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ZetaGundumb

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  1. (Bauser's response) I don't know how many other ways I can possibly say this, but AGAIN... no. He did not exclude my character because they hadn't met. He excluded my character on the basis that they HAD met and he determined Major to be untrustworthy - and my complaint is (still) that this is impossible, because they had not met, and instead it was LordRaven's OOC knowledge which informed his decision. That was the basis of my complaint of metagaming. This was made apparent in the player complaint, and again in the original post here, so... we're up to attempt #3, for those counting. Without insulting your intelligence by playing ping-pong anymore with your entire text, I will point out that Directive 2 states, in the absence of a Captain, if there's only one head of staff, that head of staff wields the authority of acting captain. Just because the CMO wouldn't be experienced in security matters, strategic authority is still his. So even if the CMO didn't give Ming any orders to disobey, Ming's abject willingness to go around him is entirely disagreeable. And I will rhetorically ask "What kind of investigation requires the tactical command of officers for any reason but information-gathering?" Maybe we just have different thoughts about what investigate means. EDIT: OK, we have arrived at a conclusion before accurately determining the complaint, but alright. I guess I just won't bother anymore.
  2. Bauser is making this player complaint through my account as a proxy. I am not involved, all writing is his, I am only posting it for him. BYOND Key: BauserStaff BYOND Key: HouseOfSynthGame ID: Detailed in https://forums.aurorastation.org/topic/11095-resolved-player-complaint-lordraven001/Reason for complaint: I'm contesting HouseOfSynth's decision on the complaint. I just found the ruling to fly in the face of reason, is all. My chief concern is here, for two reasons. First, characterizing the actions of the round as an investigation at all fails to properly describe that the detective was acting primarily in an enforcement role, not support or analysis. That's a problem on its own, because detectives are defined as a support & analysis job specifically to counteract their infamous history in SS13 as egotistic police-commandos. Saying that this behavior is not an issue makes a clear statement that detectives are both a physical role (I.E. carrying out direct action) and above officers in the security hierarchy. That would make sense in a real police force, where detectives are officers first, but on Aurora, detectives are inspectors - they don't have brig access and can't make actual arrests, by design. The wiki describes their duties as "an assistant to security," their most authoritative job being "coordinating" (not commanding) investigations. Furthermore, "investigation" is a word that's been used a lot in these proceedings to make it sound like detective Ming was investigating, when what he was doing was really (as obviously described in the logs provided) commanding troops. He did not have an investigation. He had a warpath. Secondly, the premise of his judgement is that it wasn't an issue "if there's no overruling authority," but there clearly was an overruling authority. There was a head of staff. More than that, it was a head of staff whose wishes/goals were not aligned with Ming's. Chief Medical Officer Gonzales was the highest-ranking officer on the station, and as the only command member present, he was detective Ming's direct superior. It's true that a chief medical officer would not have much understanding of how to carry out security enforcement, but the expansive scope of Ming's actions is such that he would still need the approval of his command structure in order to carry it out (E.G. he should have asked the CMO if he could command security officers.) Instead, he actively went against the wishes of the CMO (as described in the previous thread) and hid his operation from him. So, directly contrary to HouseOfSynth's ruling, a detective taking charge the way that LordRaven did is both 1) an issue and 2) it was done in spite of an overruling authority. This wording displays a misunderstanding of the complaint that was made, on this point. The reason that Ming excluded Major was not "because they hadn't met." It could make sense for a security member to be skeptical of someone they don't know. But the reason that Ming excluded Major was that LordRaven (as a player) found Major to be untrustworthy, despite the fact that Ming and Major had never met. Therefore, whatever previous experience LordRaven may have had in mind was not the experience of his character, Ming. And the word for that isn't "iffy," it's "prohibited." It's specifically against the rules to use meta knowledge in the way LordRaven said he did, and even worse, he did it for the purpose of getting a supposed in-game advantage (making sure he caught the antags, above all else). And... not that this is really the salient issue, but I find it worth noting for the general reputation of my character: There was also no legitimate reason for him, as a player, to think Major would be detrimental to his team (since, as was testified by CampinKiller in the previous thread, the character does not make a habit of alerting security suspects that they are being pursued). So even the theoretical basis for LordRaven's defense (of the actions that HouseOfSynth described as "a dick move") was untruthful. Additional remarks: In summary, LordRaven admitted doing things that are against the rules (1. validhunting behavior as a detective and 2. metagaming), and he justified doing so by lying about my character. That's why I think the complaint should be revisited. I don't have any problem with HouseOfSynth at all, I just think his decision failed to enforce the server rules. It is my opinion that he was nice but, in being so, neglected to carry out the job that he was tasked with doing. The fact that the complaint sat without comment for two weeks further suggests to me that it probably was not given a lot of thought/attention.
  3. (Bauser's response) Raven's nitpicking the definition of "antagonistic" is desperate and backwards, considering 1) his dictionary-definition of antagonism is not the definition we use in-game (antagonism in Aurora involves creating tangible obstacles or dangers in a round, not just being mean to each other) and 2) it describes the way that Ming treated Major first (recall that our first abrasive interaction was me saying I didn't know why we were detaining someone, and Ming's response was essentially telling me to STFU and do what he says without knowing why). It's true that some people in OOC after the round accused me of being a poor sport for complaining about your behavior, but critically, everyone will notice that the people saying those things are the ones who didn't actually know what happened between our characters that round. I will grant you that you had the full support of the demographic "people who didn't know what they were talking about." The reason I said you also hung the other cadet up to dry (Brock Harkoni) is that I saw that his player said in OOC after the round that he had to entertain himself for a lack of being involved. That message is another undeniable truth which will be apparent in the logs. This, in conjunction with Ming telling Major his speech about cadets not getting to be involved, suggested to me that you had acted similarly dismissive or ignorant towards him. So while it's true that I don't know the round he experienced, from his perspective, all the evidence that I could see suggested that you weren't any more forthcoming to him. Hopefully I'm wrong about that. IF it's true (big if) that Ming and Major have been in rounds together in the past, I have no recollection of them, and as such I certainly don't believe the characters met even if they were concurrent at any time. Thank you for admitting, though, that you made the conscious choice to screw me over because you don't like my character. There is no substance whatsoever to your counterclaims, and your threats to "press for administrative action" are flatly pathetic. I'm not getting defensive, because my character and behavior aren't on trial here, and I trust the administration to see clearly through your awkward, transparent attempt at spin. Resi and Campinkiller, thank you both for taking the time to contribute to this. If I had known ahead of time that I was inviting you a crucifixion, I would have put a warning in the title. EDIT: Forgot to mention... "Insubordination" is a word we've been throwing around a bunch, so it's also worth noting that Major never actually subverted or refused to follow any orders that were given to him by HoS-detective Ming. I initially told the engineer that they weren't being detained, because I was never told before that the engineer WAS supposed to be detained, and afterward, I took them to the medical bay in line with Ming's instruction (which was what Major wanted to do, to start with, something that's also apparent in our IC conversation). The most insubordinate thing I did was say "You're not the boss of me" after describing that what I meant was "If a crewmember is hurt, I'm going to help them." These things will be outwardly apparent when you look at the little spiel I gave on the Security radio.
  4. (Bauser's response) Your claim that Major acted antagonistically is so wildly unfounded that it would be insulting if it wasn't meaningless. Accusing me of being antagonistic and accusing me of having a loudmouth attitude can't be construed as anything but projection... The only interaction we had in-person was Major telling Ming he had no idea why Ming wanted to take the engineer in for questioning. This was when Ming went off on him, chastising Major for supposed insubordination. Because how dare a cadet want to know why he's detaining someone, right? And the only time Major acted even remotely problematic was after Ming chastised him and accused him of being insubordinate, Major went on the sec radio to speak his grievance about the detective acting as a HoS, and all he did was tell Ming ''You're not the boss of me'' (this was my IC attempt to resolve what we ultimately can see is an OOC issue). This was purely a spoken complaint, and Major did nothing to act against the interests of the security department. Anyway, like I said earlier, this was the first round Ming ever met Major, so it's impossible that this preconception of Major as some security-traitor was formed in-character. If there's any legitimacy to LordRaven's concept of Major as untrustworthy, it would necessarily have been formed from OOC knowledge and therefore metagaming as well (and in either case, it evidences the truth that you were firstly concerned with winning). Finally, you say that you also included "every cadet other than Major" in your plans, but there's no evidence that this is true, either. The player of the only other cadet character, Brock Harkoni, said in OOC after the round that he was also in the dark the whole time, and he just entertained himself for the round. Other than that, I make no contest. Anyone who looks into the logs - even if they just look at the logs I've provided and the testimony here - will clearly see that you did everything you're accused of and that you're not sorry about it. I have you dead-to-rights.
  5. (Bauser's response) Honestly, this approach is even more disagreeable. This was the first round Major ever met Ming, so by this statement, it is necessarily true that you were using meta (OOC) knowledge in order to run "your" security department. Even though, to start with, your attitude that Major warning the crew about dangers (like someone sucking out people's blood) is somehow a bad thing further demonstrates your attitude that you play security for the purpose of winning. Most of the crew isn't security, and you have shown at every turn a willingness to cut people out of the game if it has any chance of helping you win. I've seen this attitude repeated in three separate rounds since this incident, as well. After the round that started with Skrell-only security, you bragged about "kicking ass and taking names" with them, and there was an autotraitor round whereafter you bragged about capturing 4 of the 6 antags - literally every single time I see Ming, the end result of the round is you being proud of how good you are at winning. Again yesterday, I saw you order the research director to raise the alert level over the public radio, and you literally said "Director, raise the alert level. I'll brief you on it later." Think about that; Ming literally orders around command with the justification that he can explain it after he's got his win. "Hey, head of staff, raise the alert level, I'll tell you why later." Your gameplay is motivated purely by winning, and no matter how much you say this is taken out of context, tbear will see that you spent the round (and every round you play as Ming) concerned with nothing but how to shut down the antags most effectively, with no concern for the game it ultimately creates for other players. If an antagonist was played the way you play detective Ming, they would be banned from being an antagonist. As a member of security, you have the same responsibility as antags do: drive roleplay. You consciously neglect this responsibility when you play Ming.
  6. On the instruction of moderator ReadThisNamePlz, Bauser is making this player complaint through my account as a proxy. I am not involved, all writing is his, I am only posting it for him. BYOND Key: Bauser Player Byond Key: LordRaven001 Game ID: The round BEFORE Game ID bXE-dtEI (I took this ID at 12-4-2018 5:30PM EST) (That ID might have a lowercase L at the end instead of a capital I, I couldn't really tell) Approximate Date/Time: December 4, 2018, ~3-5PM EST Staff involved: N/A Did you attempt to adminhelp the issue at the time? If so, what was the known action taken by administration/moderation? No. I didn't Reason for complaint: I have two primary complaints. 1) Detective Zer-Qin Ming'Yelx (played by LordRaven001) spent the entire round acting like a Head of Security, ordering officers around in a tactical capacity and justifying it by saying it was all "part of his investigation." In reality, it came across as a bloodthirsty manhunt to the exclusion of any RP outside his circle of soldiers. 2) Despite this, he made active efforts to isolate both the cadet members of security, Adrien Major (played by me (Bauser)) and Brock Harkoni, away from this gameplay. He didn't share a single detail of his security operation, which became a problem when Major happened upon one of his suspects by chance. Major, seeing that the individual appeared wounded, moved to take the suspect to the medical bay, only to be intercepted by detective Ming and chastised for doing what was the CORRECT thing to do considering that Major had no knowledge of the detective's operation. Detective Ming made it clear that the cadets were expressly forbidden from having any involvement in the security work of that round. ________________________________________ And there is plenty of evidence for both of those claims. He felt in-charge enough to make decisions about what alert level the station should be on... And he felt in-charge enough to subvert the ACTUAL command. Immediately after the CMO made that announcement, Ming went on the public radio to assure everyone that there was no real danger, and assure me personally that he was right to spin this peaceful falsehood because he didn't want to spook the suspects in his investigation. When I woke up from SSD (my power went out) and discovered someone had forced a cigarette into my mouth, I tried to bring it up over radio... But his control of the department was thorough enough that he didn't even want to let me talk, for fear it would jeopardize whatever he was doing. Obviously, I had no idea why he wanted me to stop talking, since he never shared any information at all with me. I wasn't even informed that he was running any cohesive security operation until late in the round, when I accidentally bumped into him in the middle of it. Before then, all I knew was he was ordering officers around. In total, playing with him was actively detrimental to my experience at every single turn. It's okay to have an asshole character, but you can only get away with it if you're an asshole character who generates RP for the people you antagonize - and LordRaven's detective did nothing for me except push me out of the round and then act like a monumental jerk when I tried to participate. And even despite all this, I would be willing to forgive this poor quality of play if he had at least shown some tiny bit of remorse for how it totally screwed me. But instead, when I told him of my disappointment after the round, he totally didn't care at all, telling multiple people "I'm not goint to include cadets on a homicide investigation." I said I interpreted this as "so you purposefully hung the cadets up to dry" and he verified that interpretation - "yes." Even bothering to tell us who might be worth steering clear of, to AVOID hindering his investigation, was affirmatively too much for LordRaven to share. LanceLynxx asked why I was complaining, and LordRaven confidently asserted I was just butthurt about being talked down to in-game, as seen here But this statement is ridiculous because how the hell am I supposed to protect his investigation if he doesn't even give me rudimentary information about what or where it is or who it involves? He tells me literally nothing about it, then goes off on me for trying to take someone to medical. He says I fucked up his investigation with back-talking, when I didn't even know what he was investigating, or where, or why, specifically because he FORBID me from knowing. And I didn't even back-talk him until after he had his suspect, so the idea that I ruined his master plan is nonsense. His response to my grievances were nothing but belittling B.S. He accuses me of trying to be gung-ho and "get in the middle of everything," but his reasoning is flatly ridiculous because, while he SAYS what I should be doing is ''being quiet and absorbing information,'' he showed multiple times that he forbid any information from reaching us. So... his operating philosophy is a complete sham. All of these logs should paint an accurate picture of LordRaven001 as a commando detective who thinks he's a head of security and doesn't care who has fun in the process of his manhunt. It exemplifies the worst qualities of security players. If you're an asshole without generating RP to the person you're an asshole to, that's not having an asshole character - that's just being an asshole. I'm sure the round was plenty fun for everyone he decided was allowed to participate.
  7. Fair enough, I suppose. Though I just thought of a hilarious variation on this. Imagine, if you will, he retains use of the vestigial appendage (basically his "hand" is at the "shoulder") and he uses it to operate one of those T-Rex-headed grabber toys in lieu of a hand. Stupid, I know, but it made me laugh and I felt I needed to share that idea
  8. The real question I have in this is how does your character interface with it. I assumed that prosthesis in this universe tapped into the nervous system to work. I also assume that Dionaea don't have a nervous system, as such.
  9. The gimmicky comment is just personal opinion. The issue I have is, again, that I just don't see a company putting the effort into making a product that is so specialized. Companies need to make money. Specialized products tend to be prohibitively expensive to make, due to small sales volume. The implication here is that a company is willing to invest in creating this product that one would expect has a low total profit margin. I might be nitpicking with this and I could be missing something, but I stand by my statement that I don't think anybody in this universe makes this product. If it were some manner of prototype product made in house by NT Science, I would say it sounds more feasible, but that also implies that it is not going to be a perfect product, therefore might have "hiccups." If it has twitches or a small chance of dropping items or something along that line I would like it more.
  10. In canon, I don't know that there would be a market that would justify a company producing prosthesis for Dionaea. I feel the waste in other raw resources to produce this arm probably outweighs the needed biomatter. In other words this doesn't seem like a viable or cost-effective product that would realistically exist. Non-canonically , it just seems silly and gimmicky.
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