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Retain The Head of Personnel's Ancient Claims Over Janitoria


Guest Marlon Phoenix

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...Is it too much of a big deal for you to whine about a Janitor that no one pays attention to and no one other than @Menown bothers playing...


...I say that we're not sissies and we can cope the change for a month, and those whom can't are merely impatient and ungrateful people...


...As for the other hand, Janitors can be considered as not engineers in some work forces. I can tell by reading this thread twice that everyone's view of the janitor/custodian is all they do is mop the floor, fix the lighting, assist people with sanitation...

 

I'll be working my way down these three points.


1) I do appreciate you bringing notice to the fact that the change is okay, despite the fact I'm apparently the only one affected by it. Fuck me, right? /s

There are different people that play janitorial. I am not all of them. Just because I play it the most, doesn't mean I'm the only one affected.


2) I might be a sissy, who are you to judge? Do I not have a right to complain over this, even though my play was actually affected by these changes? The point of this discussion is to figure out the proper way to proceed, as these changes were put forth without a vote or anything by anybody that actually plays the job, or would be affected by the changes.


3) My view of janitors is that there are different janitors for different jobs. Janitorial is typically a low-skill labor force whose primary focus is to maintain hygiene in different settings, with some of them having a more technical aspect, such in the case of those tasked with minor electrical work and basic repairs. Some janitors do only mop floors, empty trash, and stock bathrooms. That's literally what I do every single day. I've never even had to replace a light as it's maintenance staff that does that due to the facility having their own maintenance staff, like NT does. I don't even clean-up biohazard spills unless I desire to, I'm supposed to call a certain number and my work sends out a team of people thoroughly trained in this to do it.


There are two positions in my company, regarding the janitorial force. We have the basic cleaners that handle trash, mopping, window washing, restocking bathrooms, dusting, ect. Then we have the crew that handles the large scale industrial-type shit like stripping floors, waxing them, and maintaining the long-term appearance of the facilities that the daily janitors don't handle. They repair our broken equipment and handle restocking of our janitorial supplies. We don't handle vending machines, or anything. Only restocking bathroom supplies such as toilet paper, towels, soap, ect.


My stance on this is firm. Allow two different departments of janitors with different responsibilities pertaining to their departments. Engineering custodians handle the halls and main departments, as well as biohazard clean-up, while service janitors handle the service areas under the HoP's command. That appeases both sides, I'd say.

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[mention]Menown[/mention]'s idea would even appease those such as [mention]Azande[/mention], who want some kind of upward mobility for a job meant to not really have upward mobility. But gaining a further permissions at the workplace, applying for this mild promotion, and becoming this new "Engineer Custodian" from a mere janitor would be possible.

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The best way to handle it would be to keep the custodial engineer or technician or whatever as it is, and add a cleaner/janitor to service that has the simple cart and supplies, and access to its own closet only. That'd emphasize its duty for cleaning the service and supply department only.

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Regardless of the outcome eventually reached, two different roles that serve the same function will not be maintained. If the janitor remains in engineering and the HoP just desperately needs to be directly in charge of someone cleaning the station, then they can simply grant an assistant access to the surface level closet. If the janitor is moved back to civilian then there is no difficulty. Redundancy in roles is to be avoided, not encouraged.

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Regardless of the outcome eventually reached, two different roles that serve the same function will not be maintained. If the janitor remains in engineering and the HoP just desperately needs to be directly in charge of someone cleaning the station, then they can simply grant an assistant access to the surface level closet. If the janitor is moved back to civilian then there is no difficulty. Redundancy in roles is to be avoided, not encouraged.

 

You're missing the point of my suggestion here. I'm saying the HoP could have somebody to clean their department only, leaving the engineering custodian to handle minor repairs of the station itself as well as wide-spread cleaning like biohazards and the hallways, using the equipment you created.

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I agree that this is a conversation that should still be had. While all of the neat new stuff is pretty awesome, I personally don't have my janitor being the sort that uses it. They do it old school. It feels a bit like a power creep situation we're in. The new janitor style is a billion times more efficient, but it takes away from what we've had "janitor" be in the past.


So. Custodial Engineers. Janitors. Superpower cleaner men for specific circumstances. The guy that mops the bathroom and keeps the bar from being full of cigarette butts. The same reason we have Surgeons and Medical Doctors. They CAN overlap, but each has priority under certain circumstances.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Conspiir, your analogy doesn't hold up because surgeons and medical doctors are just different alt-titles for the same role. Their functions in the game, though flavored differently, are still largely the same - with good reason. And for the same reason, janitors shouldn't be separated into one "custodial engineer" and one lowly sweeper class. They do the same thing. If you want to do it differently, just play it differently. The janitor still has a mop and bucket; you don't have to strap on engineering colors and breach&clear every room with cleaner grenades.


Additionally, it would be excessive if there were any more slots for the role of cleaning the station (which would be necessary if a new job were created). Instead of having two janitors who are moderately busy all the time, you'd have two sanitation engineers and two custodians who, altogether, barely have anything to do at all.

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Conspiir, your analogy doesn't hold up because surgeons and medical doctors are just different alt-titles for the same role. Their functions in the game, though flavored differently, are still largely the same - with good reason.

 

This isn't true, given our lovely medical reform right over here. It states that surgeons can perform surgeries medical doctors are unable to. And on top of that, medical doctors CAN perform SOME surgeries, but Surgeons get called first. They aren't the same thing. They are specialized.


Mainly, still a bit wonky to think of the janitors we've known and made characters for being bumped up. Like if you have a doctor who suddenly became a surgeon in one day due to "situation" but still wants to retain their medical doctor status because that's where the character's knowledge is. That's what I'm saying.

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The logical conclusion to your argument, in your best-case scenario, would be to add an alt-title to janitor that ostensibly reports to the HoP (and possibly give them a service radio to suit this). Since the comparison you're making is one where the supposed problem was solved with an alt-title.


Which honestly sounds like a reasonable solution. Let the janitor choose who to report to just by the radio they pick up, so people who want to play it either way can be satisfied. It'd be a novel case of interdepartmental collaboration, but I don't see that it would be particularly damaging in any way.


And if the HoP in a given round wants a janitor, they can just tell the janitor to be on their side for a bit. It's not like chief engineers are generally desperate to keep their cleaners on a tight leash.

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The logical conclusion to your argument, in your best-case scenario, would be to add an alt-title to janitor that ostensibly reports to the HoP (and possibly give them a service radio to suit this). Since the comparison you're making is one where the supposed problem was solved with an alt-title.


Which honestly sounds like a reasonable solution. Let the janitor choose who to report to just by the radio they pick up, so people who want to play it either way can be satisfied. It'd be a novel case of interdepartmental collaboration, but I don't see that it would be particularly damaging in any way.

 

Again, the best way to handle it is a janitor for the service area and the custodial/sanitation engineers for engineering. The engineering janitors handle major biohazards like vines, kois, ect and keep all of the industrial supplies like the trolley and backpacks, while the service janitor has the typical cart and supplies to handle cleaning of the departments under the HoP's authority.

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Vines and kois, major biohazards in general, aren't present enough to carry an entire role. My point stands that if half the function of a janitor is upgraded to its own role and the other half is downgraded to its own role, what you'll end up with is two roles which barely have anything to do.


Especially since the real biohazards - vines, kois, and blobs - can barely be fought by janitors and need to be torched by engineers instead. The idea that janitors can even fix those events is an wishful thought not grounded in reality.


So by your suggestion, we'd end up with at least one janitor who's supposed to do normal janitor things (but is now slightly worse at it) and at least one janitor who's supposed to help with major biohazards (and is completely useless because of it)

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