Staff Complaint - YouJustGotOwened

[StewardsCap]

BYOND Key: UnionGuy
Staff BYOND Key: YouJustGotOwened
Game ID: N/A
Reason for complaint: This complaint is not leveled to say that the staff member is a terrible admin or acting with malicious intent, rather that the judgement comes from a misunderstanding of my beliefs. I understand it is bold of me to claim such a thing under a matter so uncomfortable and horrendous here on this server, especially given past history. However, I am strictly against the notion that I am a fascist apologist and want to explain that I did not intend to whistle-blow or apologize for Nazism or fascism.  
Evidence/logs/etc:

The ban goes as follows; 

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Thinly veiled Nazi dog-whistling is entirely unacceptable in this community and will not be tolerated. This goes for Discord, the server, and forums. You have been struck twice for similar Nazi-adjacent postings going back to October 2025. You must learn the difference between "rah rah Sol" posting and downright fascist apologia. There is a very stark distinction. The Solarian Restoration Front (SRF), the continuation of Michael Frost's ideological in lore, is an explicitly written fascist and genocidal group. There are OOC notes affixed on the relevant lore pages that make this very clear. If you want to return, you are expected to actually show that you understand the issue here. You may appeal this on the forums when you are ready. A non-exhaustive list of relevant conversations: https://discord.com/channels/157516682288562176/157531783779319808/1511083837348646953
https://discord.com/channels/157516682288562176/157531783779319808/1511838316641648774

In my position it seems that the argument for it is this: 

"The term 'Third Way' is a Nazi/Fascist dog-whistle, and from past warnings and comments you have shown yourself to make nazi-like posts."

From my perspective, this insinuates that I am a nazi whistleblower, thus I am a nazi. This is not true, so I will explain in parts why. I believe this comment comes from my recent conversation with a certain writer, who I will not name.
 

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"Who calls it third way except fascists" and "It's a part of fascist ideology and propaganda to justify themselves"

It seems this writer is knowledgeable on fascism and how to spot it, except, Third Way isn't a fascist ideology but a social democratic/bill Clinton thing. I was using the term incorrectly, the term I was referring to is The Third Position, or Third Position neo-fascism. This denotes that I do not know what I am talking about since I am using the term wrong, but also that this writer is wrong at least on naming. 

Counter argument: "You use 'Third Way' to cover up 'Third Position', this is a dog-whistle"

Then why would I use "Alternate Revolutionary" as well? Which is often another term for The Third Position, because it states it's an alternative to well both liberalism and conservatism and their extremes. Why would I use one term incorrectly and not the other if I'm trying to cover it up. Why do I state it in a manner of "They were not fascist, but Neo-fascist" in my related comments, which I will get too in a minute. If I am trying to showcase neo-fascism in a good light, why am I comparing them to the obviously evil SRF? Rather than the SFP or SPP using their definition of "Hard nationalism"? 

Counter argument: "Third Position is a Nazi/Fascist Dog Whistle to justify or give reason to the ideology"

The Third Position isn't a dog-whistle, rather it is a term coined to group all the neo-Nazi/neo-fascist movements post war. I use Wikipedia for this, but their sources come from both the Zeitgeschichte library on a book titled "Fascism´ s new faces (and new facelessness) in the 'post-fascist' epoch" and the Political Research Associates, which is a right wing investigative NPO from new England. I do believe these are sufficient for a topic such as fascism. 

 

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The term "Third Position" was coined in Europe during the Cold War as an umbrella term for neo-fascist and nationalist syncretic ideologies, mostly those decedent from Italian fascism and other, primarily but not exclusively non-Hitlerite, fascist movements. These ideologies were generally united in their rejection of both Western Bloc capitalism and liberal democracy as well as Eastern Bloc Marxist communism, instead wishing to establish a third ideological force on the world stage, hence its name.

This writer says that only fascists use the term, however the Political Research Associates uses the term to properly identify them as a sub-movement of fascism 
 

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In the last few years of the 20th Century a new form of fascism emerged in a period of resurgent neofascism. Called the Third Position, it seeks to overthrow existing governments and replace them with monocultural nation states built around the idea of supremacist racial nationalism and/or supremacist religious nationalism. Third Position neofascists have organized in the U.S., Europe, and the Middle East, and they maintain some kind of loose network, at least for the purposes of discussing their shared ideas and agenda, but in some cases involving meetings and even funding.

So, this showcases that saying that the SRF or that Solarians still have "Third Positionists" is not me veiling fascism to make them sound better, rather it's just me being specific to what type of fascism is being used here. I believe that Solarian Fascism is Neo-fascism and uses racial (species but often the terms seem to mean the same OOCly at least and often used interchangeably) nationalism, with monocultural xenophobia. Thus, I believe them to be Third Positionists. Which is why I said the statement that got me banned; 
 

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"The Third way (In which I mean Third Position) is still prominent post-collapse"  

This statement is wrong, I mistook the SPP and SFP to be ultranationalist and neo-fascist, and I will get into that later. 

Counter argument: "You use the term with endearment, and in a positive light"

I do not believe this to be the case; I use the term in reference to both the SRF and the Hard right of the ASSN senate. The term above simply states I believe the Hard right in the ASSN to be neo-nazis/neo-fascists and in the argument, I joined in without defending them, rather just stating that I believe they are still around (which I was wrong about). I explain that I use the term Alt rev and Third Way to encompass neo-fascism, and my comment of "lol what?" comes simply at the accusations thrown at me which I believe come from an emotional sentiment and was not worth arguing about on a ss13 server. I understood that when I attempted these conversations it would either derail or become really uncomfortable, so I didn't want to prolong the conversation, and it was why I was putting attention on other things since I simply didn't want to engage in it. 

The second use comes from this comment by me: 

 

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They are uh... Not even Fa(s)cist... Alternate Revolutionary... National Socialist (Nazism) in some respects... Since they don't believe other species can be solarian

I understand that me saying "they are not fascists" can seem apologetic, however if this is the case why would I dare compare it to Nazism? Nazism is Vilified on the internet, and even if a fascist could give good reason for it, which is impossible since Nazism is abhorrent nonsense, it would be impossible to convince a server that is majority liberalist. Nazism is harder to justify because unlike fascism, which holds a national identity as a paramount value, Nazism holds national race and racial xenophobia as a paramount value. The Whole reason for Third Position is to try to stray away from the nazi ideology, why would I liken them to one if I was a Neo-fascist whistleblower? Again, why would I supposedly compare it to the most vilified, horrendous, evil, genocidal warlord state in the spur? 

So how I viewed my comment was: 

"They are uh... not even Traditional Fascists... Neo-Fascists... Quasi-Nazis... Since they are racist xenophobes, one step more ultra nationalistic than traditional fascism" 

I am not using the term as a positive or lighter notion, rather as a more specific and in my opinion accurate identification of the SRF's and larger Solarian Fascism's flavor of fascism. 

Counter argument: "Your needlessly pedantic and specific definitions paints extensive interest in fascism, which in combination with past warnings showcases a liking to the ideology"

I am going to bring up the two warnings quickly, since I think they do not paint me as a fascist. 
 

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please do not post memes that are painted over racist ones. I know it probably wasn't done with malice but that's toeing the line quite a bit

The image was a painted over 4chan post that replaced the original being aimed at the Asian peoples. The paint over replaced it with a Solarian and a Skrell, I did not make the meme, and I was not aware of its nature. I got it from another server, that also probably did not notice it. I did it I believe after my Skrell WL or during its process, so if I was in the know why would I take the risk? 

Counter argument: "You cannot verify that you are not feigning ignorance"

This is a fair argument, and I cannot prove against it, however the admin who warned me held that it wasn't probably malicious, especially since it was my first time. Yet I don't have the benefit of this happening as a one off in the perspective of the moderation team, so I admit I cannot give you a logical riposte to this. 

The second warning is more Nazi-Adjacent and is the following: 

 

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Please don't bring up direct nazi references and say "sieg heil", even ironically. It's in bad taste.

The context here is that I was in a conversation with someone about the SS14 server Hullrot, and I was mocking the Solarian Divine Mandate on it's nazi larp; bringing up a moment when a SDM soldat said "Sieg heil" to show how obnoxious and obvious it was. I wasn't glorifying Nazism and the warning was because it was in bad taste, even to a terrible server, to bring up nazi references. The warning notes I was being Ironic, so I wasn't seriously glorifying hitler. 

The mentality that because I am well-read (sorta with me wronging identifying Third Position) and using such specific terms rather than just saying "fascism" means that I support or at least like it. No, the reason I have researched fascism is to combat it, the philosophy of knowing your enemy which is especially important in politics if you don't want to get entrapped as a fool. Lack of knowledge on the subject allows fascists to manipulate and fool their opposition, since opposers go in overconfident and end up getting trapped in a mistake to make them look stupid. Sure, to the opposer they know why fascism is bad, but to the neutral party? It only stirs confidence in spite of it. In short, I read on it to properly defend and denounce the ideology; one which is slowly growing in my country.  

Counter argument: "Your needlessly pedantic and specific definitions is not smart and allows for people to misinterpret what you are saying." 

This is fair; however, I don't think it warrants a ban. I wasn't being malicious, but specific and attempting to be intellectual on the subject. In the past, I have attempted these things before, using terms like OAS (Organization of American States) and WSR (World Soviet Republics), one being an esoteric piece I believe only mentioned once on the Enceladus page? The other being esoteric to be esoteric. I do not believe that misinterpretation warrants punishment, rather clarification. 

To clarify my misunderstanding of the SFP and SPP, In the respective pages I mistook both parties term "Solarian Nationalists" to be a stand-in, as the term is used on Forst and Hopper 
 

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...radical Solarian nationalists such as Micheal Forst and Terrance Hopper, 

So, I mistook the fringe to be at least somewhat popular, which is my mistake. This supposed "ballooning" of Solarian fascism and my specific terms can be mistaken for being pro-fascism, I see that now. But again, i this ban is not about alleged or possibly mistaken, rather than actual acts of dog-whistling and fascist apologetics. 

Additional remarks: I appreciate the staff team letting me access the discord and giving me a chance to appeal, even though it's understandably justified in your eyes to smite me entirely. If I am proven wrong, and that I was acting as a fascist apologist, I will appeal and accept all the maluses with that (WL stripping, stain on my rec, etc.)

Sources: 
What is the Third Position? | Political Research Associates
https://elibrary.utb.de/doi/abs/10.24216/FORUM-2023-1-9783838278674_004
https://factually.co/fact-checks/politics/difference-between-fascism-and-nazism-252603
Third Position - Wikipedia, Fascism - Wikipedia, Nazism - Wikipedia

 

[StewardsCap]

Correction: I use the Term "Whistle-blower" when I should be using the term "Dog-whistler", sorry for that