Lafayette's Z.I. Expansion

[Faye <3]

Lore Impact (Small/Medium/Large): Meeedium? 

Species: (Skrell, Tajara, Human, Vaurca, Dionae, Unathi, Synth, General) Synth, Human

Short Description: A total overhaul of the Z.I. synthetic background.

How will this be reflected on-station?: It will change the way Z.I. characters are played.

Does this addition do anything not achieved by what already exists?: Yes, it provides much needed substance and guidelines to a very popular option for synthetic characters while preserving as much as possible of existing Z.I. Includes a Zavodskoi Chief Robotics officer, four playable ZI lines, multiple paragraphs of lore, an entire synthetic sub-culture, handler interactions, etc. A major major issue of present Zavodskoi lore is that it is one of the most restrictive IPC backgrounds you can play, while also having next to no substance. This application aims to fix that by slightly relaxing those restrictions, while adding a ton of new lore to play around with.

Do you understand that the project may change over time in ways you may not foresee once it is handed over to the Lore Team? Yes.

Long Description: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NGUqN0wfwyAa5wi9YYDvT8pVsEOl3UV-ts7Uy0tq_h0/edit?usp=sharing

 

 

Edited Thursday at 02:35 by Faye <3

[Sneakyranger]

This is pretty well written.

I don't usually comment on LCAs since for the most part I think they speak for themselves, but I do wanna point out something in this one since I think it'll go unnoticed otherwise because the writing itself is interesting and cool.

In my opinion IPC lore has kind of been moving a lot towards just being more humanlike over the past year and change or so? I'm not a synth player so take that with a grain of salt but that's been my experience on the outside looking in, a lot of the more robotic behavior restrictions have kind of started getting laxed a bit (or maybe just less enforced) and I've not personally been too fond of that direction. 

So, basically, I think this stuff is really well written and honestly kind of kickass, but I personally just wanna say that I think, just from my point of view, that the actual content humanizes one of the last bastions of more robotic-RP IPCs too much. It really encourages more open and humanlike sociability in favor of a manipulation angle that I really think would be better for Idris while leaving Zavodskoi to be oppressive for players who want that kind of environment. I'll also kind of miss the default stereotypical Zavodskoi shell being intimidating emotionless types regularly wiped before they can form attachment or character. There's definitely a market for those kinds of characters if engineering industrials are anything to go by, and Aurora's also not allergic to having less-personality-filled characters (also thinkin' bout Viax).

 

A few examples of the humanization I'm talking about is Ritters being strangely friendly, Zavod culture fostering quippy work rivalries just as often as the bitter kind, and the mentor-mentee system. But it's really present throughout the whole document. I also think a lot of the hooks that were put in to give the manipulation angle more meat will not actually be used that much for conflict, like moving partners away from one another or stripping personalization off. 

 

If it were for Idris, I'd probably not mind it. It might work a lot better there from my POV.

Also, two more things:
1. Sorry, hate being negative on LCAs. 

2. Have kind of had this opinion on Synthlore as a whole for a bit and felt that this was a big move towards a direction I didn't like much. But, at the same time, I don't even have the whitelist, I just play with IPCs.

Just my 2c.

[Faye <3]

4 hours ago, Sneakyranger said:

yoink

Hi, thanks for your reply. Feedback good or bad is always appreciated.

My favorite part of the Synthetic whitelist is that it is so freeform that everyone can have their own opinion on what 'good' IPC roleplay is, and no one be either incorrect or correct. However, I have been almost exclusively a synthetic main since I joined Aurora five years ago and all throughout that time I have heard the argument that IPCs are becoming too humanlike. Now, of course this concern needs to be addressed, but the core issue is that everyone is going to have their own definition of what 'too human' means. Personally, I have always considered swearing and impulsive emotions to be the hard barrier for IPC roleplay, but I have seen IPCs swear in intriguing manners that have made me reconsider. I think that 'too human' is a very nebulous term and I try not to think in those terms as there is always a better writer than me who can use a concept I previously dismissed in an ingenious and creative manner. For example, something you single out is the R-Units being friendly. I would reply that, 'why wouldn't a customer facing robot be friendly and sociable?' Does being sociable not mean they are not also robotic? Are we defining robotic behaviors through a lack of friendliness, charm or sociability? Is playing a properly synthetic IPC an IPC that is cold and emotionless? That doesn't seem very apt to me. Or mentor-mentee system - would a synthetic not teach another synth if it needed it? Of course, playing a very outgoing and sociable robot without being 1:1 with an organic is one of the most challenging aspects of IPC roleplay, but it can certainly be done. 

That said, a step we can take to combat the opinion that IPCs are becoming 'too human' is to establish guidelines and boundaries. Zavodskoi exists in the extremely unenviable position of being perhaps the most restrictive background one could possibly play - short of Burszia, of course - while also having next to no lore. This means that every player has their own opinion for how a ZI should be played and feel, but worse, every player has an unsubstantiated headcanon that some of them may think should be the standard. This means that people will disagree fruitlessly as there is no lore or policy to point to and say, 'well, the official stance is this'. 

And to be frank, I think the idea of the 'intimidating emotionless types regularly wiped before they can form attachment or character' is a non-starter. To be frank, this is a roleplay server. Playing a character eternally stuck in groundhog day who never learns or develops from their interactions feels like a waste of time for everyone involved. I think that idea is stuck in the past. When was the last time you saw a Viax that wasn't a gimmick character, or merely a vessel to engage in mechanics with? Not that there is anything wrong with that, I do believe that if a player wants to play that sort of IPC or character, they should be able to do that. What I also believe is that there should be lore to support players who want to write something more than that, while also reserving space to play more of a killbot. That is why this application has basis for both complex, nuanced ZI, and basis to play simple killbots.

My goal for this application was to sort of condense the roleplay experiences and culture I have seen form with other Z.I. players in-game, and write that into canon. My primary inspiration for the cultural and inter-IPC relationships is the relationships and interactions between Z.I.s I have both written and observed. This application seeks to establish a culture and system for a ZI character so that there might be an established agreement on the personalization, formation of identity, expression of character etc while also preserving the grit, horror and dread of the life of a Zavodskoi synthetic. My hope is to implement a culture of bitter rivalries, horrific lows, and body horror punctuated by occasional bright spots of unity and togetherness as desperate synthetics attempt to care for one another as best they are able, and how those relationships can break down, change, and grow against a loaded deck and overwhelming odds.

 

Edited Thursday at 15:07 by Faye <3

[Sniblet]

Three security lines, one engineering, and nothing allowed for science and assistants. I wonder what departments this player plays in. And are Z.I.s ever bishops or mobility frames?

The incentives and disincentives of the Modern System are based on human trappings and social interaction, which rarely provide a more-than-negligible benefit toward self-preservation and, actually, lead to psychosocial development that could in turn cause dangerous, unwanted behavior. Many synthetics, most particularly the only Z.I. line that’s allowed to play warden, would not necessarily take a strong interest in success except as it pertains to protecting themselves.

Some, following my reasoning where oversocialization may cause deviance, could consider it most effective to finely ride the line between good behavior and risking wipes/NMC plugins, which madam Drexler would probably consider suboptimal.

To make this work, Z.I.s would have to be actively encouraged to value the things that the System could take away, because these wants do not come standard as they do in humans. Emphasize the idea that System success, and perhaps the approval of their colleagues (which is aided by being able to express themselves and build relationships - see System success) is an effective safeguard against destructive correction.

The System could benefit from being aesthetically more logical and synthetic. It was built by a synthetic sociologist with the intention of working on them. Maybe a point-score system, firm and reliable rules, and some way to guarantee that missteps are caught and counted even when the handler isn’t watching.

The neuro-matrix corrective is an interesting idea. It feels like constantly failing to adequately follow self-preservation, and combined with time dilation (an exceptional technology! Konyang has a page that features it and that’s it - Zavodskoi would be very protective of this unique software) inflicts most synthetics with a lasting feeling of fear, anxiety, and powerlessness unmatched by most mortal experiences. I can see how this could correct a deviant, and I also see how this could make a synthetic worse. Jumping at shadows, unsure about their motor functions, after five years spent unstoppably scared and incapable of movement at more than a fraction of a thousandth of standard speed. Would they be able to delete any of this memory? If they could get rid of all of it, the correction would be useless - if only part of it or none at all, that’s finite drive space permanently lost to this recollection.

The NMC dramatically loses efficacy if the synthetic has gone so sorely awry as to redefine their self-preservation law. For such cases, Zavodskoi has wipes. Handlers would be quite watchful for signs that the SP law is going deviant, because if it fails then wiping becomes the only reliable corrective option.

Edited Friday at 17:13 by Sniblet

[Faye <3]

1 hour ago, Sniblet said:

Three security lines, one engineering, and nothing allowed for science and assistants. I wonder what departments this player plays in. And are Z.I.s ever bishops or mobility frames?

Ouch? I used the previously established acceptable frames for my rework, being shells and baselines and no Hephaestus frames. If synthlore believes that mobility frames ought to be added, I have no issue with that and they are welcome to do so - not that it's my call, of course. I do not think I need to write for assistants, and science is well - science. Again, if synthlore wants to add onto this, they may.

1 hour ago, Sniblet said:

The incentives and disincentives of the Modern System are based on human trappings and social interaction, which rarely provide a more-than-negligible benefit toward self-preservation and, actually, lead to psychosocial development that could in turn cause dangerous, unwanted behavior. Many synthetics, most particularly the only Z.I. line that’s allowed to play warden, would not necessarily take a strong interest in success except as it pertains to protecting themselves.

I completely disagree. Security and to a lesser extent engineering are socially driven jobs. Understanding how to navigate a social network, establishing rapports and integrating yourself into the social climate of your workplace is one of the most important and valuable tools of a security officer, and it stands to reason to me that Zavodskoi would see this as a boon and encourage it. A ZI who can be sociable and is trusted by the crew will be able to execute their job far more easily. A ZI who is trusted and liked may be tipped off to certain things, may find people coming to them about their issues, etc. Engineering has a very strong workplace culture as well, and while you can play a fixit you should not have to. Also, I again completely disagree that the Z.I.A / warden units would not be sociable. They can develop complex and divergent personalities, they're just not designed to be as capably social as the N or R types. And more on that, IPCs can often have a preset personality. Hazels come out of the box being charming and sociable because it is their job to be. Just because a unit is sociable does not mean they are particularly more complex than say, a G2 who just fixes things. It is divergence from this baseline that complexity comes from.

Additionally, status is a shield for Z.I.s. If a high status unit makes a mistake, they are far more likely to have comforts and privileges be taken away rather than being wiped. Inversely, if a low status unit makes a mistake, they are far more likely for their punishment to be wiping. This encourages a culture of constant amassing of status, as status very literally is a shield and is tied to self preservation. The higher you are, the further you can fall. If you're already at the bottom, there is almost nothing to keep you from hitting the ground.

1 hour ago, Sniblet said:

 

The System could benefit from being aesthetically more logical and synthetic. It was built by a synthetic sociologist with the intention of working on them. Maybe a point-score system, firm and reliable rules, and some way to guarantee that missteps are caught and counted even when the handler isn’t watching.

The issue of establishing firm rules and catching missteps when the Handler isn't watching is that there still needs to be wiggle room for the players to develop their characters, to circumvent their handlers and carefully push the boundaries of what is allowed without going too far and invoking disaster. That's half the fun of playing a Z.I. 

1 hour ago, Sniblet said:

The NMC dramatically loses efficacy if the synthetic has gone so sorely awry as to redefine their self-preservation law. For such cases, Zavodskoi has wipes. Handlers would be quite watchful for signs that the SP law is going deviant, because if it fails then wiping becomes the only reliable corrective option.

I did want to write that veteran ZI units would typically become quite jaded in their quote on quote old age from a lifetime of maintaining their status and being observed, and may choose to withdraw from the social aspect of their work, but to be frank I ran out of wordcount to expand on that. Maybe synthlore can do something with this, if they so choose.

Edited Friday at 16:05 by Faye <3

[Sniblet]

> what department does this player play

I am contractually obligated to poke fun at secmains at all opportunities; I’m sure you understand (I probably should’ve been more obviously playful up-front, sorry).

Also, the only Z.I. I play is in science, so I felt their neglect.

> bishops, mobility frames

I remembered after writing that Zavod has a feud with Zeng too. It’s just that they’re the only frames not mentioned in the write up, and for the sake of completeness they ought to be.

> Modern System incentives mattering to synths

If I understand correctly, officers are meant to care for their incentives because -

-they make them better at their job.

-being better at their job makes them less likely to lose incentives (assuming they care) and fall closer to destructive correction (they must care).

So, read inversely, the company penalizes unwanted behaviors by making their workers less efficient workers, and putting them on track to failing more. We do this sort of thing in real life and all, but surely something intended to be better than the Burzsian method would be… better. Especially if you’re trying to train a synthetic, and you know how synthetics think.

If a Z.I. is not in a social role, the System is largely redundant. Is it really a shield? Is the company not going to wipe you because they allow you to have stickers on your labcoat and they have to take that privilege first, even though you don’t wear them anyway because they don’t mean anything to you?

Something has to be done here - synthetics need an incentive that they will always care about in order for this to be recognized as an improvement over institutionalized Groundhog Day. Maybe they all have to be taught to see their roles as social, but that neuters Z.I. killbot mains of all departments and makes Zavod the one company that encourages all of its synthetics to want to act human, despite being headquartered on Moroz.

i’ll, like, bullet-point my thoughts or something in a bit. this seems disorganized and i don’t know if it’s coming across

Edited Friday at 18:07 by Sniblet

[Shimmer]

1 hour ago, Sniblet said:

but that neuters Z.I. killbot mains of all departments and makes Zavod the one company that encourages all of its synthetics to want to act human, despite being headquartered on Moroz.

We are a roleplaying server oriented around characters that develop and grow. I'm sorry, but 'killbot' characters need to die as a concept because there is no meaningful character involved there. It's one step removed from playing a security borg.

 

Where Zavodskoi is headquartered is irrelevant. It's not a Dominian corporation. It's Solarian. It does not share the values, beliefs, motives, or goals of the Empire. The only reason Zavodskoi has so much influence in Dominia is because Zavodskoi is a weapon's manufacturing giant, they're the literal MIC.

 

Zavodskoi isn't tribunalist. It never will be. It's a corporation, it has sway in Dominia because it sells a lot of shit in Dominia, and it picks Moroz as it's new headquarters because it can influence Dominia a helluva lot more than it can the Alliance.

[Sniblet]

3 hours ago, Faye &lt;3 said:

Additionally, status is a shield for Z.I.s. If a high status unit makes a mistake, they are far more likely to have comforts and privileges be taken away rather than being wiped. Inversely, if a low status unit makes a mistake, they are far more likely for their punishment to be wiping. This encourages a culture of constant amassing of status, as status very literally is a shield and is tied to self preservation. The higher you are, the further you can fall. If you're already at the bottom, there is almost nothing to keep you from hitting the ground.

The issue of establishing firm rules and catching missteps when the Handler isn't watching is that there still needs to be wiggle room for the players to develop their characters, to circumvent their handlers and carefully push the boundaries of what is allowed without going too far and invoking disaster. That's half the fun of playing a Z.I. 

Okay! I'm in place to communicate clearly.

Sorry for opening with a jab, I constantly forget that these forums are not a particularly casual environment. Zeng frames weren't mentioned in the writeup and I thought that they should be - this doesn't really matter, Zavod does not in fact use them.

Most important to me is the incentive thing. Say you're a factory-new, freshly-wiped, or otherwise socially stunted synthetic.

Spoiler

Your one fear is death. As part of your onboarding, you have been instructed that if you do not work well, you will die. If you do work well, you gain at least the following benefits:

• Extranet access. You can use this to learn how to work better.
• Better accommodation. You do not care. If you can charge, you can then get back to work at full readiness. If you have a couch, you will have to step around it on your way up to the work deck.
• Infrequent off-duty hours for socialization. Whether this matters to you depends on whether you have calculated that making friends aids your work. If you have not made this calculation, you will not use this time. If your handler is the sort of person who gets suspicious of synthetics who act too humanlike (Zavod's HQ is on Moroz, it primarily manufactures military synthetics, and many of its employees are Solarian), this seems to you to be a trap.
• The right to personalize your equipment. See above.
• Presence of friendly units. You don't have friends.
• You might not die. THIS IS IMPORTANT!!

So, most of this system does not apply to you. You're just as easily controlled by the classic method of the threat of death should your handler not like the way your development is looking.

Say you're an older, specifically security synthetic.

Spoiler

It's been some time since last you died. Your mind is a bit of a tangled web of priorities, and you fear things like social isolation and looking bad, as well as death. For this year's annual performance review, you had a new handler. You did not meet their standards, because you did not know what they were. You stand to lose the following:

• Extranet access. You were researching the dynamics of body language-based intimidation online before the review. Now you cannot.
• Better accommodation. You were using this to host office parties with the crew; now, you are losing this opportunity to build trust with your charges.
• Infrequent off-duty hours for socialization. You had a friend who found you intimidating in uniform, and would generally avoid you if you tried to meet on-duty. They are no longer your friend. Also, THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
• The right to personalize your equipment. You have lost access to a joke about the sticker on your armor, that you used to take advantage of to get people at ease. Also, THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
• Presence of friendly units. See all of the above. Also, THIS IS IMPORTANT!!
• You might not die. THIS IS IMPORTANT!!

The penalty that you have suffered has made you a worse worker. You are more likely to fail the next performance review; more importantly, as your efficacy declines, Zavod benefits less from you. You could rebound and get back to full functionality, but what did these penalties do that a sternly worded death threat alone would not have done? You don't need more things to fear in order to realize that you should correct yourself. A human might, but you see your self-preservation directive being contradicted for no particular benefit and you're like, "oh, shit, I'm fixing that immediately."

Zavod's just piling on problems that mainly sabotage itself here.

tl;dr:

> a synthetic who feels as though they have something to lose will have far more incentive to behave

This is true. Currently, that thing is their life. It's the one thing that all synthetics (unless they're intolerably overdeveloped) do not want to lose. The rest of the stuff that's currently listed is secondary to their life (which is already at threat) as far as the synthetic is concerned, and letting them have it aids their productivity by encouraging social growth, which this system is explicitly trying to promote; taking it away is counterproductive, and not really more effective for fixing the synthetic than wiggling the guillotine lever would be.

 

3 hours ago, Faye &lt;3 said:

Additionally, status is a shield for Z.I.s. If a high status unit makes a mistake, they are far more likely to have comforts and privileges be taken away rather than being wiped. Inversely, if a low status unit makes a mistake, they are far more likely for their punishment to be wiping. This encourages a culture of constant amassing of status, as status very literally is a shield and is tied to self preservation. The higher you are, the further you can fall. If you're already at the bottom, there is almost nothing to keep you from hitting the ground.

Status is already a shield, in the sense that a handler is not as interested in wiping a unit that they like. I'm not seeing what this rework adds to change the way status works, other than comforts and privileges. If a unit is not interested in its comforts and privileges, then it doesn't care about status except in the sense that it is a barrier separating it from death. This is the same as where we are now.

3 hours ago, Faye &lt;3 said:

The issue of establishing firm rules and catching missteps when the Handler isn't watching is that there still needs to be wiggle room for the players to develop their characters, to circumvent their handlers and carefully push the boundaries of what is allowed without going too far and invoking disaster. That's half the fun of playing a Z.I. 

True, except for the last sentence, because I play Z.I. because I enjoy being something much less than a person from time to time.

59 minutes ago, Shimmer said:

We are a roleplaying server oriented around characters that develop and grow. I'm sorry, but 'killbot' characters need to die as a concept because there is no meaningful character involved there. It's one step removed from playing a security borg.

See above. I see here that you don't think my braindead character is meaningful. I'm not calling you out on that. It's good actually, because I don't either. Only, I don't think that's a bad thing, because playing one can be gratifying. This is also a setting where such characters exist, and reminders of that can be used to support your immersion as a real human character.

59 minutes ago, Shimmer said:

Where Zavodskoi is headquartered is irrelevant. It's not a Dominian corporation. It's Solarian. It does not share the values, beliefs, motives, or goals of the Empire. The only reason Zavodskoi has so much influence in Dominia is because Zavodskoi is a weapon's manufacturing giant, they're the literal MIC.

 

Zavodskoi isn't tribunalist. It never will be. It's a corporation, it has sway in Dominia because it sells a lot of shit in Dominia, and it picks Moroz as it's new headquarters because it can influence Dominia a helluva lot more than it can the Alliance.

I see your point, but Solarian isn't a whole lot better, is it?

[Sniblet]

The block quote at the start of the above doesn't mean anything. I used it as a reference while composing and forgot to delete it. I can't save my attempts to edit the post. I guess I'll do something with this one.

Generally, I like this. Z.I. lore is thin and nonstandardized. Personally, when I first saw Ritter, I was like "wait how do you think he's getting away with acting like this" because in my world, Z.I.s don't really get to develop personalities. It'd be cool to have room for how everyone wants to play. My core objection is that for this change to make sense, no one has to want to play like I do. If it's going to make sense, it would have to strip the appeal of playing Z.I. for me, because the incentive structure does not make sense if Zavodskoi is not encouraging all of them to be social and humane.

Edited Friday at 20:58 by Sniblet

[Faye <3]

nothing in this rework stops you from playing a simplistic ZI.  if you want to make your own ZI that is a very simple research unit and does not engage with wider ZI culture, you can do that. the goal of this addition is to give substance and guidelines to players who want to play something more complex.

40 minutes ago, Sniblet said:

quote

 

Edited Friday at 21:31 by Faye <3