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BurgerBB

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    burgerbb

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  1. I virtually in agreement with most of your points. There are only two things I can really comment on, which your admitted inactivity. I'm not here to tell you how to do your job, but if you're judging someone's behavior then I think it would be better if people were aware of how I actually behave when it's not being reported. Like, no one writes 7 page essays about how I'm a good person. No one writes 7 pages essays on how anyone is a good person here, because no one cares about that. You can argue it's expected to be a good person but there is a HUGE concern about whether or not JUST the toxic behavior is looked at in a person, which is why I bring up your inactivity. It's very easy as an admin to despise people in the community if you only and exclusively hear about their bad behavior, but that is usually countered with the fact that the admin in question would be active and participate in the community. And on community, I mean if I really hated the community I wouldn't have become a dev or contributed 199 PRs to Aurora. Like I don't want to cross the line of saying "I was staff TREAT ME BETTER." but I think it dispels the notion that I am a detriment to being on Aurora. I mean, some people still treat me like staff because despite even being permabanned and no longer contributing. I had an aurora dev come up to me and bother me about a feature I implemented a year ago. I was also recommended to be solicited by other devs on the server as I had staff of Eris ask if I wanted to code for money. It's clear that I had and have a positive impact on Aurora and it depresses me when this gets ignored because of rude comments in OOC. I have memory issues, and I need you to correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think any admins came up to me and told me to knock it off and stop being a dick after the warning. The only time I think an admin commented on that is that they suggested that I should probably phrase things nicer, as me saying "The antags were really bad this round because xyz." provoked someone into getting really upset, which I backed away from. I also can't read notes and I don't recall anyone threatening me with a ban. If you could provide more information about that note, I would be happy to possibly elaborate on it if I remember. I don't have access to notes, which I think should change for everyone as notes have the potential to be abused, and I think in a few cases they were on Aurora and on other servers. Like I think your mindset sort of backs up the fact that this might've been unnecessary. It genuinely feels like that you're tired of all the toxicity not from just me, but from everyone else so you gave me a permaban just as an example to everyone else as opposed to something that might've been more reasonable. I don't think that's fair to me if that's the case, but that is what I feel I'm getting from this. I mean, this is the internet. There are millions of communities. I don't know what is specifically okay in one community or another because it changes constantly with new players and old players. So with that in mind, and the fact that literally no one has warned me or banned me or even complained about my behavior officially (with the exception of the permaban request), and the fact that there are more awful people who play on here who get away with shit, I thought it was okay to criticize people in OOC as long as I wasn't vulgar or incredible rude about it. In about 2% of cases where I've done this, I went over the line. In the instances where people who would get upset over my behavior, it was usually people who are known to cause issues on Aurora or people who I know with absolute certainty are easy to get offended not by just me, or just others. I mean I actively avoid them, I actively avoid engaging with them, but in 99% of cases it's usually just them bitching at me for doing something that they weren't involved in. It's hard to take them seriously and it's easy to completely ignore them and their points. I mean, the ban request itself; none of the examples or the complaints about my behavior actually involved them and was created out of anger because I disagreed with them on discord about how awful of a person I am. I took the ban request seriously, but I didn't take it as seriously as I should've.
  2. It was genuine. I don't understand how I can prove to you or others that it was genuine without over exaggeration or outright lying, which I'm not going to do because I'm not that kind of person. I've stated very clearly that I don't think my behavior at the time is wanted nor needed by the community, however there is a serious amount of hypocrisy which makes me believe that the ban itself is not justified. What I said with the psychology shit was out of anger, and it was absolutely justified anger. I've reported his posts. I've messaged you. I've messaged arrow. I've messaged Yonnimer. Posts were deleted but nothing was done to prevent people from doing it. For christ sakes, Shev's post was deleted for playing armchair psychologist and yet he made the same post again not even 6 hours later. It was very clear that the ban appeal wasn't being taken seriously so I just had enough. I was very justifiably pissed off considering 4 other people posted in the thread, broke rules. Nothing was done to prevent this sort of thing, with exception to locking the thread which really did nothing as 11 hours later the thread was closed. And I explained this. Several times. It is not redirection. If someone starts talking shit I'm going to point that shit out. I have every right to argue it. If there has been a precedent set on how behavior is dealt with, I'm going to bring it up. Lawyers in a courtroom often argue that their client should not receive a life sentence for their crimes by pointing out a president in another case where another person did the exact same thing, if not worse. You can read about that more here: https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_precedent I'm well aware that this isn't a courtroom or held up by law, but jesus christmas I genuinely think that the punishment itself and how the ban appeal itself was handled unfairly and I think other cases in how behavior is dealt with needs to be looked at. Escalation from literally nothing to a permaban is not fair unless I am acting malicious, which I am not. I do not intentionally try to give a rise out of others because I'm not petty and I just do not give a shit about that sort of thing. It is also incredibly unrealistic to assume that me being subjected to 3 people who have harassed me in the past over trivial shit, them telling outright lies, misleading claims, trying to analyze me while claiming I shouldn't be here. Garnacus behaved the same way when I made a player complaint against him; he got reasonably upset and I did not hold that against him because it was reasonable. I'm not saying that he should be permabanned like me, I'm saying that this isn't something special to me and should not be used to determine how a person behaves. If you permabanned any random person on the server who was a known troublemaker, told them to justify their existence on the server, and then had 4 irrelevant people to come in the thread to make up shit, over-exaggerate, and other malicious garbage, I'm pretty sure that random person would be pretty pissed off. They would be at their worst, not their average. Not their median. And here is this stuff again with the "You should set an example." I shouldn't have to set any example when someone stirs shit up and I reasonably tell them to fuck off. It's absolutely fucking hypocrisy at this point to say this because there are plenty of times where someone has went over and above the line when it comes to insults, but an admin says "Well it would be unreasonable to punish them since you kinda did provoke them." I recall an instance where someone told me to kill myself, I reported it to a mod after it was ignored by staff in the chat, and I was told that "Well you've provoked them so I'm just going to give them a verbal warning like I'm giving you right now." Do you want to know what's creating a toxic atmosphere? Treating the targets of toxicity the same as those who are trying to start shit, just because the target told them to fuck off.
  3. BYOND Key: BurgerBB Staff BYOND Key: TrishanaStalker, Drago Reason for complaint: Unfair Treatment/Ban Evidence/logs/etc: The permaban I received was done by a disgustingly inactive admin who is known to get drunk on the job and fuck around in OOC, prayers, and admin tools. Trish is known to show hostility towards me in ooc, discord, and the forums with remarks such as "xd organ damage" in serious environments in the suggestion forums or general belittlements elsewhere. Given their inactivity, especially when the ban was granted, and obvious opinion of me, I do not think that they were fit to give a ban in the first place or have any sort of judgement related to it. In the thread itself, I admitted that I fucked up. I admitted that I have behavioral issues. I admitted that it is ia problem. I shown steps to avoid further incidents but because the peanut gallery could not resist being armchair psychologists, so 90% of the thread was just then making comments and me telling them how wrong they were. In the thread, I believe at least 5 people who were not irrelevant to the ban complaint commented in the thread. When reported, they were not dealt with in a timely matter. Someone event kept replying after their posts were being deleted so that told me that no punishment or really anything to deter them from posting again was dealt with. It was a thread filled with absolute negativity towards me, and I do not think it was a fair environment for judge me in. It was a drama-filled infestation that acted more like a kangaroo court than an actual, serious ban request. I think I have every right to be pissed off and defend myself from these remarks. When the amount of people who deal with it I'm obviously going to display some aggression and tell them to fuck off. If I acted out of line, I would get the same treatment by staff and players so I think that's absoultely fair game. The worst part about it is only one of my points were addressed. I've received one question from drago, one reply from drago, and none from Trishina. Since they're not being addressed, and I think the ban itself was done unfairly, I'm just going to make a staff complaint. It was, by definition, a kangaroo court because 0 evidence or serious discussion was presented or shown other than my comment about coalf. Here are my main gripes about the thread and the ban, that were from the previous thread. In short, I think permabanning someone for behavioral issues without any serious discussion at all happening before the permaban, during the permaban, and probably after the permaban is an absolutely terrible way to go because at this point I don't know what you expect from me past admitting my guilt and promising not to do it again. I'm not saying I'm doing both of those things because it's expected, but it's the right thing to do, but I also strongly believe that it is also the right thing to do to point out the amount of bullshit I put up with in that thread and honestly the ban itself. So my entire point of this staff complaint is: Yes. I fucked up by being rude to people of the community on discord, on the forums, and OOC. Yes. I fucked up in the thread responding to people and I took note of to never actually reply to them unless it's okayed by a mod. I do not think it's worth a permaban because my attitude isn't worth a permaban. I don't do things like tell people to kill themselves or go out of my way to attack people. I do not think it's worth permaban as there are worse people with worse behavioral problems that exist. I do not think that the judgement done by the peanut gallery and by staff handling the unappeal in the thread was fair or impartial. I do not think that the ban request itself was fair or impartial. There wasn't enough communication between me nor staff regarding this. I think the mindset people have is that since I'm talking more about how unfair the ban request is, it means that I'm not remorseful or something or that I don't actually feel sorry. This is false. The thing with arguments is that disagreements over things tend to take up significantly more space and that usually gets the most attention. However, I think there are only so many times where I can say that I fucked up without devaluing it.
  4. I don't blame others. That is literally in one of the points I made that you are currently conveniently ignoring. When we're talking about punishments I'm going to point out that when people have misbehaved in the past, and nothing was done to curb their behavior other than a simple verbal warning or none at all, then I'm going to point that out. The reason why I'm talking about the behavior of others is because this is a permanent ban. When people are doing something extremely similar to what I'm doing, like you're currently doing, and they don't get a permaban or a ban, then I'm going to point that out to justify that I should not get a permanent ban. You're ignoring everything I said, even if it's in point forum except for the part about you. Your history is super important considering how out of nowhere your ban request was and how malicious you act out on a whim if it suits you. You were all flowers and roses up until the argument. Even when I allegedly acted malicious towards garn about lying about something, you privately messaged me on discord saying that I should probably lay of on garn because you don't want to see me banned. Not because I lied. So honestly just stop. Go away. I've told you I don't want to hear what you have to say. It's clear at this point that you're only saying these things for an audience that isn't the admins.
  5. But yeah if Coalf is the line for improvement then I'm pretty sure I meet that criteria as well. Everyone and their dog admitted that I became dev that my behavior improved. I still think it's improved, and a single argument on discord ruined that however because I was dealing with some stressful shit. So I'm still going to complain, comparatively, I am definitely not the person I once was and that the ban request was created in a knee jerk reaction spite and the ban itself wasn't thought out. If Coalf and others can insult users directly on discord and I get a permaban for calling bad antags shit atangs, regardless of who they are, then there is something wrong there. I think it all makes sense when you realise how inactive Trish is because I think they're basing all their evidence and shit on what I used to be instead of what I currently am.
  6. I still think that coalf was too feisty for his own good. I mean he's just a loredev now so it doesn't matter much but if you actually gave him warnings for it then I guess that's fine?
  7. Additional points. These are quite sensitive because I don't want to imply that I should be treated differently because I was staff here, but I think it's important to get rid of this stupid meme that was even mentioned in the ban request that I hate the community. I have contributed over 100 PRs to the server. On some days I have spent 100% of my free time developing for Aurora. I have made several well-liked overhauls of code and maps, including major overhauls to service and cargo. I have made mining not-shit. I have applied for dev and got accepted. I would've not done any of this if I hated the community. I don't hate the community, I only hate a handful of players when I am reminded that they exist.
  8. Okay so I'm really pissed off right now for several reasons. If I post a wall of text people tend to focus on the things I got wrong, rather than the things I got right. A large majority of the content that I post is largely unaddressed; only the easiest things to prove wrong or to argue. So let me do you a favor and cut the fluff and give you point forum statements and questions that I want to be acknowledged. I want the following points to be addressed. I regret my behavior on discord and I know what I will be doing to prevent future incidents from happening. I regret my behavior on the forums and I will probably be avoiding them all together since I have other servers to play on with mechanism that interest me. I regret my behavior on OOC and I will probably be avoiding it all together since I could just play another server if the round is boring as shit. I'm sorry for any and all issues that I cause as a result of my criticisms, constructive and unconstructive, on the server. I've never been banned on discord. I've never been banned in game. I've been banned for a total of 10 days on the forums. 3 days for racking up 3 minor warnings on the forums about behavior. 7 days for Garnacus' deal. I've never been mechanically warned for my comments in OOC about end-of-round stuff. I've been verbally warned once for my comments in OOC about end-of-round stuff, and this a result of an ahelp I made about someone in the middle of the round talking shit for no real reason. I've been told that I'm right about the OOC comments about end-of-round stuff but I should phrase them nicer. I've never been told past this ban by staff that my comments were abusive, just annoying. I've received 7 total warnings in my 2 years of being here. 6 were minor, 1 was major. Out of those minor warnings, 1 was about mistreating other players. I have never went out of my way to specifically target and berate the people messing up as antag. I want the following questions to be answered. Why was a permaban necessary? If a permaban was necessary, why was it chosen over something like a lesser time-based ban? Why wasn't I asked any questions by the people handling the complaint, during the complaint? Why was the ban handled by a seriously inactive administrator? With exception to this permaban, how come none of my OOC criticisms didn't receive any sort of punishment? Was Shev's history every considered at any point at all when they made the complaint? Which information in Shev's complaint was a factor in my ban? There will probably be more questions and statements to be made. At this point, with how long this has been going, and no progress being made, it might've been better not to make an appeal at all so I'm just to ask everything in point form for now on.
  9. It's a permanent ban. I don't give a shit if it has the ability to be appealed. A permanent ban is different from a regular ban because I have to prove that I'm worthy of being here when I shouldn't have to in the first place because what I did is absolutely insignificant. A majority of things I pointed out aren't being addressed still. You keep going back to my warnings about my bad behavior yet there is only 1 in game instance of doing it, and 2 discord warnings that happened over several months ago. The forum warnings are also quite old, with the exception of the AMR joke which is recent but absolutely fucking nothing. The in game instance, I too involving menown was absolutely nothing and I genuinely believe that you at the time were looking to give me shit for anything because this was at a time when you genuinely despised me to the point where you actually apologized for your behavior before you became a dev. This is what happened: Menown had a long 4 page medical record linked to a google doc. I told him his medical records were shit and should be cut down or reorganized because I was confused over their prescriptions. He didn't take the advice so I moved on. He then proceeded to shittalk me in OOC so I'm like "Okay, these are what your medical records look like." and they then proceeded to have a mental breakdown to which you did some hard investigation to try and dink me for the leaking OOC records on but instead you told me I should just be nicer when giving criticism in LOOC. I didn't appeal it because I knew that something like that would never happened again, and it never happened again. I didn't appeal it because it would make me look like an ass amd bring more attention to it, so I didn't appeal it. I didn't have any tangible proof that you despised me, just that you were being an annoying dick, so I didn't appeal it. I've already learned from the mistake before the punishment was applied, which I admitted extensively yet you immediately jumped the gun and decided that a permaban and me having to type up a fucking essay's worth of text is the best course of action. It wastes my time. It wastes your time. It's degrading as fuck because your "well we're giving you time to reflect on what you've done" is what you do to children who misbehave and not adults who make mistakes they admit making. Was it an actual discord warning or was it a verbal warning? A staff complaint, I thought, was the worst course of action to take because the process will take exceptionally longer. If I made a staff complaint, the focus would be on the fact that I'm not actively apologizing or admitting wrongdoing on my part when I should be. Also the fact that Trishana skidaddled somewhere else, again, which means that this process is going to take exceptionally longer until they get back. Maybe inactive administrators shouldn't be used for permaban requests that you except an appeal from. This wasn't the incident I am referring to, this is just one of the many very minor incidents were you were a dick. I would've fucking straight up ignored me if you called me something other than a nini. I recall you straight up baiting me when abo told you to chill. This just so happens to be another incident where that happened. Enough with your fucking stupid psychoanalysis you absolutely insufferable human being. Stop pretending to be a mod, seriously. I'm going to keep saying this every time you assume something about me, regardless of its truth (hint, it's usually always false).
  10. I think something incredibly interesting has happened during my time here. Like before I was a bitter old man, I would hold people's behavior to a very high standard. I mean I still do today but as time went on and I realise that some people won't change themselves or that what they were necessarily doing wasn't technically against the rules. I then did the same thing they were doing because I was usually bitter or upset about that very fact. Since I complained in the past about it, I get treated more harshly because of it. Like there is a very fine line between a problem and not a problem when it comes to someone being a problem. If someone shitposts about how bad someone is in OOC no one gives a shit. No one is talked to. Nothing is dealt with. If anything was dealt with, it was just "they were talked to" and nothing more which probably explains the fact that I've received 0 official warnings and 1 "not-really-a-warning-but-you-should-still-stop" verbal warning. What I do is pretty fucking minor compared to some of the shit flinged my way and the shit I've seen flinged in other people's direction. I don't mean to go off topic, but there are a ton of users here who have gotten away with being bitter cunts because it's just a personality/behavioral quirk of theirs. Any hostility that they spew is hidden behind a veil of "banter", "shitposting", or "just how they act." and no one wants to act on it because they don't want to risk looking like a whiny bitch or some trivial shit. I recall this exact same thing happened with Coalf who was an admin at the time. They just flipped out at me on discord with Abo was there, and abo told them to chill out. Coalf did not chill. Abo then went onto explain that he's just "feisty" and that somehow justified an admin breaking rules. I recall the admin who actually perma'd me, Trishina, shitposting in the suggestion forums (there was strict rule enforcement there, by the way) with "Organ damage xd" on a PR I made, and someone explaining to me that it wasn't really that big of a deal because that's just how they are. In contrast to when I act out of line, I get scolded because I should know better, and get shit like "Be the change you want to be." or "You know what you're doing is wrong because you complain about it." Like, honestly, eyebrows should be raised when warnings or notes contain language such as that because it's specifically using the fact that I point out other people's bad behavior as well. Like for fuck sakes, the player/staff complaints I made were used in the ban request. Maybe I'm just fucking crazy but I find that really messed up. Like obviously my behavior will be better but I shouldn't have to say that my behavior will improve. I shouldn't have to argue that it will improve because the ban in the first place was just not thought out. I have a hard time seeing the validity of a permaban when in my experience people have said and done way worse things about me as mentioned above. I don't specifically target people because I don't go on a personal level. I complain when the shuttle departs, not when the round ends and I can see the names because the names are mostly irrelevant. I have been specifically targeted with actual harassment, and when that happens, and when I bring it up to staff, they go "We're not here to protect you from criticism." or "You dug yourself this hole." regardless if it's actually constructive, criticism that has been asked asked for, or useful. Like there are a lot of things I want to be addressed, like why you and trish felt the need to make it a permaban and why it was addressed so quickly. It's been almost a month since I made some staff/player complaints and they haven't been resolved yet. My ban request was resolved in under a day.
  11. I mean I can't prove that I won't do something again unless I don't do something again. I said that I'm done giving people unwanted criticism because I think at this point I don't care to see anyone improve, and also the fact that it's clear that it gets people upset so I won't do it, but I don't think I really have to prove anything because the ban in the first place wasn't appropriate and I think that should be addressed instead. Like again, I'm pretty fucking sure that people are afraid to post examples because all the examples they have are incredibly minor. The issue with me is that I have a 1000 different minor issues that lead up to one big issue. On their own, those minor issues are absolutely fucking nothing compared to some of the other players and staff who have 200 moderate issues or 4 major issues. Let's start from the basis. What is the issue with my conduct? Is it that I'm just rude? Is it just that I give too much criticism? I feel it's both but if you say it's both then I'm going to be holding others to the same standards that you're currently applying to me.
  12. I think I'm done reading your posts. I legitimately don't give a fuck about what you think I think, as I already know what I think. Again, as I said for the millionth time, I do not give a shit about your 1.33 GPA psychoanalysis about me. Seriously fuck off with this shit. It's not constructive. It's not accurate. It isn't useful. It's more toxic than anything I said in this thread. Stop using the fact that you were the one who created the ban request thread as an excuse to pretend to act like staff.
  13. I think you're intentionally misrepresenting the core of what I have to say and I don't appreciate that especially when you seemingly ignored most of what I had to say just to post an epic zinger that misquotes me. What I said is honest. I have every right to tell someone to fuck off if they attempt to act like an armchair psychologist. In turn, I'm going to say that someone has a right to tell me to fuck off if the advice I am giving is unconstructive. Telling someone to fuck off is incredibly mild to some of the shit that people, including in this thread, have gotten away with. The current attitude of administration is that regardless of what anyone says, as long as they don't use mean words, they can say it. Someone can tell me that people celebrated my departure from Aurora and face 0 repercussions for their actions while I myself get warnings for making a joke about AMR users having small penises. One of those had a harsher message, and spoiler alert, it didn't involve a joke. Unless staff admit that someone who constantly writes paragraphs upon paragraphs of psychoanalysis that no one wanted nor asked for is not a problem, and by extension, they won't deal with it, then I'm just going to tell people to fuck off and block them. I don't play aurora to be belittled by people who think they are superior to me. Neither do others. If I get permabanned for doing that while people like you still exist on the server because you limit you shittalking to one person at a time at any given moment, then that is hypocrisy. So I'm telling you as a human being to another human being that you need to stop. I legitimately don't care what you have to say about me. I don't want to hear it. I don't think anyone else wants to hear it. No one gives a fuck. You don't know me, I know me. I don't know others, the others know themselves. This is the philosophy I learned over the past few weeks and I think that this is an excellent philosophy that will both stop me giving unsolicited criticisms about people's antag play, and other peoples unsolicited criticisms that they learned about in a 2 minute ted talk animation video about me. This isn't limited to just criticism against me. Take a look into the other staff/player/ban request threads. 75% of content starts with "Well I was somewhat involved..." and then writes 8 paragraphs of psychoanalysis on the situation; triple than what the people ACTUALLY involved have to say. So part of the reason why I roll my eyes at the fact that this is a permaban is that significantly worse things have been said by worse people. Me telling someone that they're antag play is bad 1000 times is still less significant than someone telling me to kill myself. Me telling someone that they should stop chair rping 1000 times is still less significant than being called autistic or retarded. Me telling someone that they should simply "Fuck off." 1000 times is still less significant than someone informing me in an improper context that my departure was celebrated by many users. Do not lecture me about toxicity creating toxicity when you yourself, in your ban request, went over the line several times. If your post was just a rant on discord then you probably would've been banned for a day.
  14. The most important thing from the above post in this image is that the ban request was admitted made in a emotional state, as this is the only new information given to the table. Yes, I'm disregarding the majority of your post because I'm tired of hearing the same psychoanalysis about me over and over again. It's degrading. It's annoying. It's childish. It's usually filled with misinformation or falsehoods, but when it isn't, It states some information that's already known but expands it into several paragraphs and adds fluff that no one cares about. People before you, before their posts were deleted, did the same thing and it is just as annoying as it is now as it is then. Like I don't know how to actually express this with being a dick, but I'm pretty fucking sick of kids treating me like a child or some object to be analyzed or whatever and giving me a 12 step plan that no one asked for. I thought I've made it very clear in the past that I'm not interested in listening to people who do this sort of thing. I mean for christ sakes, the ban request was made in the first place because I said "No, I disagree." when 3 people dogpiled me about how I'm a terrible person. And the irony isn't lost on me. I'm giving advice on how people need to improve as an antag and people are getting annoyed. People are giving me advice on how to improve as a person and I'm getting annoyed. However, just ask yourself which one of those is the most detrimental to one's sanity. So here is a good deal: I will tell people to fuck straight off if they attempt to psychoanalyze me or give their ten cents that no one asked for or needed as to why I'm hated by people. I expect people to do the exact same if I give antag advice that they do not ask for.
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