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Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#1
https://github.com/Aurorastation/Aurora.3/pull/5247

Adjusts some of the gamemode required players and enemies so that the gamemodes themselves are more interesting.

Reasonings:
A single vamp/changeling isn't enough to provide the round with actual RP.
Cult should require 9 players given it's objective, and slightly more starting cult members.
Heist needs an increase in required players. 12 players means that there are 4 heist members and 8 crewmembers. This isn't fun.
Malfunction should require significantly more players than just 2.
Ninja should require significantly more players than just 1.
Merc had a rare occurrence where there could only be 1 nuke op.
Rev should have a higher player requirement. 4 players is nothing.
Wizard should have significantly more players than just 1.
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Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#2
-1 from me. Lowers the ratio of antags-to-normal character requirement too much, guts a lot of gamemodes from being possible during lowpop hours (and since the summer slump p much just started), it makes many gamemodes a lot more iffy to get started since many people join after roundstart since their job slot was taken or whatever reason, and is generally just bad and not needed.

Though I would not mind the higher requirements for heist, but that's pure bias.

Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#4
Alright so straight off the bat we have people -1 in a project thread and not knowing what they're talking about. Lets nip this in the bud.
Trazz666 wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 8:03 am
-1 from me. Lowers the ratio of antags-to-normal character requirement too much, guts a lot of gamemodes from being possible during lowpop hours (and since the summer slump p much just started), it makes many gamemodes a lot more iffy to get started since many people join after roundstart since their job slot was taken or whatever reason, and is generally just bad and not needed.

Though I would not mind the higher requirements for heist, but that's pure bias.
Ratios of antags are handled in a special way inside the code. There are variables that dictate the ratio of antags to players. For example I think the ratio of traitors to non traitors for autotraitor is either 6 or 9, despite the current required traitor count and current required player count not reflective of that ratio, and that's fine because it's roundstart and there should always be a minimum amount of antags regardless of desired ratios.

However even without that mechanic, there are 0 gamemodes that have seriously skewed ratios from before except for wizard and ninja (well, because 1:1 is greater than 1:6). This is a non-compliant. The gutting of the gamemodes is completely intentional. All those gamemodes are REALLY bad for lowpop. Their core design does not work for lowpop. AI is not good with a minimum of 2 people. Ninja isn't good with 2 people. Wizard isn't good with 2 people.
CommanderXor wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:00 am
Normally I would be in support of such an idea, however, I must side with Trazz. The current population means lowpop is going to be secret-extended every round.

Until the player base increases during low-pop I can not be in favour of this. -1
This is not how it works. This is not how anything works. If you have less game modes it doesn't mean you have more chances to pick secret extended. It's all weighed meaning that secret extended will have the same chance of getting picked compared to other gamemodes. Nothing changed about it's weight.
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Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#5
*shrug* I like it. Our pop's not been THAT low to completely shut this down. I've seen a manifest of like 4 people MAYBE.... three times? Happens around the 8am CST time. If your pop's at four people then... well.... antag gimmicks aren't going to be all that great anyways.

+1.Gamemodes needs better balance and this isn't a bad fix.
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Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#6
I think it's a pretty good shift. I agree that one or two vamps/lings in a manifest of 20-30 is just not enough. Most of these seem pretty good for minimums; maybe vamp/ling won't be a total snorefest.

Will these affect mixed rounds and/or do you have any plans to alter those? Or are they good enough as they are?

I support this.
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Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#7
BurgerBB wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:04 pm
Alright so straight off the bat we have people -1 in a project thread and not knowing what they're talking about. Lets nip this in the bud.
CommanderXor wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 10:00 am
Normally I would be in support of such an idea, however, I must side with Trazz. The current population means lowpop is going to be secret-extended every round.

Until the player base increases during low-pop I can not be in favour of this. -1
This is not how it works. This is not how anything works. If you have less game modes it doesn't mean you have more chances to pick secret extended. It's all weighed meaning that secret extended will have the same chance of getting picked compared to other gamemodes. Nothing changed about it's weight.
No, that's a straight up lie. When secret is rolled, the game picks from a pool of what it can. Each game mode has the minimum amount of players needed for it, and if there isn't that many on, it will not pick it. Let us look at the current player requirements for each game mode. Of course, barring the mixed game modes.
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As we can see, you can play quite a few game modes during low pop. Granted they may not be the best but with a good antag you can spin a good story. Now, I've gone ahead and edited the image to show your new suggestion. The changes you've proposed have been done in red.
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Notice how that if you have less than 6 players, the only two game modes the server will ever roll will be extended and traitor? Yeah. This means that low-pop rounds with less than <6 players will do nothing but extended or traitor. I can't support this idea when it utterly fucks over everyone when the sun goes down for the playerbase and they go to sleep. Granted, this may not seem like a big issue for people who play during high-pop.

But for people like me, and other Aussies and the likes, we can only really play during low-pop, and to have all options barring traitor and extended be barred, it isn't fun.

So I still stand by my decision to -1 this.
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Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#8
Yeah, looking at Xor's little thing there, I'll have to -1 it too. I often play at very lowpops at times too, with one one or two other people on. It's still fun to see what traitors do in the early morning, or if there's a Ninja or Wizard at 4AM. or Malf, sometimes malf gimmicks can be fun too.

Honestly I wouldn't like to see this implemented, but I can see the appeal of '10 players is the lowest it goes so for highpop, there's be two lings instead of four' or something.

Re: Gamemode Requirement Tweaks

#10
BurgerBB wrote:
Fri Sep 14, 2018 11:13 pm
I personally don't see the problem and this is a good change.
You don't see the problem because you're in the timezone most people play on so you don't have to deal with dead-hour. However, for some of us that aren't Americans or Europeans, we have to play during dead-hour otherwise we have to stay up to 3 AM. Limiting gamemode choices like this severely hampers the non-American and non-European playerbase.
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