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Yes, that was not the best situation for me (the bar one). But, like i said, you should understand - if a person is aiming at someone or is using special action that prepares remote signaler to send signal to a bomb - the shot WILL go off and the signal WILL be sent even if you oneshot the person - it's called a reflex shot/signal (the finger on the trigger will twitch if a person is attacked - it's a game mechanics). So you just said that if you'd have a shotgun (or even bartender's one loaded with beanbag shot, which is not very effective) - you'd try to take a shot, which would automatically result in a death of a hostage (an uncloneable one, if the hostage is aimed on with a revolver/shotgun with battle ammunition), even if you stun/instakill me. I don't think i support your decision - it'd ruin a round for at least one innocent person (or more, if there is a bomb) who could be possibly remain unharmed, it'd prevent a possibly interesting RP situation, and you certainly would be fired if there's a good HoS/Captain (at least that's how it's done on some of my favorite NON-Heavy RP servers) . But it's your decision, and i respect that, of course. Thanks for your input, Valkrae!

OP, I agree that it doesn't make much sense for a Nuke Op to have a neat conversations with the crew of the station, or for chabgeling - a vicious hunter whose only goal is to absorb puny humans' genomes to do the same. But rules are still rules. Owners of the server make them, and players who want to play on their server have to respect those rules. They host the server, spend time and money so those who are willing can play there. Like one of the admins explained to me, any situation that leads to the killing have to be roleplayed. As a nuke, feel free to take hoatages and kill them if they try to resist, or as a changeling feel free to kill the depressed officer who was invited by you, disguised as a psychiatrist on a session. Or if you are in a hurry and are being pursued, you can cut pursuers' leg off if you feel like it. Antagonists here are not about nuke or syndicate, they are about making the situations that can provide fun for players participating. I do not always agree with this, sometimes it feels weird, and sometimes other players are powerplaying against you without respecting the rules. It can let anybody down, but we shouldn't stop our attempts to RP properly or from abiding the rules. Report people who are breaking the rules, and sooner or later Aurora will become a proper RP server where you can trust any other player to pick up your roleplaying without trying to powergame you. Admins are doing their best. I am sure that if you acknowledge your mistake and promise to play on Aurora the way it's meant yo be played by server owner(s), you would be given a second chance. We need good players, and some of the best of them come from those who made some mistakes once and have experience that helps them to prevent from doing it again.

Thanks for your advices, Jennalele. I try to act exactly as you described, but, like i said here multiple times, it seems that lives of a hostage don't give criminal ANY leverage. Sometimes the hostage will rush and try to disarm you with bare hands, without any regard for his life, and sometimes security officer who was walking nearby will just rush in, knowing that his actions WILL result in a hostage deaths. My problem is with that mostly, forget the bar situation, which, i admit, is not an example of flawless planning, i'm talking about lack of players' regard to life in generally. Every time i observe or participate in hostage situations i observe the situation going trainwreck because someone does not respect Aurora's rules - act like your character woild realistically act, no powergaming, no metagaming.

Errr... Yeah, you right... It's explained in the OP-post, in the "reason" section.

Erik Tiber, thanks for your input. For your information, with a powerful gun, especially one using bullets, one shot is enough to blow hostage's head off completely, making cloning unavailable. Also, if a person aims on somebody or is using special action that makes him prepare remote signaler to send a signal to blow up a bomb, no matter what happens to this person - stun, death or anything - will still make his finger twitch by reflex and make a shot/blow up a bomb. No matter how much armed security officers there, the hostage will die and be rendered uncloneable/bomb will go off. Not many people care about that, and, like you, 95% of players will attempt an armed rescue if they feel confident, without any regard for hostage's life, which makes hostage situations and RP they can produce almost impossible to play out. I tend not to use that, when other players don't seem to want to help me play it out, because nothing good will come out of it, and at least one person's round will be ruined. I think hostage situations can enrich RP experience on heavy RP server like an Aurora. Like i suggested, it would be nice if there'd be some addition to SOP or CR about hostage situations. How security should act and such. Even when security's actions result in a dead body, no one seems to care, and admins say it's an RP situation. Don't know how it's done in spess, but IRL police forces won't try to "shoot now talk later" when a criminal's finger is on the trigger. Dunno how it's done in Murrica though, i heard your cops are pretty harsh. Anyway, when security's rescue attempt results in a death, no one cares and there are absolutely no consequences to the person whose actions resulted in a death of a hostage. This seems a bit unfair. I think guidelines should be added for such situations, based on IRL procedures. If server staff would be interested, i can try to find some material, though, as you can see, my Engrish is simply terribad (from russia with love <3). There should be some reprecussions for a spontaneous rescue attmept resulting in death of a hostage for a person who failed it and/or acted not accordingly to guidelines. Like a 3-day security job-ban, or something like this, it's an RP server after all. Don't think i'm raging or something, i just honestly think hostage situations can enrich RP on our favorite server, especially for antags and security. I saw and participated in quite some situations like that in Aurora, and they go trainwreck most of the time. Security have no idea how to act, and antags are twitchy and unsure if their RP atempt is going to be supported or not and expect to be powerplayed by sec or just a passing assistant (former war hero deathsquad ert spetsnaz operative) with a toolbox.Probably that should go in suggestions, but i decided to post it here, since it semms to be kind of relevant. Thanks for reading my post ^_______^

I aimed gun at some random person sitting at the corner counter, sipping his drink. Maybe he was a detective, still, i had my gun aimed to his head and two seconds passed.

I never heard of situations like that. Maybe you have some examples in mind, when there were hostage taken, the person who took hostages is standing right next to one of them with a deadly gun pointed to his head, threatening to kill everybody if they don't get down on the floor, and while he is staying like that with a hostage, another person casually walks a few meters, takes his shogtun and aiming it on the criminal, while he's still holding a gun next to a person's head, and when there are few people nearby and between the person with a shotgun? And when said shotgun is loaded with beanbag round, which is basically an LTL round consisting of a cloth filled with lead shot, which can be shot accruately for about five meters, no more. All while the criminal has his lethal gun's barrel next to the head of a hostage. If this person was with a military background, he should've known that beanbag round probably won't even hit, and surely won't prevent a criminal from firing the round in the person's head. Of course i haven't killed the person, since when the situation goes haywire like this, there's no point on wasting time to kill the hostage - no one cares about his life, obviously, and i didn't want to ruin some random person's round. That's exactly why i made this appeal and why i think this is not only an IC issue. Think about it, what would you do if you were on bartender's place? Especially if you were an off-duty security officer, whose duty is to protect the crew of the station, and who definitely knows that that energy gun pointed at the hostage's head is set on kill. Would you reach for your shotgun, armed with less-than-lethal rounds, consisting of a cloth bags that do have horrible ballistic properties and can't fly straight unless shot point blank? I don't think so, especially if you are sane person and an off-duty security officer. I've never heard of a situations like that. Why would anybody risk life of a person this way? I mean, seriously? Defending your store from a criminals while they are trying to rob you is completely different story. I probably should've behaved differently, but when i saw a person who walked a few meters and reached for the gun while a criminal was holding the gun right to hostage's head, it didn't seem to me that he's a huge fan of talking. Next time i'll use a gun and a bomb. And when some janitor (off-duty deathsquad, of course) will try to disarm me with his mop while i'm holding one finger on the detonator and have gun aimed on his head, we'll talk about IC issues . Again, thanks for your time!

First of all, i do have a right to make an appeals. It's kind of sad to see admins tell me that "And now rather than realize where you were wrong you come here to continue to argue about the situation that was quite clearly handled ICly". You said "No one shot at you or pulled a gun before you shot at the barman." - i tried to explain that i was being aimed before i pulled the gun on a bartender and got a ban and no answer. Of course i continued my rant here on the forums. I don't excatly think that you are wrong, but of course since you are admin, i respect your judgement. It does not agree i can't argue about it - that's what this forum is for. Secondly - seems like every player has some kind of military background and is an off-duty superhero or a military officer. That's kind of weird, isn't it? And when i go gosting it's my own business, isn't it? I was, like, 6 AM, and i decided to have some sleep. Well, then i had to make an appeal here. And now it's time to go to work ;_;. Anyway, my point is - hostage situations never get any RP here - at least in my experience (not only as a person who is taking hostages). It always goes haywire when a one of civillian - an off-duty space spetznaz/Own Man superhero guy starts trying to take the situation in his hands, while endangering lives of other people. That's not how civilian personnel of the station should act. But again, everyone seems to have some kind of military background, so it's always okay or "we'll add a note about this to his profile, but it's mostly an IC situation that a civilian person who's being aimed on disregarded his own safety and tried to do stuff". And nothing ever improve. And we have constant influx of a new player too, which doesn't help the situation. To avoid this situations and "raging" ahelps not unlike mine, there should be some guidelines for hostage situation, addition to the rules, SOP, or whatever. Some nice RP situation can happen from taking hostages, and, since antags here don't get much targets, hostage situations do have some RP'ish perspectives. Anyway, thanks for your attention. I can definitely live with 24 hours ban.

BYOND Key: Data13 Total Ban Length: 24 hours Banning staff member's Key: SueTheCake Reason of Ban: Reason: Continued argument in ahelps after being told to stop on several occassions; ghosted as a traitor immediately when caught because was obviously angry things did not go his way. Dayban. . Reason for Appeal: I tried to take hostages in the bar. My actions: Coming to the bar. Announcing that i will kill everybody if they won't get down on the floor. Aiming the gun at the civilian person sitting at the bar table. After that a bartender went for his shotun, though there were a multiple civilians between me and him, and aimed me. I started shooting. Why would bartender try to reach for his gun if there are multiple civilians in the room, and the person who is threatening to kill them is aiming one right now? Isn't it a powergaming? It's like a bartender is some kind of superhero, who doesn't afraid to go with his less-than-lethan gun for a person with a deadly laser who is aiming one of his customers in the head. I tried to ahelp, because i considered this situation a bit powergamish (like every hostage situation that happens here on Aurora in my experience - no one ever tires to negotiate or has any regard for their or others' lives). I explained the situation, and Sue told me, quote: She was wrong, because bartender reached for his gun BEFORE i aimed him, and done that after i announced my threats and aimed at random bar's customer. I tried to explain that Sue is wrong, that i haven't done anything before bartender aimed me, a person armed with deadly gun aimed to the head of civilian person, but shortly i received a 24 hour ban. Again, she said I tried to prove her wrong - bartender pulled a gun at me before i started shooting, but got the 24 hour ban. Log: I know sometimes a very brave shop owner can pull a gun when his shop is being robbed. But pulling a less-than-lethal gun as a bartender om a person have a hostage and is threatening to start killing people - isn't that a little powergameish? And after that some civilian picked my energy gun and blew my hands off while i was cuffed. Of course i ghosted. Space Jesus! There should be some kind of addition to the rules or SOP that explains how people should act in hostage situation, because this is getting ridiculous. Thanks!