Issued Warning

[Karlov]

BYOND Key: Karlov 
Staff BYOND Key: Peppermint96
Game ID: cgM-dnHi
Reason for complaint: Related warning/judgement
Evidence/logs/etc: Attached below or wherever they end up, sorry slightly forum illiterate
Additional remarks: 

I'm not here to argue the warning as I feel it is mostly based in a few varying notes over about a week and I understand that except for the potion about anomaly work and that I should refrain from having anything to do with artifacts/anomalies.

I'll break it into 3 parts marked with headings.

TL;DR I would argue that it would  not be out  of the realm of possibility for a miner to be able to find small artifacts and would be fitting if they discovered how to find them on their own like my character did. I found out about artifacts and how to find them on my own with no help from the wiki or non IC  means so I do not believe that my character having that knowledge  is breaking the roleplaying rules of "Restrict yourself to your character's knowledge" or "Try to perform your job to a satisfactory standard" as  I am able to regularly collect 10-15k in mining points in the first 30-45 minutes of a shift. I would also argue that I have only had one real run in with sec maybe two max over anomalies so the "continuously not listening to sec" may be a little over exaggerated

Reasoning:
I feel as a miner main that it is not unreasonable to be able to go out and uncover small artifacts as the scanners come standard equipped with the option, and I stick to my standard equipment of a pickaxe save for a single occasion that I will bring up later. So the tools are all there at my disposal and I would argue that any mine would be able to uncover artifacts if they were on a quite shift and decided to see if they could find anything with the scanner setting as even in the xenoarchaeology's page, referenced to see if it had any ties to mining at the time of writing this, it even describes xenoarchaeology as being "played similar to mining". I will preface the next section with I have never been a large player of standard SS13 servers, I have mainly stuck to CM or DR or "themed" servers, so I rarely know anything past mining and everything that happened with my character happened organically. This is to say I did not just out of the blue look at the xenoarchaeology's page and decide that my character would specialize in artifacts as a miner.  The rest may be TL;DR but it explains why my character had his employment records the way they did and why I feel it is reasonable for my character to have this subset of skills as he learned it on the job and was encouraged to pursue, at least initially, by multiple other characters.

Experience:
 I had been out mining and found silver pickaxe and I was testing the difference between it and the normal pickaxes stocked in the mining bay. While testing I had uncovered a soul shard and brought it in because I found it to be odd and that is where I had heard mention that an archaeologist may want it. Either later in that shift or the next I had the idea that maybe that's how I uncover artifacts so I went out and went through about 5 pings before something was finally uncovered. From there I just started going out and  uncovering  these pings with usually limited success after I had cleared my quota for the shift. A couple days later I was approached by an IC friend that is a cargo tech and their friend who at the time was a roboticist and they had a set of excavation picks and in roughly 10 minutes they had compiled a full set of EVA and tools belonging to a xenoarchaeologist. I gratefully took the equipment, excavation picks and a depth analyzer, and began just going at the pings and I had relative success but it took almost the whole shift before I understood the display and how  the tools worked. I may have gotten a set of picks and depth analyzer only one other time. From then on I had only used a pickaxe and it was still very easy to find an artifact just by swinging at pings and multiple other characters had pushed me to further my experience into possibly becoming a xenoarch myself, the reason I didn't or haven't is because there is rarely a xenoarch or anomalist on to RP through the process of becoming one myself.

Argument:
In the attached images it was stated that I claimed experience in anomalies and or artifacts but I had written, may not be exact as I deleted in the round in question, "Torres has a slight specialization in artifact hunting and is willing to extend his services to the science department if asked". I had no intention nor have I claimed at any point in IC that my character has any unreasonable knowledge like the what, when, or how an artifact works save for the "I've seen this before it is probably safe", or "That glowing red sword doesn't look safe". There is mention of me having multiple crimes or run ins with sec but there is only one time that I was arrested for something like this and I didn't argue it at the time ICly but it was due to multiple people telling me multiple different things over supply comms so I decided to just take the anomaly to science. Most other times there has been tension with sec if from misunderstandings from the initial arrest. Another statement was made that I detract from the roles and jobs of the science department. In my experience there is rarely a scientist that is not either working in R&D or the robot lab and the very few times there was an anomalist they were busy with something else. I feel that finding small artifacts to turn over to science when there is not a xenoarch or anomalist present hardly detracts from science's roles or job.

If anything is unclear and you'd like clarification or you would like me to reveal the names of characters mentioned for follow up just let me know I also have the  chat  logs saved just in case you want them. I would also like to say that  one of my responses were not the best worded and I had misinterpreted one of Peppermints earlier messages so if it comes off as dismissal or hostile I do apologize.
 

[Peppermint]

The warning was written kind of shit, but I stand by that it was a justified.

- The record itself wasn't okay. You agreed to change it but doubled down on doing the work anyway ' if you got bored'. It essentially gave you free reign to do cross departmental work.
- You were running out to hunt down anomalies rather than just coming across them. This is science's job, not yours. You have a history of this kind of thing, hence a warning.
- If we use the 'I mechanically can' argument due to the items you're provided, most departments with medical kits can do FR's job, most can do security's job, most can do large chunks of engineering's - it's not a good enough excuse and you should stick to one lane.

I'd have maybe left this as a note if you'd not essentially doubled down on 'I'll be doing it anyway'. Miners shouldn't be crossing over the annomaly job on purpose, across multiple rounds. Likewise I have no log IDs, ticket info, or evidence during this build up of IC reasonings you've given me here, in the same vein I have no evidence your character was continuously breaking IC regs and the latter was therefor discarded and I will be doing the same for the rest listed here.

I stand by the warning and have no intentions of lifting it.

[MattAtlas]

I will handle this along with @Mneme. Expect a conclusion within the next few days.

[Mneme]

Hello, sorry about the delay. After reviewing this staff complaint, the notes, and the rationale presented by both sides, Matt and I do not believe any wrongdoing has occurred and believe that Peppermint was justified in their decision to apply a warning. It is fine if you suddenly dig up an artifact as a byproduct of your work as a miner and send them on their way to Research, but the problem lays within actively hunting down those artifacts. Going out and actively searching for them and carefully extracting them is normally a task best suited for a Xenoarchaeologist or an Anomalist. Digging up ore is wildly different than engaging in a xenoarchaeological dig. It is likely that if your character has the specialized knowledge to carefully dig up artifacts and reliably retrieve them, they're not going to be working in a mining position. As a heavy roleplay server we try and justify things outside of their mechanical context, just because you can do something doesn't mean you should. One example being, just because I as a person knows how to set up the supermatter engine, doesn't mean that my character who is a janitor would. 

This complaint will be closed in 24 hours if nothing else comes up.