Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#21
ParadoxSpace wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:38 pm
Making a spear or pike really isn't that hard. Using a spear or pike really isn't that hard. Bucklers, sure, they're hard to make, but until you code forging mechanics, or until I'm stupid enough to put the shield fittings in the autolathe, you're folding it by hand. Shields aren't hard to use either. Even medieval peasants could do it.
Making a spear or pike is not easy. Can you make a spear or pike right now if someone placed a pile of metal in front of you? Because there aren't reasonably mechanics to make them right now, they need to be restricted. If you want to move them over to being produced by a (hacked) autolathe, that would be moderately acceptable. It takes a lot of time to produce things from that. But being able to make like 4 pikes and shields from a pile of metal sheets in the span of 5 minutes to arm up a militia is retarded.
ParadoxSpace wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 5:38 pm
As someone who is habitually in the interest of forming militias, militias are often formed because Security never does an adequate job of actually protecting departments and the crew in a state of code red. Cargo has to become a safe house for the poor and disenfranchised while Security is off on some asteroid Z level following around mercs. And from an antag perspective, I'd rather fight two cargo techs, four miners, the chef, and Pun Pun than have a third party ERT take me out of the round.
Hell, atleast the cargo techs ask questions first sometimes.

Edit: Also, if these things happen enough, if you knew there was no Security or ERT, why did you go alone as a juggernaut anyway? A juggernaut is useless if not screened. This seems like an 'im ded pls nerf' thread.
I didn't go in there intending to attack them on sight. I sat in a bathroom in pain crit for 15 minutes before being turned into a juggernaut by admins, left the bathroom, walked about 20 squares, and was immediately mobbed by a frenzied swarm of cargo techs and assistants. I had no grounding in the situation and was effectively ganked, and it was allowed because apparently there had just been an attack on cargo (that I knew nothing about, having been in pain crit). I think I managed to pull of one attack on a person during the melee, but they also basically chased me down with a chainsaw and pike when I was actively withdrawing? My lifespan as a juggernaut was less than 2 minutes, because I walked in the wrong direction. No questions were asked, just a mob attack.

There shouldn't have been a 'wrong direction to go' to this extent. My death should have been a result of my own poor choices to attack a mob, not because I walked down a hallway where there were people. Cargo militias are too aggressive, and that's why I made this thread.

Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#23
Side note, the engineer made those weapons. You want to tell me the engineer with all her tools can’t make a pointy stick?
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Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#25
I think there's more merit to this than people seem to give it. If I'm being honest, particularly when I play cargo, I do tend to prepare for trouble when talk of terrorists and monsters starts creeping in on comms. As a botanist I tend to keep a reserve of poppy plants as "herbal medicine" knowing full well it has bicaridine. And when things break loose I tend to hand out the plants or cargo warehouse contents or what have you. I do think we could maybe do better about powergaming on the level of each player ceasing these small and largely imperceptible things like I sometimes catch myself doing. But I think it would be a bit demanding to ask administration to keep track of things that small. How are they supposed to know if I'm stockpiling inconspicuous chekov's guns?
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Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#26
I've already given a pitch for the militia regulation in page 2. You should have read it already if you are reading this, but if for some reason, you ignored the forum thread rules and skilled ahead, here:

viewtopic.php?f=124&t=11920&start=10#p105701

I'm not interested in making this a thread about arguing my or the behavior of the mobs in the rounds I was in any father than it already is. Instead of asking me 'is this about X round' maybe we can focus on the actual topic of the thread.

Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#27
If Security can't be trusted and you're put into a "fight or flight" situation (and flight's a bit hard since you're stuck on that station until a shuttle arrives), then I don't see an issue with people arming themselves, holing up in room they deem as a "sanctuary", and trying to wait out the storm. I have no weapons training at all, but I can pick up a baseball bat and take swing at some creep.

Of course, if it's a militia just to be a militia and security can handle the situation, then yeah... that needs to be addressed. But we've already got a pretty 'set" definition of when a militia should be formed. It's when the "oh shit" moment happens and you realize you are defenseless against the very people that are there to protect you (or if they're dead.)

If Engineerings handing out spears....okay? Engineer's utilize a singularity as a power source and are basically mad scientists with a wrench. I don't see a problem in them making make-shift spears, nor do I see a problem with a civilian picking that spear up and defending themselves. Spears are so mundane, that cavemen figured it out.

So why do we need to enforce protocols when MOST of the time we see a civvy militia is because Sec can't be trusted/is dead? Those are people with wives, children and goals in life. You put them in a corner where they think they may die, or lose their God given right of self-choice and they WILL go into self-preservation mode. It's... pretty realistic. Not everyone is a coward, and in fact... you'll find a lot more people will fight for their life than hide in a locker and cry themselves to dehydration.
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Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#28
characters should have the right to defend themselves if security can't do it for them

It's also a waste of time to dictate very specific circumstances where it is or isn't allowed because guidelines for definition can be stretched very easily dependent on the situation. I'm sure neither an admin or mod wants to make it their goal to speak to 10 different people to get 10 completely different subjective opinions on whether or not a militia forming was valid during the course of a round. That's almost as wasteful of one's time as learning Latin, a dead language that nobody (religious groups aside) even speaks anymore. If you want a round where nothing happens and thus nobody does anything interesting and/or unorthodox, why not vote extended?
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Re: A call for stricter enforcement of code red protocols and self-formed civilian militia.

#29
We could simply say

Hey without training or related work experience your characters can do these things

Weapons:

- Swing a blunt weapon such as a bat or stool
- Use basic knives
Etc.

Construction:

- Throw up a wooden or metal barricade. (we’ll say plasteel is a bit advanced for the non-trained)
-construct tables and flip them
-Weld vents and lockers


Honestly a detailed ‘General Knowledge’ guide would do us a lot of good.
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