Staff Decision Complaint - Sadkermit

[Syncron]

BYOND Key: Evildwells666
Staff BYOND Key: Sadkermit
Game ID: cn2-dmr1
Reason for complaint: During an emergency, an off duty miner, with a background and certifications for shuttle-craft piloting, took the intrepid to let the medics get out to the asteroid as nobody else could fly. Sadkermit said this is not allowed, and I am fighting this decision. Please see additional remarks for reasoning.
Evidence/logs/etc:

Additional remarks:

 

Alright. To start off. This is not seeking to backhand Sadkermit. This is refuting the decision in regards to the situation at hand.

 

Let me start off by saying this. When one is trained in piloting, They would be trained in more than just a tiny pod of a shuttle. Like I said in the round as an example: Someone trained in flying a single propeller plane, wouldn't make sense if they couldn't fly a dual propeller either. The excuse that 'The intrepid is too technologically advanced' makes no sense. The mining team has more flight time than most other departments, including some bridge crew members, and as such wouldn't have AS hard of a time flying, as say, someone who has never touched controls in their life. 

While mining shouldn't just be flying it willy-nilly, Why exactly would they be unable to fly it in an emergency? Its not like you are pulling hard maneuvers, and in this case, there isn't even an atmosphere to worry about. It was literally pulling out of the hanger, and landing on the asteroid. No flight otherwise.

So my dispute here, is to the decision that miners cannot fly the Intrepid even during an emergency. It makes no logical sense considering they need to at least be certified in shuttle-craft piloting, and most miners that fly would also have extensive experience doing so. That would entail more than just something the size of a flying tic-tac.

On that same note, considering how technology works, most vessels would have plenty of automated systems that makes flying them a bit easier. Be it stabilizers, gyroscopes, etc. So I feel its not unheard of for someone with experience to be able to fly a vessel thats bigger than their most commonly used one, to a degree. After all, The intrepid is not the size of the Horizon.

I don't see why this was made a rule, unless someone did it enough for it to become a problem. Because at this time, the off-duty miners were the only option to try and save someone, and the only people with flight experience.

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And one final note of contention; Even if a miner couldn't properly fly it, is it not an IC issue at that time? If the miner fucks up, and people die, the ship gets damaged, or any number of negatives that come out of the situation, that seems like something that would be handled in game, not OOCly.

[WickedCybs]

I'm handling this with @Owen. It shouldn't be too long before our next response. 

Edited May 28, 2023 by WickedCybs
added another participant

[Owen]

Hi! What Kermit told you per the Guide to Piloting is correct and our overall stance on who can pilot what, and is clear that a miner is not to pilot more than the Spark. These are OOC rules and not IC regulations, so while you might be punished for piloting something you shouldn't be ICly, it should not be happening in the first place on a player level.

This remains the case regardless of whether you are only docking/undocking a ship or if you are piloting it halfway across the sector. This is not something that can be argued otherwise on a complaint, as these threads do not determine policy decisions. They are about issues with staff and decisions made by staff. 

We’ll leave this up for a few days if there are any more questions.

[Syncron]

I still argue that it makes no sense not to do so as the only person ICly with flight experience during an emergency, but since its not going to change anything, you can close this topic, since headbutting a wall is pointless.

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For future notice, Perhaps the wiki needs to be more clear as well.

That leads one to believe that in an emergency, they should be able to do so, during emergencies.

Edited May 28, 2023 by Syncron
Added info

[Owen]

10 hours ago, Syncron said:

For future notice, Perhaps the wiki needs to be more clear as well.

That leads one to believe that in an emergency, they should be able to do so, during emergencies.

This refers to the fact that for each ship, several people are listed who are qualified to fly it, but that preference should be given to the specific job assigned to the shuttle. So for the Spark: Miners, Xenoarchaeologists, Bridge Crew, OM, RD, XO, and Captains all can fly the ship, but under normal circumstances, miners should only be the ones flying it. This is the same for the Intrepid, but where the miners are not listed as qualified at all--the other listed roles can still pilot it should the need arise, but in general, the Intrepid should be deferred to the Xenoarchaeologists. 

Read in the context of the entire section, Cybs and I both believe it to be sufficiently clear. I'll go ahead and close this now.