Staff Complaint - Sadkermit

[tomatik]

BYOND Key: Tomatik
Staff BYOND Key: Sadkermit
Game ID: cxw-cPJ6
Reason for complaint: As it was presented, it's an "if" scenario, "if you do so, consequences happen", And thus i fail to see how i was anything, but intentionaly misled.
After some consideration, "holding up a round" for two people ready, one of which was me, being warned despite the agreeing to the terms presented seems like an unfair misue of my trust, it's barely a violation of any rules, as far as i know, and it was a deadshift at that
Evidence/logs/etc:
Additional remarks: There were three people voting for meteor at the time, there were only two people ready, one of whom was me.
Who am i holding up from playing but me and one other person?
Even if it was, solely me, holding up the round, for what, six minutes at most, total?

[kermit]

2 hours ago, tomatik said:

There were three people voting for meteor at the time, there were only two people ready, one of whom was me.
Who am i holding up from playing but me and one other person?

There were 4 people readied initially, I'm pretty sure; it did eventually drop down to 2.

Another player also made their discontent with the meteor voting apparent, whether or whether not they were ready I do not know.

2 hours ago, tomatik said:

As it was presented, it's an "if" scenario, "if you do so, consequences happen", And thus i fail to see how i was anything, but intentionaly misled.

I wrote up the ahelp as the vote was still ongoing. Frustratingly, the message was sent seconds before the vote actually concluded and didn't really give you much time to act on what I said.

This doesn't change that repeatedly memevoting a round will catch you a note/warning though, especially when you're asked not to beforehand—

2 hours ago, tomatik said:

it's barely a violation of any rules, as far as i know

—which you were: you (really everyone, as I wasn't sure who was voting) were told in OOC not to vote meteor to hold up a round.

This covers the 'Note that these rules cannot cover the myriad of situations that will arise during gameplay. As such, the word of Moderators and Administrators ingame is final, and not up for debate past a certain point.' at the top of the rules.

Instead, I got a 'fun police' from you and the 4th meteor memevote went though lol.

I wouldn't say memevoting's the hugest of deals during lowpop, but it's still something we put a stop to, because it does frustrate people – as it did in this case too.

[tomatik]

2 hours ago, kermit said:

There were 4 people readied initially

There weren't, it was just me and another scientist, that's all.
There were, however, at most 4 players within the round itself, some joined some left, to say they were all readied initially would be wrong.

3 hours ago, kermit said:

Another player also made their discontent with the meteor voting apparent, whether or whether not they were ready I do not know.

Two more players also voted for meteor, do you imply that if an admin expresses discontent for a mode, they're allowed to give out warnings to anyone they don't particularly like?

3 hours ago, kermit said:

Frustratingly

You are the one sending the message, it was perfectly within your grasp, you punch in the letter, you send out messages

3 hours ago, kermit said:

the message was sent seconds before the vote actually concluded and didn't really give you much time to act on what I said.

3 hours ago, kermit said:

This doesn't change that repeatedly memevoting a round will catch you a note/warning though, especially when you're asked not to beforehand

So that "beforehand" was literally seconds away? How is that fair?
How is it fair that you meant for me to understand that you wanted me to read the message and then to retract the vote within *seconds* of you doing it?
You even yourself admit that it's not, you really didn't give me *any* time to act, so instead you acted yourself and went through with your demand
Were you to give me ample time to actually react, i would've retracted my vote, it's not a thing i've done out of malice

3 hours ago, kermit said:

I wasn't sure who was voting

So you don't even know if *i* was voting? You issued a warning with no ground?
You also put it in a way that makes it sound like i voted for meteor all 4 times, as if i was single-handedly doing it

3 hours ago, kermit said:

4th meteor memevote went though lol.

It would've even without me. There were two more people voting for it. It wouldn't have beaten anything else, with one vote at best. There were, after all, just two people readied up, one of which was me.

Was there anyone else you struck with a warning at the time? Did you single me out for calling you fun police? 

As the warning says "This just keeps people who may want to play from playing."
I was, in fact, wanting to play, i was readied up, and i have played through the entire round, in fact, i was the only person to do so in that round, so that begs the question

3 hours ago, kermit said:

does frustrate people 

If it frustrated *you*, why didn't you play in the round? Why didn't anyone else? How come it was just me?

[CampinKiller]

I'll be handling this.

[kermit]

This'll be my last post unless Campin asks another of me.

 

16 hours ago, tomatik said:

Two more players also voted for meteor, do you imply that if an admin expresses discontent for a mode, they're allowed to give out warnings to anyone they don't particularly like?

The difference here is you're voting for a mode that requires 15 readies when there were only 2-4 fluctuating readies. Not just once, but 4 times in a row.

Once is funny, but 4 times is a bit of a piss-take.

At that point, especially when asked not to by another player (not necessarily a mod), it's kinda just being a dick. Idk what other reason you would have voted meteor for the 4th time after being asked not to?

16 hours ago, tomatik said:

So that "beforehand" was literally seconds away? How is that fair?
How is it fair that you meant for me to understand that you wanted me to read the message and then to retract the vote within *seconds* of you doing it?
You even yourself admit that it's not, you really didn't give me *any* time to act, so instead you acted yourself and went through with your demand
Were you to give me ample time to actually react, i would've retracted my vote, it's not a thing i've done out of malice

It's fair because you had 2 minutes to opt not to memevote meteor for the 4th time after I had asked you/the others in OOC not to. You still opted to vote it a 4th time.

Whether or whether not I sent a PM, whether it was in-time or too close to the vote's end, doesn't change that you still disregarded the rules by memevoting meteor for the 4th time after being asked not to in OOC.

16 hours ago, tomatik said:

So you don't even know if *i* was voting? You issued a warning with no ground?

I made an accurate presumption based on your OOC messages and the 'Voters' tab of the vote menu.

It was then confirmed in the AdminPM, as you screenshotted.

16 hours ago, tomatik said:

It would've even without me. There were two more people voting for it. It wouldn't have beaten anything else, with one vote at best. There were, after all, just two people readied up, one of which was me.

 

It doesn't matter if other people were doing the same thing, as that doesn't change that you were still doing it with them.

16 hours ago, tomatik said:

Was there anyone else you struck with a warning at the time? Did you single me out for calling you fun police? 

Did you single me out for calling you fun police? 

Two other players were also spoken to.

The fun police message was a signal to me you were probably memevoting meteor, so yes, it factored into me PMing you.

Otherwise, it got a laugh out of me, even though it really hurt my feelings.

16 hours ago, tomatik said:

I was, in fact, wanting to play, i was readied up, and i have played through the entire round, in fact, i was the only person to do so in that round

If it frustrated *you*, why didn't you play in the round? Why didn't anyone else? How come it was just me?

This doesn't really matter.

I can't predict how many of the ~10-15 players online had intentions of readying up, latejoining, ghostroling, etc.

I do believe that 4 memevoters shouldn't hold up those ~10-15 players from having a round with which they can interact with if they wanted to or not.

It also didn't frustrate me really, I was pretty happy playing another game on the side with friends at the time.

[tomatik]

4 hours ago, kermit said:

The difference here is you're voting for a mode that requires 15 readies when there were only 2-4 fluctuating readies. Not just once, but 4 times in a row.

Once is funny, but 4 times is a bit of a piss-take.

At that point, especially when asked not to by another player (not necessarily a mod), it's kinda just being a dick. Idk what other reason you would have voted meteor for the 4th time after being asked not to?

You are not addressing what i've said.
You drifted away from my quote and said things of your very own that were completely detached from my words.
You are presenting me in worse light than i actually was.
What you're doing here is poor tone.
Please address the actual words said.

4 hours ago, kermit said:

It's fair because you had 2 minutes to opt not to memevote meteor for the 4th time after I had asked you/the others in OOC not to. You still opted to vote it a 4th time.

 

It's anything but, if you were to make the demand in OOC, that could've been plausable, instead you made the demand mere seconds before the vote ended, as you have admitted it yourself.

4 hours ago, kermit said:

I made an accurate presumption

Are you genuinely giving out punishment based on presumptions? Is that how staff is supposed to act? base their judgement and their actions solely on presumtions and wild guesses?

5 hours ago, kermit said:

you still disregarded the rules

Except i didn't, there's nothing in the rules that reads as follows "you are not allowed to vote"
And even then, you said so yourself here:

On 06/01/2025 at 04:34, kermit said:

—which you were: you (really everyone, as I wasn't sure who was voting) were told in OOC not to vote meteor to hold up a round.

This covers the 'Note that these rules cannot cover the myriad of situations that will arise during gameplay. As such, the word of Moderators and Administrators ingame is final, and not up for debate past a certain point.' at the top of the rules.

As such it would appear to me that you have made a "rule" on the spot and decided to warn me for something that did not exist two minutes prior.

5 hours ago, kermit said:

You still opted to vote it a 4th time.

Except i didn't get the chance to "opt in", you sent me a message a few seconds before the vote ended with a demand and consequences, and then immedately struck me with said consequences, that's misleading, and as much as you present it with being "fair", i can only presume it was intentional

5 hours ago, kermit said:

It doesn't matter if other people were doing the same thing, as that doesn't change that you were still doing it with them.

It quite literally only matters when others are doing the same thing, that's how voting works, it's a group action, it can only work as long as there are others involved.
 

5 hours ago, kermit said:

This doesn't really matter.

I can't predict how many of the ~10-15 players online had intentions of readying up, latejoining, ghostroling, etc.

There weren't 10-15 players there at the time, there were 6-8, with only 2 of them being ready.

5 hours ago, kermit said:

I do believe that 4 memevoters shouldn't hold up those ~10-15 players from having a round with which they can interact with if they wanted to or not.

There were neither 4 memevoters nor were there 10-15 people at the time, will ask you to prove otherwise.

5 hours ago, kermit said:

Once is funny, but 4 times is a bit of a piss-take.

I, by myself, coudn't have possibly held up a round four times with a vote, if we were to take your version of there actually being 15 people, how come they didn't vote for anything but meteor?
 

5 hours ago, kermit said:

I made an accurate presumption

How come staff is allowed to take punitive action based solely on presumtions and dirty tricks, such as sending a message with a demand mere seconds before the demand expires? if anything it just seems like an excuse to give out a warning with little ground to cover it
Seeing as our retelling of the events varies drastically, i am urging you to find logs for the round, at least for the very start, as i refuse to believe that with your claim that there were in fact 15 people, and just three meteor votes could overthrow them seems unlikely to say the least.
Previous actions just seem like an excuse to escalate punitive measures, seeing as there was no actual need for punitive measures, as i have agreed to the demand.
I cooperated with the ahelp, and yet you still issued a warning, that is not what you promted, neither was it what i agreed on. You misled me on purpose.
 

 

On 06/01/2025 at 04:34, kermit said:

I wrote up the ahelp as the vote was still ongoing. Frustratingly, the message was sent seconds before the vote actually concluded and didn't really give you much time to act on what I said.

That is also not what the ahelp said, your direct word was "keep memevoting meteor", there wasn't even an actual need to act on what you've said, i did not "keep voting meteor" after you asked me. I was voting BEFORE you opened a ticket with me, i never voted meteor after.
Are you just not being true to your word? 

[CampinKiller]

20 hours ago, tomatik said:

How come staff is allowed to take punitive action based solely on presumtions and dirty tricks, such as sending a message with a demand mere seconds before the demand expires? if anything it just seems like an excuse to give out a warning with little ground to cover it

First of all, there's no dirty tricks designed to give out warnings happening here. The only presumption is one easily made, when you're in OOC trying to get people to vote meteor, that you are also voting meteor, which you were in fact doing, so this entire "you didn't actually know" thing is quite ridiculous.

Secondly, when a member of staff says to not do something, do not do it. Kermit said in OOC to stop meme voting meteor before the final vote even started, well before you were finally bwoinked about it. Your response was to call them the 'fun police' and then vote for meteor again anyway. This is really nothing more than a case of 'play stupid games, win stupid prizes.' The entire server was told not to do something, you did it and got warned. I see no issue with that. The rest of this complaint about numbers of voting people and server pop is irrelevant.

If there's nothing else, this will be locked in 24 hours.

[tomatik]

1 hour ago, CampinKiller said:

The rest of this complaint about numbers of voting people and server pop is irrelevant.

You forgot to address the actual reason for the complaint, which is, the actual demand presented in the ticket, the followed compliance, and how he still went through with it.
while i agree with the OOC part, that shouldn't still allow for intentional misleading in ahelps.

1 hour ago, CampinKiller said:

The entire server was told not to do something, you did it and got warned

And i would've agreed if not for the bwoink, the bwoink and its contents are the issue here.

[CampinKiller]

24 minutes ago, tomatik said:

You forgot to address the actual reason for the complaint, which is, the actual demand presented in the ticket, the followed compliance, and how he still went through with it.
while i agree with the OOC part, that shouldn't still allow for intentional misleading in ahelps.

I don't find whether or not you had time to change your vote to be relevant when you were told not to do it in OOC a full 3 minutes (and a full vote!) before being messaged by kermit. Also, from what I recall of the logs, you did not comply, if you'd even had the chance. There wasn't any "intentional misleading," going on. You were the last person messaged in the group.

[tomatik]

5 minutes ago, CampinKiller said:

you did not comply, if you'd even had the chance

The wording goes as follows, "if you keep voting" and i haven't been voting since, i have also agreed to the terms given to me in a demand

[CampinKiller]

Your chance to comply was before you even were messaged by kermit.

In the interest of not going in circles, I'm going to lock it, but if you still have issue with the decision, you can make another complaint to head staff.