Staff Complaint - Sadkermit

[Bolbos]

BYOND Key: Baldos
Staff BYOND Key: Sadkermit
Game ID: Don't Remember
Reason for complaint: Got warned for stealthily killing a person as a ling? apparently I am supposed to "say/emote some kind of veiled threat, leaving clues before you strike" according to SadKermit
Evidence/logs/etc:Don't have logs but I have the warning:
Additional remarks: Wiki says Lings are supposed to be stealthy and needs to kill for genomes, So I don't get how me killing a character stealthily is against the rules, and I don't see how I am supposed to talk or emote with people when I am an alien creature from space with the sole purpose of killing people and absorbing them without catching too much attention.

[kermit]

Helloo,

I'll refresh my explanation of why I placed the warning.

Changelings are expected to be stealthy and supposed to kill for genomes, that's totally right, and is why I commented that changeling is probably the most difficult gamemode we have here on the Aurora. Difficult, as the playstyle makes it easy to stray from the rule you got warned for: 

Quote

No ganking. While antags will sometimes kill, it is expected for you to provide interesting roleplay to your targets first, if your goal is assassination. This does not mean that you need to monologue your opponent before killing them: roleplay leading up to a murder can take place over the course of the entire round, for example, leaving the murder scene itself to be “wordless”.

You mentioned to me that, when you killed and took a genome from a character, you hadn't said a word to them at all, and just entered the room and killed them for the genome point; this forgoes the "interesting roleplay" the rule calls for. I can't remember my exact wording in my ticket explanation, though the warning recapped the important parts of what I said, which was that "interesting roleplay" doesn't need to be a drawn out monologue or anything, something as simple as, for example, a few odd mannerisms/actions, reminiscent of the body-horror theme behind changeling, while engaging with a victim – something that just grasps their attention and clues them into what may about to happen, but not be overt enough to warrant them immediately screaming 'there's someone behaving weird in the chapel'.

It's a hard balance, especially as changeling, where you're not afforded tools which can be used to better guarantee success – ie. traitor radio jammers, vampire hyponotise, cult incapacitation talismans – and I can sympathise with that, as someone who tries to regularly play the varied antag types to stay in-touch. I think a common fear antagonists have is that any clueing in will result in you being immediately outed over the Common channel, but the hope is that the majority of players will give a modicum of leeway to antagonists up until you've drawn a weapon/armblade and are willing to roleplay along with you, even if there are cases where that doesn't always happen sadly.

Edited June 1, 2023 by kermit

[Peppermint]

I'll go ahead and grab this. Should be sorted in the next few days.

[Peppermint]

From a curiosity glance this seems mostly fine. Only question I'd have to @kermit is why this was a warning over a note?

[kermit]

The usual escalation was followed for repeat incidents of the same kind: a note, then a warning.

Baldos has been spoken to a couple times this week and last about not properly roleplaying antagonist actions. Namely, one round where k'ois syringes were fired at people without the due escalation, and one round where they late-joined as a changeling just before transfer and immediately went loud.

[Peppermint]

All seems fine to me. I don't have any issues with how Kermit handled this, other than how I feel a warning is a little bit too severe due to the mitigating circumstances of the wiki article specifically saying what the player did was allowed. I'm going to drop this to a note when I get the chance.

For you, Baldos - the wiki is rather unfortunate. That said, Kermit is correct in that you are expected to give interaction to people you murder. We're a little more relaxed with ling as dead/absorbed folk get to keep playing as part of you anyway, but you still need at least a little dialogue. This doesn't mean monologing for an hour or killing in public, but at least a little roleplay before you start murdering said victim. It doesn't have to be anything elaborate.

If there's nothing else, I'll lock and archive this within a day or so.

[Bolbos]

He is correct yes, but why a warning for this? I do agree with kermit about that round where I shot people up with k'ois, but I don't see how I was wrong when I went loud as a changeling during transfer, I tried to do some interesting roleplay before the transfer ended so I don't get how that broke any rules because I didn't kill anyone and only attacked when security tried to arrest me after a bit of talking, I just stinged security and doctors with blind sting to try and make the round end more interesting while talking with them.

Edited June 3, 2023 by Bolbos

[Peppermint]

As I said in my post, I feel a warning was too much and have therefor deleted it from your file. I've replaced it with a note.

I think the crux of it here is what counts as 'interesting'. The issue with doing stuff right at the end of the round means that people tend to be winding down to either log off, afk for the next round, or generally just gear up for whatever's next. By starting trouble right as transfer is called, it's a bit late for anyone to really react or do anything. If you'd say, I don't know, disguised yourself, kidnapped someone, spoken to them a bit and then infected them with kois that would have been fine. As would then going a bit louder once they've been released to spread the virus. Does that make sense?

It's the same issue with changling. Killing people is entirely fine. But the person you killed went from chilling out and minding their own business to suddenly being murdered. They didn't gain anything from that interaction other than being sent to deadchat. Nobody else in the round can really do anything about it. Killing them didn't really serve a point to further any roleplay. If you'd dragged them off, told them you're this weird alien creature or whatever, then gone hard with an armblade, it would be entirely fine. I hope that helps a little?

[Bolbos]

Alright then, sorry for the troubles, will try to RP my kills a bit more

[Peppermint]

Locking and archiving.