Bobsenjr

@Meowykins Right, I can see how that would be frustrating and it is maybe the primary weakness about how we roleplayed that day, but the escalation of time limits was 4 minutes and then 8 minutes (I seem to remember, might be off). It was never really attempted to put us in for a longer time. And yes, I guess it could be seen as an "exploit" to get away scot free, but only in the same way that anyone else who commits a crime gets away with it at round end. @Doomberg. I understand the logic behind pulling us via the admins, but I still feel like security did the least possible to engage in the world and actually roleplay with us. A longer sentence (30 or so minutes) could've easily given security the breathing room they needed without having to make it a admin matter and therefore ending the roleplay that was underway. I feel we've all talked through it sufficiently and seeing as the majority of staff (Or so it seems) agrees with the admins actions that there probably wont be any changes made as a product of the complaint. I appreciate you all talking with me here on the forums and its been great to hear the other side of the story in a bit more detail. Seeing as more posts will most likely just talk about the same thing over and over I think its best for a final ruling, which I will fully embrace.

@Serveris Well, from what I saw during that round you were already being called out on torture, so being upgraded to Hitler doesn't seem like a big step I still think that a 20 or 30 minute prison sentence for that sort of repeat offending is fine, and I have been judged as such before and I accepted it. And I understand that this was not the right round for it, and if I had known better back when the incident happened I would've probably done it less so or not at all. And the character was never really meant to be edgy, but more as a loveable idiot. My previous interactions with sec was always centered around being steadfast around drawing art around the station but always showing up when called in for an arrest, just to avoid being an edgy "you can't catch me" kind of character. And if other players found it annoying then so be it, but I still feel it was an IC issue and should have been dealt with IC'ly, not by admins.

@ DoombergI understand the point of throwing people in the brig, but the problem could've been easily solved by security by throwing me in the brig for 20-30 minutes instead of making it an admin issue. If they seriously considered throwing me in the perma-brig, surely they would not have an issue against throwing me in the brig for a longer amount of time. Again I feel that this entire thing should have been solved as an in character action, a role play action, instead of making it an administrative issue. @Chaznoodles Yeah it definitely isn't a bad blood kind of situation, I understand both sides, but I feel that it could have been handled better. Regarding integrating more, I felt like I a tleast was a little integrated (with other characters, Melvin Malvinas and all that jazz) but I think you might be right in that a character needs more introduction before it is used in this way.

I have a hard time understanding how security appearntly works on this server. The natural reaction would be to put a repeat offender in for 20 or 30 minutes, not perma-brig them. Why was this not considered? It seems like that its either 2 minutes or perma-brig (or a ban), which doesn't seem like very prudent security work. Also, reportedly making a habit is kind of strongly worded, making it sound like I have been doing this for weeks. Doing this for quarter of a round and another full round hardly justifies banning me when I act annoyingly in a situation I know nothing of. Right, I understand that small time antags don't actually exist, but the idea was to create a character where I had a good reason to do something that would be semi-breaking the law without having to play a murderer or something else which would just be griefing. Talking about it and hearing the feedback from you guys I probably won't be using the character again, but the way it was handled this round was just not up to par with what I expect from this server.

@Severis (You submitted just as I was submitting, so sorry for the weird response layout) I respect your position, but I disagree with almost all of your points. I can understand that someone self-antaging can be a real bother in the middle of a hectic situation, but my response to this would be that you can't expect everyone to stop roleplaying and do nothing whenever security is having a hard time. Furthermore, as I have stated before, I was not aware that all of these things were happening, mostly because there was zero communication from the command in the game. Also, as I have stated before I was under the impression that this could be a rev round, as people were accusing you of torturing and raising the alert so you could arrest more freely (That was the radio chatter anyways). And no, I don't feel like pointing a complaint against you in this instance, because I feel the responsibility lies with the admins to understand what is going on during this. The fact that security feels that certain "shenanigans" are so hazardous to their stress levels that a ban or a kick is necessary is frankly a terrible reaction. If you felt overwhelmed during the round you could've jailed me for longer, that is to respond to an IC action with another IC action instead of making it an admin problem. The fact that the admins then felt that this problem could not be solved ingame but had to be stopped by a otherworldly presence shows faults in the way roleplay was structured during this round. I'm sorry you felt that my "antics" were not that entertaining, I genuinely try to cause fun roleplay. All in all, I would've maybe acted differently if I had known the extent of the circumstances, but the way the actual situation played out (being approached by admins for roleplaying a specific way) is just not conductive to a fun and entertaining RP server. That is why I made a complaint.

@doomberg You know i'll admit that its not the most amazing character. For sure its a gimmick character if anything, but I wouldn't play that character if I didn't feel like others were having fun. What I saw earlier in the week was security having fun with me playing this character so I was under the impression that maybe I could do the same this one. I might've backed off had I known that there was a bomb threat (Or whatever was going on that round) but it was never communicated. At no point was I told about laser shooting IA's or anything of the sort, infact as I wrote in one of the other responses, the way radio chatter was going on it seemed like it might've been a rev round as people were accusing security of raising the alert so that they could arrest people without the proper paperwork aswell as torture. I can see why that would add grief and I have experienced the same thing as a sec officer, but that doesn't mean that I would report the person. Although it can be stressful as a security officer to have emergency situations and then deal with minor antags, you can't exactly blame others for trying to roleplay during these situations aswell, even if it isn't ideal especially for you (you as in security) If the round had simply ended with security taking away the crayons or locking me up for a longer period then thats the way it works out. Sure it'd be boring for me, but I can't really protest security being security. But the fact that admins were pulled in to stop roleplay because it was causing stressful situations for the security team is just not alright in my opinion, which is why I submitted this complaint. The crux of "Do they want to be fired" comes back to the same thing we talked about on ingame. That is whether or not semi-continuous rounds include small antag actions. If murders and hardcore antags are allowed to show up next shift as doctors or engineers without being arrested, then why isn't a small time antag allowed to do the same?

That's a fair enough point, but let me respond with what I saw during that round. First of all, If we are specificly talking about the round wherein I was jailed, the impression that I had from the code blue/red situation was that the security team was acting tyranical. Now I fully understand that the situation was probably completely different, but seen from the outside no one was told why we went to code blue/red. Adding to that a lot of people were saying over the radio that sec was doing it to forgo paper work etc. So I genuinely thought 'this might be a rev round'. Again, I hear this "round after round" being used, when it was in fact 2 rounds. And yes, there for sure have been multiple occasions with me, as I have played the character maybe 4-5 times in total with varying degrees of success, but it hasn't been on the same day and it has been in a row. Also I just don't know what to say when you tell me that security is being used as an alternate to admins, because if I wasn't trying to RP with you guys then I don't know what. I even openly invited a RP response when I said I would do a "Art piece" in front of the bridge. If you don't feel like interacting with the people that you are arresting, then that sounds like a terrible reason to play security, because I played an antag so I could interact with security in a fun way that didn't require me to murder someone or run around pushing sec officers. It just really makes it sound like a sad case when you say that "if we're dealing with the same people three or four times a round for the same thing, we're likely on the verge of throwing you in perma forever" doesn't lead to roleplay. I can understand if its just some dude pushing people or shouting curse words over the radio, but I was -actively- trying to stirr up some alternate roleplay and all I got was tired staff helpers that couldn't give a shit about anyone. I've had this RP work out splendidly with security before when it was inhabited by people that weren't just tired of playing security. People that were willing to use the situations as a way to roleplay or talk with me or interact with me. But I do see your point and i'll have to adjust to that point of view.

Also a legit point, but I feel like the rules become a bit blurred on this subject. I think we could both agree that a character such a mine would be fired eventually, but as I was told the round system is semi-continous. That means that if fx, your character committed a murder in round 1 he wouldn't be hauled off to the perma-brig on round 2. Does this then not carry over to smaller antag actions? I never planned on using Seymour Robberou (Character in question) every round, but I have certainly had fun with him for a few rounds. Not to mention that the friend that played with me was playing along for the very first time, so his character didn't really fit the role of repeat offender. Again the words "Round after round" are used, and I don't feel that is justified. Two rounds on a Saturday and two rounds on a Wednesday hardly add up to someone doing this for days on end. At what point is it too much? As I have stated, that was the first and only round of that evening where security interacted with us. Out of the two, this was the first time where security had the displeasure of actually roleplaying with us (And not even at that).

I can totally understand that point of view, but the fact was that we had barely had a welcome, so to speak. In the first round (The one we participated in for 20 minutes or so) the entire station had been blown to bits, and everyone was pretty dead-set on evacing. So we felt that that wasn't a "real round" as there was no real response and our attempts at starting roleplay hadn't fostered anything. So the one round were we got pulled aside was in fact the first round we had interacted with security at all. If this had been the 3rd or 4th round in a row I could understand it becoming tired, but security barely even tried to roleplay with us that round before the admins stepped in.

BYOND Key: Bobsenjr (Raynack also involved) Staff BYOND Key: Sound Scopes / Doomberg Reason for complaint: Asked to stop role play for what I perceived as a bad reason Evidence/logs/etc: http://imgur.com/a/c3jKS I apologize for the terrible pictures, but the conversation started with Sound Scopes and ended with Doomberg Additional remarks: So me and my friend were roleplaying two "revolutionaires" in a non-rev round. The scale of our revolution was to draw with crayons all over the station. Some drawings were crude others had whatever meaning we could scramble together. I admit it wasn't exactly the most breathtaking display of modernist art, but we had fun and we were trying to stirr up some roleplay with the station and security. It should be noted that we had played about 20 minutes of a previous round where we had joined just at the end. During that round we also drew on the floors. The round in question however was the first time we had really gotten into it. So we started our round by meeting in character and planning our deeds. We then took the crayons from the art room and started mucking about writing things that seemed "revolutionary" and "provoking" without exactly being explicit or offensive. We were arrested the first time by a brilliant security maneuver trapping us in the main tool storage. Here I thought we might inspire some fun roleplay, but the moment we were hauled in no one talked to us. We attempted to start a conversation with the security officers, but they barely spoke with us and then hauled us to our cell. We then got out after 4 minutes and retrieved some stashed crayons and continued on our revolutionary way. I declared over the radio that I would make a art piece outside the command center in response to Nanotrasens capitalist ways. This instantly caused a security officer to show up and the janitor to swat me with her mop. I was then hauled off to prison again (My friend was also beaten with stun batons and tazed when he was arrested separately from the art piece at the bridge). This time aswell there was no roleplay involved beyond the bare mechanical movements of dragging us to the evidence room, looking through our stuff, and putting us in our cell. We get released again and decide that we will have to do something else. However before we can really get around to doing anything we are approached by admins (both of us) and told to stop drawing everywhere because we are "self antagonizing". This is when the conversations from the logs start. I apologize again for them being very unsorted, but the conversation started with Sound Scopes and ended with Doomberg. I completely disagree with the way that we were stopped. As I also state in the logs, I find it defeating that the moment security doesn't feel like "dealing" with minor criminals they go to the admins straight away. We were not griefing, we were not assaulting people or starting fights, we were trying to roleplay revolutionaries that wanted to spread a message. When it comes to "self-antagonizing" and causing the sec team grief, I have to completely disagree. I had done this style of roleplay a few days earlier with the same character and had a great time with the security team. I'm afraid I remember none of their names specifically, but instead of treating it like a boring chore they actually interacted with me. And yes, there was long jail sentences but the communication I had with the head of security those rounds was really entertaining, and I left having really enjoyed my time (And hoping he had aswell). In contrast to that, these rounds were nothing like that. Security members didn't speak to us as they searched us. At one point the warden just came in the door and searched my pockets while I was jailed to the chair. No questions, no saying hello. The way the admins handled this issue was very unsatisfying. Instead of looking into the issue, they instantly sided with the "veteran security players" that clearly found our antics not suitable to their dreary RP. A specific line I can quote is the way that Doomberg said that "In any case, if you believe drawing on the floor with crayon and doing your damnedest to pester security into giving you attention is going to generate some sort of deep RP, i'm afraid you're probably in the wrong place" was very patronizing. I am trying my damnedest not to "pester" security, but to generate some roleplay that is not centered around some doom wizard murdering everyone, or everyone just being depressed at the bar. Sure, it can be a pain in the ass to deal with self-made antags but as security you should be able to handle two dudes with crayons (That never resisted arrest by the way) instead of calling the admins in to deal with it. All in all, it was a very defeating situation. It took the fun out of a long and fun roleplay situation by forcing an end to it because security didn't feel like doing their jobs. As for the admins I feel they took the side of "reports" without actually looking at the facts and just shutting it off because the regulars were mildly annoyed. Thanks for reading this wall of text, and I will stand by whatever decision is made. I love the server and (so far) I have loved the staff, but this has been real bummer of an experience.

Hey thanks guys, I am really glad you are enjoying it as much as I am! I wanted to know if it was possible that the books could be added to the permanent book database? That way I can just ask a librarian every round to print them out for me. Also, I added that the Priest/Chaplain's new religious title is Branch Manager. Just add some extra spice.

The Church of The Great Pizza Surprise Pack guide Deep-dish Bakers, today I will tell the tale of the Great Pizza Surprise Pack and how you should honor him if you choose to be a follower of his cheesy faith. Basic beliefs To start, it is important to recognize the fundamental beliefs of the Great Pizza Surprise Pack. They are as follows. 1. The Great Pizza Surprise Pack is the ultimate being. The supreme God. There are no other Gods. 2. The Great Pizza Surprise Pack meddles in the affairs of mortals by affecting chance. Will the pizza box contain a meat pizza or a vegetable pizza? Will you find credits on the way to work or will you trip over a rock? He changes the margins in your favor if you show him affection with prayer, pizza parties and being a good person. 3. There is no central religious authority, but it is recognized that there are some prophets of the Great Pizza Surprise Pack. There are also holy books such as the Book of Cheeses and the Book of Deliveries that describe the actions of the Great Pizza Surprise Pack (GPSP from now on) 4. Central to any believer is toppings. A chaplain/priest will often talk about how GPSP decided this or that flavor. Does a plain cheese pizza mean that the GPSP is not happy with your work? Or does it mean he has set you on a plain and peaceful path? When talking about the faith, its important to use toppings and flavors as arguments. Religious customs 1. The Chaplain is entrusted to cover the chapel in slogans. Usually it will start with the word 'SURPRISE' written in crayon along the floor. From this other combinations can be made, such as PIZZA from the P in SURPRISE. 2. Pizza is at once to be produced from Cargo and cut into slices. These slices are to be offered freely in the chapel to all visitors, regardless of faith. 3. All religious statements must be ended with 'Deep-dish'. These ancient words have long since lost their meaning, but provide a way to identify other followers. Other followers are to be called Baker [Last Name]. I.E. Baker Malvinas or Baker Winterbottom. The Chaplain/Priest's official title is 'Branch Manger'. As in Branch Manager Malvinas. 4. The Chaplain is never to deny others based on faith or creed. The GPSP compels his followers to be the best beings they can be. 5. To join the Church of the Great Pizza Surprise Pack, a person must enter the confession booth and state two truths. What is their favorite topping and what is their least favorite topping. After they have answered these questions they will officially be given the title of Baker. 6. A member of the Church must eat pizza at least 4 times during the week, and must confess their favorite topping and least favorite topping every month at a confession booth. This is to make sure that the GPSP knows what he can do to show favour and displeasure. 7. Prayer is a necessary part of every day life. However it is not to be used for wanting things at every turn, but rather to thank GPSP for his choice of toppings, and his belief in your spirit. Ceremonial tutorial A Sermon is conducted thusly. A Branch Manager usually calls a Sermon 5 minutes before it happens. When all have arrived, the Branch Manager states on the radio that the Sermon will now begin. It is very important that there is pizza slices at the sermon. The Branch Manager will start by welcoming all that have attended "Welcome to the Church of The Great Pizza Surprise Pack! Thank you to all who have attended. Deep Dish, Bakers!" Then the Branch Manager will either hold a independent sermon, wherein they talk about whatever they find important or they quote a story from one of the Holy Books (As shown further down the page). After this is done, the Branch Manager thanks the attendees once again "Thank you for attending this Sermon. Everyone please take a slice, and let us eat together" The attendees then all eat a slice. Afterwards, the Branch Manager asks for all to pray. "Let us all end the Sermon by praying to The Great Pizza Surprise Pack in our own thoughts". The attendees then pray. After a small time has passed, the Branch Manager will proclaim "Deep Dish!" And the attendees are urged to repeat this phrase. The Sermon is then over. Canon texts If you have a text you'd like added to the canon texts just PM me, i'll add them here. Of course I am not going to hunt you down if you just make your own stories, but keep them to the character of the GPSP. Book of Cheeses Book of Expectations Book of Dish Book of Bread Books with formatting Recognized branch managers Melvin Malvinas Kevin Winterbottom Recognized Bakers Anton Erikson - Favorite: Kebab - Least Favorite: Pineapple and ham Thoughts? Comments? I'd love to hear feedback. This is a living document and i'll probably be editing as I refine the faith.