Andrean2017

Firstoff: I think that one scentence is clearly enough for everyone that the snark is, still, comming from both sides. The valve issue: Well, as you read my complaint (which I quite doubt) it's not really relevant if you where wrong on those valves or not. Thanks for your apologie ofcourse, it's not really part of the complaint. The simple question: I'm forced by those rules to respond to questions, that is already far and byond something I would be personally willing to do, because I find it a gross violation of human rights not to incriminate one self. I'm inclined to say: if you cant come up with a breach without asking questions: Don't ask them. Sadly enough, I have to comply with the rules and thus have to respond to you. Still I would like to know what breach I am suspected of. As I stated in my complaint, I try to very carefully try to abide by those rules now in regards to AI playstyle and I do take offence in sugestions of being in breach of one. Anyway, I find it relatively minor to tell a moderator I don't think anything I did has a rule against it. It has nothing to do with being "Fishing for trouble", speaking of fishing you seemed a lot on a fishing expedition in my opinion in this whole mater, that also did indeed influence my snark a lot. But still, this complaint is not about your/my general choice of words, or the snark. We both did snark a lot and if two people fight there are two wrongs. Complaints, even this one, should not be about who was the culprid but should be about big escalations that are (in the eye of the one complaining) truely unacceptable Fuckoff statement: Well it would be nice if you would've "fucked off" indeed, but thats not my call, thats my OPINION. I can have an OPINION in how maters should be solved and I can tell you that. I don't have to agree with you I have to comply why you tell me (not) to do something and I have to answer your questions. I am sorry if I formulated it like it's my call to decide that, I think it's quite clear to everyone that it ain't my call and what I wrote was my opinion. Again this is quite a minor thing and not really a big part of my complaint, As I stated we both where snarky against each other and it's not worth the trouble of fighting over who was snarking worse. Breaking it off twice I doubt your story about trying to breaking it off, I tried twice and got a new rant or complaint from you in return. Including one you fished from another round, which I didnt even know about. Thats not the behavoir of someone who tries to break things off, thats the behavoir of someone thats "trying to get you". Ofcourse I can be wrong and I cant look into your head what you where thinking, but I don't read a real act of trying to descalate and breaking it off. Dismissive and snarky You right that it's not okey to be snarky to eachother. However, I can be as dismissive as I want, I don't have to agree with you I need to do what you order me to do. It's something that has annoyed me for some time, You are not opinion police and I can fully dismiss everything you say as invalid while still being willing to follow clear requests you make. Simply put: If a police officer says you should remove a car because of rule X, you can tell him he needs to get reeducated and that it's bullshit, but still need to remove the car. He, just as you, is not the one to order you to change your opinion. You want to ask questions, then you sometimes get to hear that people think you are talking BS. TL:DR We both shouldn't have been that snarky, but I don't need to be agreeable, I will never voice any form of agreement I do not stand behind, I will instead always dispute what you or any other person is telling me if I don't agree with them. Thats "being dismissive" and that's fine. As long as it ain't too snarky, but it's thin line between disagreeing and being snarky. We both went over that one, but again thats not what this complaint is truely about. The real complaint It doesn't look like you understand the complaint, or just didn't really read it. The complaint is mainly foccussed around your choice of threatening a player out of the blue (either because he wasn't nice enough to you or you where a dick*, that doesn't mater really), something you still don't want to take any responsibility for. I admitted I should/could be less snarky and I expect same could be said for you, but this complaint isn't about two parties snarking to eachother, things hapen. But the way you escalated it by threatening me, seemingly out of anger and/or out of the blue, and the way you asked the second question as if I knowingly "tampered" with something. I, in my opinion, not moderator worthy. You keep trying to ignore that that was wrong (well you ignore it completely) and escalated things big-time. In short This complaint isn't about us being snarky, it's about two things you said that where, in my opinion, far and byond what we should accept from a moderator. You also did not respond to this essence of the complaint. I didn't try and cherry pick these things just because those suit my agenda, I picked those because I don't feel complaints should be about "two people being snarkt", thats also why I didn't file a complaint about your ban, as I wrote I undestand what you based it on although I find the way you did it not acceptable, its not complaint worthy. its basically part of "two people being snarky" ;) Footnote * I did not call you a dick, I tried to explain two possible interprentation one could have at this moment.

BYOND Key: Andrean2017Staff BYOND Key: PratepresidentenGame ID: bYa-cNyxReason for complaint: Being needlessly aggressive History: I know I have a history with wrong AI interpretations and I tryto be extra care full to act as realistic as reasonably possible. Sometimes times is of the essence and you simply cant write the RP you want, but I at least want to act as a reasonable station-wide intelligence instead of overlord, which I had the tendency to do earlier. Situation before admin contact: I was playing AI and the crewtransfer shuttle was called, as AI I try to be realistic and I like to RP a transfer with a little waiting period and thus the station going into some sort of "standby" mode. Which means the engine "spins down", the SMES unit outputs get shut down, the lights get darkened... I think that gives some extra weight even if people miss the shuttle, the station "shutting itself down" all around you. The engine spindown I do by opening the coolant valves, that sets the output to (almost) 0 and cools down the reactor chamber quite a bit faster. (Only on phoron phoron loops) Situation when admin contacted me: I got a message from a moderator "Psst..." right after (max 5 sec) I clicked "offline" at the wrong smes (core), awkwardly right at the same time I noticed the mistake, set it back online and said I indeed made a mistake and fixed it. Said moderator "Pratepresidenten" started asking why i opened the cooling valves, I explained above RP situation. While I was writing an additional scentence saying: "Thats an IC/RP issue and should be put on the forums, if it broke a rule please contact me", He responded with (in short) "don't use those valves it will cause a delamination". The messages crossed each other in a second or so (my experience, should check the logs to be sure, could be more than a few as i was writing). Here the situation escalates in a way that I find complaint worthy. Right after our messages crossed eachother I got this reply: "lmao" "Ill give you 20 seconds to fix the switches before I ban you, how does that sound?" While I did as he said, I was totally done with this aggressive threatening dude(ette) at this moment. So I tryed to, rater snarky, try to educate this person that there shouldn't be anyway that would cause a delamination. Something he hasn't cared to explain as of yet. I tried to reach general ahelp, as previously that would just end up on the ahelp instead of being a respons to the moderator in question, asking for an admin to intervene because I feel abused by threats from a moderator. Seemingly that doesnt work that way anymore, understandbly I wouldnt be the only person doing that ;) After which I got a message from this good sir/madam "not be be snarky to administration, my dude", firstoff I am not his/her "dude", never will be nor want to be. I just want pseudo-professional, rule based moderation. Anyhow that would basically be it, if you asked me. Albeit I still didn't fully comprehend where the need for threats came from. But after which this admin starts about an issue a previous round this/that day. In his opinion I had "tampered" with a SMES caused widespread power issues I had no idea what he was talking about and I admit my assumptions about what he meant caused some extra snarky replies from my side. This did indeed escalate things even more. But I did say I was sorry and would call ahelp when I encounter a bug next time, just to get rid of this person which I felt was looking for all sorts of things to blame me on. But I did want to make clear this person shouldn't start threatening people out of the blue (as he didn't even ask to change it that round before, he just complained about it and asked questions), it really is not okey. even if someone is being a fair bit snarky. It escalated even more, by me asking hem again to explain his reasoning behind the need for threatening me (the valves) or at least come up with rules that are broken next time. He then responded by just quoting the "respect the staff" rule and issuing a ban. Sadly he has some issues with the second part of that same rule: ". We do our best to be polite and courteous with you" (snark intended this time ;) ) What could I have done better: - I shouldn't have scolded him/her about his ingame know how (no mater if I was right or wrong) - I could have just asked him/her to explain instead of guessing what he/she meant. What the staffmember could have done better: - Not threatening people without clearly stating a request - Just be clear of someone broke a rule or he/she just has a question - Not assuming mall-intend from the get-go. Core issue of the complaint: - A moderator should be clear if something is a request (please change x) or an inquiry (why did you choose to do x?) - A moderator should not, without stating a broken rule, start threatening players (I ban you if you don't do x), unless it's overly obvious - Confronting people this issues from previous rounds that might have happened after said player left, should be met with caution (from both sides!) Even though I was, admittedly, snarky, the overly agressive and escalating way this person reacted was byond any of my expectations. I didn't expect this person to react friendly to a snarky remark, but I also didn't expect someone to out of the blue threaten me to fix something that wasn't even clearly requested before hand. In short, I this complaint is not about both sides being snarky, its about me feeling abused by totally unwarranted threats from a moderator that continued to harass me about previous rounds even after I complied. Evidence/logs/etc: See attachmentAdditional remarks: This issue also contained a Ban, even though i do not fully agree with that, I do not (fully) contest the ban as I was being snarky. Besides this issue is not resolved before the one day ban ends anyway. Closing statements: It's not my goal to execute "payback" to this moderator for being "unjust" or "wrong" it's my goal for people to learn when it is okey to use threats, when its not okey to use threats and how to issue them. Also I hope someone learns from this how to and how not to reflect on previous rounds in the same ahelp conversation. This conversation clearly went wrong from the get go and we both had a big part in that. But I would like moderating readers to think about a few things stated under "what * could have done better" above. In short: be clear what you want (information or someone (un)doing something) and execute caution when issuing threats and reflecting on previous rounds. log 2019-01-05 (9 28 pm).htm