""despite requesting it politely and calmly

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "This is truly disgusting bigotry"

says, Kiara Field""this is truly disgusting bigotry

[Common]Kiara Fieldsays, "I am formally requesting for a second time to have my religious text released to my person"

says, Kiara Field""i am formally requesting for a second time to have my religious text released to my person

[Common]Alan Grimmsays, "Detective is rogue"

[Common]Henderson Minniesays, "If ya wanna come back and help, I'd love that"

[Common]Eleanor Shenshouts, "PRIEST! To the brig!"

[Common]Henderson Minnieshouts, "Help me, brothers, in security!"

says, Kiara Field"Knowledge"

queries, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"Is there an problem?"

says, Kiara Field"I want my religious texts"

says, Eleanor Shen"You will not get them."

says, Kiara Field"It is my right"

states, K.N.O.W.L.E.D.G.E"This unit does not have your religious texts"

says, Eleanor Shen"They are being given to the Priest to be purified by fire."

 

 

So a couple of things to point out here due to semantics on Matts part, keep these in mind. I refered to my cult book as a religious trinket, a bible, and religious texts. As a side note, Henderson Minnie set off an EMP rune, and the captain called for a priest. I feel that this is Meta, and mention it in my future ahelp. You can see that when she calls for a priest, she isn't doing so in a "i need guidance" way, but a "I need your abilities to deal with this new problem" way, the same way one would call sec to deal with a hostile situation. A priest was called to deal with an EMP/cultist, which the player KNOWS is a cultist due to her previous attempted conversion.


So onto my ahelps. Now again, keep in mind that I have so far referred to my cult book as a religious text, a bible, and a religious trinket. Every time i requested them, i was ignored, and once flat out denied, being told by the captain that the priest had to "cleanse it with fire." Remember before when i told you that the cult book was not used during the interaction with the captain. She had no reason to believe that a book on my person had the power to do anything besides be a book. I've been told in the past by a mod whose name i can't remember that, when arrested, it's my right to retain my religious trinkets, and when asked for them, security is supposed to supply them. The following is the crux of my complaint, and it's VERY confusing because again, Matt wanted to play semantics.

 

 

PM to-: i guess im not getting my religous text, i think im supposed to talk to you guys when this happens


Staff

Your adminhelp will be tended by mattatlas. Please allow the staff member a minute or two to write up a response.

-- Click the Moderator's name to reply --


: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas... Religious text?

to : MattAtlas my cult book. another mod told me that its required that im allowed to have my religious trinkets while in lockup

to : MattAtlas also, it seems kind of meta as hell for the captain to go get the priest considering we have done nothing so far, and i dont think they would know that a priest would be effective

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Do you know who put you in a cell?

to : MattAtlas knowledge and another borg, and alan was there as well

to : MattAtlas shes actively calling for a priest now, over an emp. this makes no sense

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas But, you did try to convert the Captain earlier in the round, and were saying some pretty culty shit.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Well, more than culty, deranged, and you also said it was a religious thing multiple times.

to : MattAtlas yeah, but calling a priest implys that the priest can actually do anything about it, which they wouldnt know anything about unless they are metagaming

to : MattAtlas the priest isnt a tool like sec, its a standalone player that just so happens to have tools effective against the cult

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas I don't see the captain actively saying it's a cult either.

to : MattAtlas and yet she called for a priest

:

[Moderator PM]MattAtlas As for your cult tome, the cyborgs who put you into the cell didn't know where you had it, so they took off your backpack. You can bring it up to them ICly.

to : MattAtlas i just asked, and the captain told me im not getting them. they have to be purified by fire by a priest apparently

to : MattAtlas compeltely not meta at all here

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas According to the captain, you explained to them that the book is what taught you the unholy magic that you used to try to convert the Captain (which if I may add, is a very painful experience with multiple messages about pain and Nar'Sie invading every corner of your mind) and you specifically refered to your tome in the explanation.

to : MattAtlas no, i said i found a book in a library, i never said that it was that specific book

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas According to the captain, you had told them that you found an ancient tome in an ancient library that revealed to you the secrets of the universe. And after you tortured them with this knowledge due to the rune, they chose to ban your religion. The Captain is the ultimate authority and this falls under their authority, I don't see an issue with their logic, considering the only tome you have on you is the cult tome.

to : MattAtlas but again, i never said it was that specific book, and she never saw me USE the book at all. it wasnt used to make the rune, she has no reason to believe that the book does anything or is related to her torture

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas The book is what taught you the knowledge, according to what you said. So it makes sense to ban it, if it can teach others the same knowledge.

to : MattAtlas A book, not THE book in my inventory. it was just flavor text man, and its being used to extreme meta here

to : MattAtlas no one but the priest and cult should even KNOW that the priest is nescessary here

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Again. It's not farfetched to assume that if something religious is going on a priest would know about it.

to : MattAtlas thats like summoning a unicorn to fight a ghost, its all implausable and farfetched

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlasOkay, apparently the captain didn't know the book was in your backpack and wasn't involved with it. I see what they did now, you specifically mentioned the religious texts and she said no to the religious texts, not to the book.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas You could ask the cyborg who put you in the cell to give you your book back. You should also avoid refering to it specifically as "religious texts"

to : MattAtlas thats even worse, your whole reasoning was that she specifically denied the book because i said "i found a book" and connected some dots. so shes not denying me a book that she made a stretch to deny, shes just denying me all religous texts. the reason you gave me to her reasoning doesnt even apply here

to : MattAtlas i wasnt denied a book becuase she made a stretch to deny me my book, shes just denying me all religious texts

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas That's not my reasoning. The captain didn't deny your book, the captain didn't take your book away, the captain denied you the *RELIGIOUS TEXTS* which you have refered to multiple times in your explanations involving the runes you've used to practically torture the captain.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas You yourself have said you found a book in a library that allowed you to understand this knowledge or whatever you said along those lines, it's not that far fetched to assume that it's a religious text. Had you not refered to it as religious texts then you would've probably gotten your book back. I really don't see an issue here man, and I'm not going to argue any further because it's going in circles.

to : MattAtlas you said that she wouldnt give me my *book* because meta and flavor text, then when i asked for my BOOK, which i refered to as text a few times, i was denied. and after all of her meta play, if you are going to sit here and tell me she doesnt know exactly what im talking about, you are being dishonest

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas That was a misconception I had at the beginning, the captain did not tell me she didn't know about the book. She didn't deny your book, she denied your religious texts, you asked for your religious texts not the book.

to : MattAtlas so semantics then. i get the feeling that you are intentionally word playing here, and considering the way the captain played this round, its rediculous to believe that she diddnt know exactly what i was talking about

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas I'm not word playing. I'm telling you that this isn't meta because I don't see how it could be meta.

to : MattAtlas calling a priest to deal with a cult is directly manipulating the mechanics of the game with knowledge that she doesnt possess IC. Refusing my book because i diddnt use VERY SPECIFIC words to tell her EXACTLY what i wanted to the letter is word play and dishonest on both of your parts

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas I'll tell you again. They didn't deny your book. They denied your RELIGIOUS TEXTS which you refered to MANY times as having taught you the knowledge you know.

to : MattAtlas a religious text is a book. anyone IC would know exactly what im talking about when i say religious text. i can concede the meta game play with the priest, but the book was semantics

to : MattAtlas anyone, anywhere, will know exactly what im talking about when i say religious texts. which by the way, you originally said she believed to be a book, which you later said she actually diddnt know about

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Yes, because I was not told the captain didn't know about the book. They didn't bring it up because it had no relevance and they only mentioned the religious texts.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Now. You've told the Captain your religious texts taught you this knowledge which you used to torture the captain using runes. You specifically ask for religious texts, and you're denied it, and you're claiming it's metagaming. Am I right here?

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Notice how the book isn't even involved once? The captain /doesn't/ have knowledge of the book, they have knowledge of the /religious texts/ which you have /you yourself/ mentioned various times.

to : MattAtlas religious text = book dude, everyone knows this. what do you think, i had religious scrabble? this is semantics. and you told me that she was on the lookout for a religious book that i found in a library, and yet when i asked for religious TEXTS, i was denied, because of a BOOK excuse. so what, in that one instance she knew that a religious text was a book, but then after forgot that it was a book?

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas When did I mention she was on the lookout for a religious book you found in the library? This wasn't even mentioned once.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Alright, I'm ending this ahelp here because we're both going in circles and it's evidently just not going to end. Said shit was banned for a legitimate reason, case closed.

to : MattAtlas quote "According to the captain, you explained to them that the book is what taught you the unholy magic that you used to try to convert the Captain (which if I may add, is a very painful experience with multiple messages about pain and Nar'Sie invading every corner of your mind) and you specifically refered to your tome in the explanation."

to : MattAtlas not to mention......

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Yes, and, according to you, religious texts = book, so I don't see an issue with what I said.

to : MattAtlas but YOU are telling me that religious text =/= book, and thats why i diddnt get it while i was locked up. so which is it?

to : MattAtlas religious text = book or religious text =/= book?

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas No. What I am telling you is how the captain didn't need to know about the book at all. I'm not saying that religious texts =/= book.

to : MattAtlas so then you are saying that a religous text is a book. and when i asked for my religous text, I was denied, because the captain diddnt know that a religious text = book?

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas The captain didn't know about the book, and didn't need to, and denied your request because you refered to what you had as religious texts. I don't see a book specifically mentioned.

to : MattAtlas and when i ahelped, you told me that religious text =/= book, and i need to ask for the book?


: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas What I told you is to ask for the book in your bag by refering to it as something else.

to : MattAtlas "i dont see a book specifically mentioned" and yet you just told me that a religoius text is a book

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas I'll tell you again. I am not arguing how the religious texts aren't a book. I'm arguing how the captain doesn't need to know it's a book.

to : MattAtlas the captain. of a space station. doesnt know that a text is a book. this is what you are telling me

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Also, religious texts do not have to be a book, it can be scrolls, parchments and so on.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Shit, it can be even the cult paper in your backpack.

to : MattAtlas but the captain had reason to not let me have a book remember? because i mentioned its where i learned my knowledge? so if she doesnt know text is a book somehow, she had no reason to deny my text

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas The captain didn't even know you had a book on you. It wasn't her who put you in the cell. And I have already said why she denied your texts.

to : MattAtlas when asked for religious text, by both of your reasoning, which is thin by the way and based solely in semantics, she should of thought "well, its not a book so why not, im worried about the book"

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Okay. This time for real, I'm cutting off this adminhelp. It is actually just going in circles and leading nowhere, and I am sticking with my decision.

 

 

 

So to sum this up, the captain refused to give me my religious book that they (supposedly) had no knowledge of me possessing, despite them clearly saying "i'm getting a priest to burn it" because i didn't SPECIFICALLY REFER TO IT AS A BOOK. I called it just about everything it could be called outside of directly calling it a book, I called it a bible, religious trinket, religious text, religious tomb, it was clear what i was doing and what i wanted. I was ignored, and told directly by the captain my religious text would be destroyed. By the time Matt said "if you had referred to it as a book specifically you would of got it back" my sentence was up. I had spent 20 minutes in the brig literally arguing semantics with Matt, and it kept going after i was released.

 

text

tekst/Submit

noun

1.

a book or other written or printed work, regarded in terms of its content rather than its physical form.

"a text that explores pain and grief"

synonyms: book, work, written work, printed work, document

"a text that explores pain and grief"

 

OOC, the captain knew exactly what i was talking about, because i tried to convert them and they knew i was a cultist. IC, the captain would know exactly what i'm talking about, because everyone and their mother who has ever read even one book knows that a book can be referred to as a bible, text, and tomb.


The captain had no reason to believe the book was dangerous, she never saw it used in any ritual. For all she knew (in fact, all she should of known IC) is that my "powers" were innate. Matt said i could infect others with the book, but i'm locked up in a cell. If the captain was so concerned with the book being loose for that reason, why was an investigation not launched to find the book? Why wasn't I questioned about the book? If i'm asking to have my religious text, it's fairly clear that it's in my possessions. If anyone was concerned with allowing me to retain my religious trinkets, and it was SO confusing as to where it was, why was I ignored and flat out told it would be destroyed, rather than asked where it was?


The captain knew what i was talking about, the borgs knew what i was talking about, Alan knew what i was talking about, Matt knew what i was talking about, I requested them in person to everyone involved, and even announced it over the common channel, there was no IC reason to deny the book to me, and my entire conversation with Matt was bogged in semantics, wordplay, and dishonesty, with stories and definitions changing free form. To say that I couldn't be understood because i used a very clear synonym for book is ridiculous, both IC and OOC.



As a final note, this is what, the third time as a cultist i have been denied my book while i'm in lockup? It seems to be a common tactic to ignore the cultist asking for their religious book, and let ahelps run the timer out, or let the round end resolve it, or just feign ignorance as to where the book is. Its happened enough and in so specific of a way that im sure im not the first to deal with this, and you think that ahelps would be more straightforward in this regard.

Link to comment

I'm going to put the screenshots of the relevant adminhelps to my following points here.


https://imgur.com/a/mY9fr


Notice how you said "book" various times here? It's not a tomb. You've specifically said book in these admin PMs, and the captain's reply confirms it. This mention is going to be very important later on.


At the start of the round, you tried converting the Captain, which is a very painful experience for the Captain. This is all fine up to this point, the Captain was later escorted out of science and everything was good.


After that, let's skip up to the part where you adminhelped. By this point, the Captain knew a few things:

1) You found an ancient tome in an ancient library that revealed you the secrets of the universe. Refer to the imgur album.

2) These secrets of the universe were mentioned before the ritual where you tortured the Captain. Refer to the imgur album.

3) You've openly said that what you've done relates to religion.

At this point it is not unreasonable to assume that these secrets of the universe are what granted you the ability to do these rituals and that religious shit is going on - which is why the priest was called. You've also mentioned that what you are doing is related to religion various times to the Captain, and she heard you. About the tome - you've said it revealed you the secrets of the universe, and thus it is tied to the religious shit that is going on.


When you asked the Captain for your religious texts (which, for the sake of clarity, let's say it is the tome you refered to earlier on), why would she give them to you? You've basically tortured her, why would she give you your tome?


says, Kiara Field"I want my religious texts"

says, Kiara Field"I will require my bible"

A bible isn't far from a tome. It is a reasonable assumption to make that the bible is, in fact, the tome.

So to sum this up, the captain refused to give me my religious book that they (supposedly) had no knowledge of me possessing

says, Kiara Field"I will require my bible"

 

it's my right to retain my religious trinkets

The Captain can nullify this right. They're the ultimate authority on the installment, it is not written in stone that you must have your religious trinkets.

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Being present at the time, I didnt really see why you made such a huge fuss out of this.


You found something that expanded your knowledge of the universe and all that, and you turned into your religion, where you converted others to your cause to share the broad knowledge that you had been blessed with.


Now, you tried sharing with the Captain, but the Loyalty implant wouldnt have any of that, so what you ended up with there was excruciating torture for the Captain, making them see, hear and feel all sorts of horrors to the point where they could reasonably have lost their mind.


Now the next bit is pretty simple: You get your ass detained for harming the Captain to medical knows what extent, and you get put in a cell. You then demand your religious doodads, which was now basically branded as monstrisities, pain and misery from the Captain's side, hence ordering their destruction.


Now, I really dont see why this would be considered meta, because

1) Your infinite knowledge had the Captain tortured beyond reason.

2) The brig is not a spa and resort, it is punishment for commiting a crime.


The Captain was well within their right to deny you your religious trinkets because they are the ultimate authority on station, and you did infact torment said holder of ultimate authority.


Although you should be given religious whatnots during normal circumstances, this was anything but.

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Like i said in the Ahelps, i can concede that the priest wasn't meta, i don't necessarily agree with it but i can see how it could be considered fine.


My problem was with the wordplay and semantics that was somehow used to keep me from getting my book, because i didn't see the specific password "book" and do the secret handshake.


If command needs an engineer to open a door, and because command says "door" and not "airlock", does it excuse the engineer from trouble when he doesn't comply? If the HoS tells a sec officer to apply "restraints" and because he didn't use the exact phrasing "handcuffs" and the criminal gets away, is the sec officer now free from review, because instead of using his brain, he sat there twiddling his thumbs pondering the meaning of "restraints"?

 

tome

[tohm]

noun

a book, especially a very heavy, large, or learned book.


a volume forming a part of a larger work.

 

bible

noun bi·ble \ ˈbī-bəl \

Definition of bible

a : the sacred scriptures of Christians comprising the Old Testament and the New Testament

b : the sacred scriptures of some other religion (such as Judaism)

 

Again, my problem was with the unnecessary semantics. The captain and borgs each knew exactly what i was referring to both OOC and IC, this wasn't an issue of genuine confusion in either OOC IC, because of some poor wording on my part, it was an outright refusal or simply ignoring on theirs. Im not a mod and im not going to assume to tell you what your job is, but i would think that when Ahelped, the mod would normally when being amicable, poke those guys and remind them that its required that i have my religious BOOK, not engage in a 30+ minute conversation on semantics and definitions that I can only assume was for the lulz based on the direction it went. Telling me that no one knows what im talking about because I used a synonym, much less a captain, who has to have played the game for a while now and have a good understanding of the mechanics involved, is again disingenuous on Matts part.


 

why would she give me my book

 

Because IC, she had no reason to believe that the book held any power beyond being a book. Again, it wasn't used in the ritual, and it didn't display any powers above the norm. The torture was performed using a symbol etched in blood. If anything, i should of been placed in a straight jacket if she was worried about me using any mystic powers.

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As a side note, you are arguing now that the captain wouldn't want to give me the book because i tortured her, but during the ahelps your reasoning was that no one could seem to understand me because i was using synonyms, see:

 

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlasOkay, apparently the captain didn't know the book was in your backpack and wasn't involved with it. I see what they did now, you specifically mentioned the religious texts and she said no to the religious texts, not to the book.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas You could ask the cyborg who put you in the cell to give you your book back. You should also avoid refering to it specifically as "religious texts"

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas That's not my reasoning. The captain didn't deny your book, the captain didn't take your book away, the captain denied you the *RELIGIOUS TEXTS* which you have refered to multiple times in your explanations involving the runes you've used to practically torture the captain.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas You yourself have said you found a book in a library that allowed you to understand this knowledge or whatever you said along those lines, it's not that far fetched to assume that it's a religious text. Had you not refered to it as religious texts then you would've probably gotten your book back. I really don't see an issue here man, and I'm not going to argue any further because it's going in circles.

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas I'll tell you again. They didn't deny your book. They denied your RELIGIOUS TEXTS which you refered to MANY times as having taught you the knowledge you know.

 

You are also working on the assumption that the captain is saying they are going to burn religious texts that aren't on station, or that the captain is going to burn the book that she doesn't know exists and is in my bag. A book that she really doesn't know actually DOES anything IC. I didn't use the book in front of her, i didn't shake it around while chanting during her torture, i didn't whip it out and scribe a rune with it in front of her, she walked in right on the heels of a successful conversion. If we are looking at this IC, the book just opened up my mind to the religion, and I ran with that and got my powers through the persuit of said religion, assuming that the book is the source of my powers is slightly meta, which i wouldn't really say if it weren't for the other things the captain did, like call for a priest to respond to an EMP attack. This is even supported IC, if you reread my conversation with the captain which i posted and you RE posted, you can see that i say specifically that reading the book opened my mind to the universe, but there's nothing saying that the book is the source of my power, or even if its the same book in my possessions.


It could be argued that no one knows i have the book, but i really doubt it. I was arrested, and my things were searched. Allan would of mentioned I have this book, and knew of its existence when I asked for it during my confinement. Alan had NO idea that the book had anything to do with the attack and didn't turn it over. The borgs just flat out ignored me.


Prate i can understand the confusion behind my being frustrated about this, but this is on the heels of at least three other incidents where Ive been denied my book under different circumstances, and by the time im done with the IC interactions and the Ahelps, my sentence is done or a shuttle is called, and its too late. You yourself was involved in one of these incidents if i remember correctly.


The captain can outlaw my religion on station, but i really doubt that she can tell me what religion im personally allowed to partake in, and im not going to be spreading my religion from the interior of a jail cell, and with no real IC reason to believe that the book actually does anything besides teach you about a new religion, I just dont see any reason to withhold it, outside of "OOC i know that this book makes runes, there's no wat that im giving them the book." you mention that the text could be the paper in my bag, and you are absolutely right, it COULD be, which is even MORE of a reason to allow me to have the book itself. Yes, she "didn't know i have a book on me" except she threatened to burn said texts, texts that she didn't know existed apparently, so couldn't burn. Then she made no attempt to find said texts. Didn't search my belongings which would be a reasonable place to look. That's because she knew it was in my bag and safely locked up, and denied me access to it.

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My problem was with the wordplay and semantics that was somehow used to keep me from getting my book, because i didn't see the specific password "book" and do the secret handshake.

 

Where are the wordplay and semantics? My entire point during the admin PMs was that the Captain denied you your religious texts because you have mentioned that the religious texts gave you your knowledge on the religion which you have admitted to having used to torture her. That's it, that is my entire point that I tried to convey in admin PMs. What I told you is that you could have refered to it as a recreative book and lied to the Captain to get it, but maybe I was unclear on that part, and I apologize if I misled you.

 

You are also working on the assumption that the captain is saying they are going to burn religious texts that aren't on station, or that the captain is going to burn the book that she doesn't know exists and is in my bag.

You asked the Captain for your religious texts when you were in the cell, so your religious texts had to be in the locker inside the cell. As to why she said she wants to burn them (which she didn't actually do), refer to my previous points.

 

and with no real IC reason to believe that the book actually does anything besides teach you about a new religion,

You admitted to doing religious rituals to the Captain. Which would be connected to this religion, which is enough reasoning to not give you the book while you are spending 10 minutes in a cell as a punishment for assaulting the Captain.

 

Then she made no attempt to find said texts. Didn't search my belongings which would be a reasonable place to look. That's because she knew it was in my bag and safely locked up, and denied me access to it.

She didn't search your belongings because it wasn't her who arrested you. It would've been up to the borgs and the other present security staff. When she said "purify the book by fire", she didn't actually do it. Humans can say rash shit sometimes, it happens.

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Where are the wordplay and semantics?

 

I quoted those in the previous message, in the spoiler. that wasn't the entire conversation that revolved around semantics, just part of it.

 

My entire point during the admin PMs was that the Captain denied you your religious texts because you have mentioned that the religious texts gave you your knowledge on the religion which you have admitted to having used to torture her.

 

Actually, if we are being strict with the IC text, I said that I found a book in a library that gave me the knowledge

 

says, Kiara Field"I was digging thorugh an old library"

says, Kiara Field"And found an ancient tome"

 

, and then later requested my texts

 

says, Kiara Field"I will require my religious trinkets while i am in confinement

says, Kiara Field"I will require my bible"

says, Kiara Field""i am formally requesting for a second time to have my religious text released to my person"

 

. In the Ahelp, you made it pretty clear that in your eyes, there's a difference between the two, and I should elaborate on it

: [Moderator PM]MattAtlas Notice how the book isn't even involved once? The captain /doesn't/ have knowledge of the book, they have knowledge of the /religious texts/ which you have /you yourself/ mentioned various times.

. It seems to kind of bounce back and forth, when i'm asking the captain for it, i need to refer to it specifically as a book, but in the captain's eyes, its all the same thing, but in the ahelp when you explain the captains reasoning, it's not? This all gets really unnecessarily confusing, and it could all be avoided if we all just agreed to use our common sense and understand what is being referred to when im saying "religious text" or "bible" etc.

 

What I told you is that you could have refered to it as a recreative book and lied to the Captain to get it, but maybe I was unclear on that part, and I apologize if I misled you.

 

I'm honestly sorry as well, i could of been more clear in the ahelps, i was just getting frustrated with the situation, and again, this has been a recurring problem in the past, and it can be hard to be straightforward and clear when i'm frustrated. It's something i will work on in the future. I got arrested, was denied my book, and got tied up in ahelps and thought "oh hell this again, god fucking damnit" and communication wasn't as straightforward as it could of been.


However, i do still feel that this was unnecessarily complicated. A situation that, when common sense was applied, could've been a 5 min max scenario stretched into 30 or so minutes with no satisfactory resolution one way or the other, simply because all parties decided that they forgot what synonyms are, and played the "what, book? she asked for a TEXT. what does she want, an sms?" game. Everyone involved knew what was being referred to, knew where it was, and unfortunately, were allowed to slightly meta and deny my character the book, then played the literal game to get out of it in Ahelps, and instead of you saying "come on now, you know what he is talking about, quit being coy", you played along, and overlooked things like how the captain didn't even have an IC reason to believe the book should be revoked, despite me actually being clear about that in Ahelp.

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I think I know what happened here. I'm rather sure it was a miscommunication on both our ends. I'll try to reiterate my logic.

 

. In the Ahelp, you made it pretty clear that in your eyes, there's a difference between the two, and I should elaborate on it

The point I was trying to make is how the Captain didn't need to know it was specifically religious texts, my point was that it isn't unreasonable to assume that the book you found earlier in the library could have been the bible you requested, or the religious texts. The second point is that the Captain knows that your religion was involved in what you did to her in the misc testing room - so why would she let you have anything related to your religion?

 

and overlooked things like how the captain didn't even have an IC reason to believe the book should be revoked, despite me actually being clear about that in Ahelp.

The main reason for the Captain to deny your book is how you've mentioned it is religious, and you've connected the religion to the ritual you've done to the Captain. I'm not saying that you should've refered to it as specifically a book, I was unclear here and I apologize - it is my fault, I meant that you should've lied about the book in a way to make it seem like it wasn't connected to the religion.

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it is my fault, I meant that you should've lied about the book in a way to make it seem like it wasn't connected to the religion.

 

this makes more sense, and if i'm honest with myself it is a conclusion i should of came up with myself IC, and I need to work on my RP in tight situations. I think i understand what happened now. Really, i should of approached this angle on my own, and if/when i was denied, then ahelp on the dubiousness of having a reason to withhold the book. I apologize for any hostility and frustration from myself in ahelps and in the staff complaint.


I still maintain that the captain really had no IC cause to withhold my book, based on the fact that its only link to her torture is being the teachings of my religion. To beat a dead horse, it wasn't involved in any torture, there was no real IC reason to deny it to me on the basis that it is dangerous for me to have it. In my eyes, a comparable scenario is the outlaw of christian healing, and when a roadside preacher is seen slapping the hell out of a cripple to heal them, and is jailed, denying them their bible. Yeah, he had one on him, but it wasn't involved- nor was their any real reason to believe- that the bible was instrumental to the assault, or the assault was accomplished with the bible. The bible opened the preacher's eyes to the religion, but any powers would be innate to the preacher himself unless witnessed to have come from his bible directly. If you were to ask the cripple who was assaulted if the preacher should have his bible, the cripple wouldn't really have any reason to deny him it, as it's not dangerous, in his eyes it's just teachings of a religion the preacher is already involved in, bible or no at this point. If the preacher hit the cripple with the bible, or in view of the cripple, opened the book, slit his finger, and drew a rune in blood while chanting FROM the bible which then proceeded to torture the cripple, then yeah, i could see reason to deny the preacher his bible.


In my eyes, the captains tactical use of the preacher in the round kind of reinforces this "meta" play in my eyes. Admins might not agree, but in my eyes directly calling a priest to handle an EMP is just irrational, especially when there are more reasonable explanations for an electromagnetic pulse besides "devils did it, call the pastor". Calling a pastor to gain insight to the situation would be understandable, but the way he was called over comms kind of suggests a tactical deployment of holy power. Maybe logs between pastor and captain would clarify one way or another, as i'm reading into limited context here, and i feel that the crux of my argument is slight meta play from captain.


If this is something that yourself and mediators determine to still be acceptable play, ill accept it and work on remembering this when I play cult in future rounds.

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Being present at the time, I didnt really see why you made such a huge fuss out of this.


You found something that expanded your knowledge of the universe and all that, and you turned into your religion, where you converted others to your cause to share the broad knowledge that you had been blessed with.


Now, you tried sharing with the Captain, but the Loyalty implant wouldnt have any of that, so what you ended up with there was excruciating torture for the Captain, making them see, hear and feel all sorts of horrors to the point where they could reasonably have lost their mind.


Now the next bit is pretty simple: You get your ass detained for harming the Captain to medical knows what extent, and you get put in a cell. You then demand your religious doodads, which was now basically branded as monstrisities, pain and misery from the Captain's side, hence ordering their destruction.


Now, I really dont see why this would be considered meta, because

1) Your infinite knowledge had the Captain tortured beyond reason.

2) The brig is not a spa and resort, it is punishment for commiting a crime.


The Captain was well within their right to deny you your religious trinkets because they are the ultimate authority on station, and you did infact torment said holder of ultimate authority.


Although you should be given religious whatnots during normal circumstances, this was anything but.

Not reading all of this, but.


Essentially this. You explained to Eleanor you found a tome in an ancient library, and then tried to convert here only like 20 minutes into the round while she was loyalty implanted. I entered medical with 60+ burn damage, and my hallucinations lasted for 10+ minutes, and I had to get a prescription to keep myself calm.


Eleanor ICly, had no desire to let your religion continue on, when I was asked about your religious text, I told the person/borg processing you to take it away and burn it, because it was related to my torture.

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As for me using the Priest, I consulted them because I was tortured and got 6+ purple cult texts of a dark unspeakable horror God in the void.


I never had him exorcise anyone, I had him study the marks because I for all intents and purposes, was convinced you were fucking satanists. You tortured me with dark magic, and she believed it. I am not obligated to be a sceptic after such an event.

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Well i was reading into very limited context, if that is what happened i don't see anything wrong with it.


Your explanation for why my book should be withheld still isnt very satisfactory to me personally however.


As a side note, i do want to give you kudos for RPing with me as captain. You really caught me off guard when you actually accepted my original offer. This isnt directed at any particular captain, lots of them do it, but most would of gave me a terse 2 word reply and moved on without giving me any time to respond.

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  • 2 weeks later...


Your explanation for why my book should be withheld still isnt very satisfactory to me personally however.

 

Looks pretty reasonable to me. There was a clear connection to be made between your book and the spooky stuff that happened to the captain. I do not feel any action needs to be taken here. I will consider this resolved and i will lock and archive it within 24 hours.

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