Mapper Application - Gibson1027/Deanthelis

[Deanthelis]

Ckey/BYOND Usernambe:Deanthelis / Gibson1027

Position Being Applied For (coder, mapper, spriter): Mapper

Past Experiences/Knowledge: Gibson and I worked together over the span of a month and a half this summer re-vamping and overhauling the Paradise Station map. Our changes were rejected, however, for reasons I will not go into great detail here about, as I do not wish to badmouth any other server or their staff; however, in short, the changes were liked by most of the staff, but ultimately rejected or ignored by those with the authority there to implement them.

Examples of Past Work:

I'll simply show this, and provide some commentary on what I've shown, rather than try to list it all out.

 

Here you can see the Robotics lab that Gibson constructed. We added another Cyborg recharger, primarily so borg players could go AFK without hampering others.

Here is the revamped bar area. It's one of the expansions on the civilian/relaxation sectors we made; the cafeteria/mess hall is a place to eat, free from other distractions; the bar is a place to relax, drink, or dance - we combined the bar and the dance floor, with intent to put a boxing ring where the dance floor was (we never got that far, sadly). We also added a bathroom, something that Aurora has in every department, but Paradise has... Two of.

Paradise has (not-yet-implemented) Ambassador jobs, which require Embassies on the station. However, I felt that they were in a bizarre place, so I moved them, and Gibson constructed a new, civilian/general-use dormitory, with extra lockers for privacy purposes, and a fancy lounge, with a camera for civilians to take pictures of themselves on the station as souvenirs.

Here are those embassies I mentioned. I placed them, the Internal Affairs office, the NanoTrasen Representative's office (A Paradise-specific custom job, as far as I can tell) and the Clown and Mime office (who are ambassadors of FUN) in what I deemed the Law Office. Because of how much I moved, or outright made on my own, I had to entirely redo the atmospherics, disposals and power setup in here. In fact, I did the atmos, disposal and power placement in all of the rooms we built, as well as the variable editing on doors and the like. Gibson, however, has a sense for aesthetics that I simply don't, and a certain level of brilliance when it comes to design in general.

While the Law Office was my pet project, Engineering was Gibson's. We noticed that the Gravitational Singularity Generator in Secure Storage was actually a dud, and that the supplies within were not enough to replace a lost singularity engine, so he accounted for that. He also realized that the Magboots and Engineering Hardsuits were, despite being extremely valuable equipment, simply out in the open without a separate room of their own, so he built the tiny secure room there, as well as an o2 canister for the engineers to refill their tanks with each time they spacewalked. He also restructured the Singularity Containment Area, making it (mildly) less dangerous to walk around on, and (mildly) harder to sabotage. He also made those two "tabs" on the left and right sides - those are there for one purpose: adding in extra collectors. A savvy Engineering team who prefers the Singularity over the Supermatter will take the collector arrays from the Supermatter and install them outside, and remove the Supermatter's Emitters for safety purposes.

 

Preferred Mode of Communication (Skype, Steam, etc.): I can be contacted on Steam; my Steam name is Deanthelis. I can also be found idling in #codershuttle on the SorceryNet IRC network, where dozens of other SS13 coders, mappers, and enthusiasts tend to gather and discuss things related to the Baystation codebase. Gibson and I can both be found on a particular Teamspeak server at various times of the day; the particular server address will not be provided here, but may be asked for via PM here or through one of the other contact methods.

Gibson can be contacted on Steam; his name is Gibson1027.

We both accept PM's via the Byond pager.

Additional Comments:

This is a Joint Application for myself and my good friend, Gibson1027. All information supplied here pertains to both of us, as we have worked together, as a team, for all of our experiences in BYOND development, specifically mapping. We each have our own strengths and weaknesses, but neither of us are as efficient as both of us together. I can say with surety that, and Gibson may confirm this in this thread, that all work in the Examples section was produced by the both of us. We also have a friend who is a rather wonderful character and a talented spriter, though he has decided that he will make an application on his own. I, personally, was inspired by the direction Aurora is taking in the near future, and after a short discussion with Gibson and spending a few rounds observing the high-caliber roleplay on Aurora, decided our skills would be best appreciated here.

[Frances]

Two things.

Firstly, we have four active mappers already working on our map project, and are about to wrap up the basic layout. The next step is going to be laying down pipes, atmos, etc. and basically taking care of all the grinding stuff. There's a few mappers/devs I already trust for that, and given how delegating portions of our infrastructures to other mappers in the past has proven to create a major headache in the long run, I'd rather keep that end closed, and limited to as few people as possible (plus I do not think you came here to lay pipes).

Secondly, I will be frank and say that there are a lot of issues with the builds you present here, on both an aesthetic and functional level. (Moreso the former.)

Rather than going by paragraphs, I'll make a list of the problems I personally had with these screenshots, and end in a short conclusion.

-There's a lot of firedoors placed over airlocks.

-Robotics lost all the detail in its flooring, being replaced by a flat dark grey turf.

-The robotics lab has a weird atrium thing which feels very unnecessary (it's way too packed anyway), and there's no good reason to move the public desk from its original location.

-The public backroom to the bar, while interesting, is too small - rows of chairs touching each other make the area impossible to navigate when people are sitting at the tables. Also, the row of identical snack vendors is a bit off-putting.

-There's a lot of nonstandard windows (basically, a block standard window placed over a grille), though this might be specific to your station.

-The lounge of the bar is weird - four rainbow armchairs in a row, with some additional armchairs around a big couch that don't really seem to know what they're doing.

-The bar counter follows a strange, serpentine shape.

-The windoor leading to the bar's lounge will not actually touch these tables once spawned - it'd need to be framed by two window panes (running parallel).

-I like the concept of a mess hall, but there's no incentive for people to use it as they barely eat. Combined with the bar, you have a very large area (I count 50+ seats in these two rooms) which would mostly remain empty, even with Paradise's higher pop count.

-There's a large area in the upper left of the mess hall with nothing in it.

-The bathroom should not have a double door leading to a single urinal and toilet stall.

-Speaking of which, the bathroom is too big for what it contains (a 3x4 room for a single urinal and toilet) and is missing a sink.

-The cryo pipes simply end into nothingness.

-The civilian lounge is fine.

-The very long row of personal lockers in the room outside of it, however, is not. These should be broken up somehow (in two rows?), or better organized, but not simply laid there.

-I simply don't understand this.

-Most of the embassies look fine, and follow a defined theme (which I like), though some are a bit empty. However, the diagonal walls are a big no-no in my book. They're not used anywhere else, and make for awkward-looking rooms in-game.

-Engineering is okay, though the new secure storage is really disorganized (basically a big box), and will be hard to take things out of. (Also missing a few canisters, did they move?)

To conclude, I think there's two really big elements to mapping. The first, aesthetics, is something that I think you really don't quite have down - as you admitted yourself. As far as function, I appreciate that thought has actually been put in giving your redesigns a purpose, though I don't feel like this purpose was carried out properly through these new maps. (e.g. if the mess hall is to be a place for eating in peace and nothing else, keep in mind that people will spend significantly less time in it, and thus it needs to be severely smaller than it currently is.)

[Deanthelis]

Two things.

Firstly, we have four active mappers already working on our map project, and are about to wrap up the basic layout. The next step is going to be laying down pipes, atmos, etc. and basically taking care of all the grinding stuff. There's a few mappers/devs I already trust for that, and given how delegating portions of our infrastructures to other mappers in the past has proven to create a major headache in the long run, I'd rather keep that end closed, and limited to as few people as possible (plus I do not think you came here to lay pipes).

Secondly, I will be frank and say that there are a lot of issues with the builds you present here, on both an aesthetic and functional level. (Moreso the former.)

Rather than going by paragraphs, I'll make a list of the problems I personally had with these screenshots, and end in a short conclusion.

-There's a lot of firedoors placed over airlocks.

-Robotics lost all the detail in its flooring, being replaced by a flat dark grey turf.

-The robotics lab has a weird atrium thing which feels very unnecessary (it's way too packed anyway), and there's no good reason to move the public desk from its original location.

-The public backroom to the bar, while interesting, is too small - rows of chairs touching each other make the area impossible to navigate when people are sitting at the tables. Also, the row of identical snack vendors is a bit off-putting.

-There's a lot of nonstandard windows (basically, a block standard window placed over a grille), though this might be specific to your station.

-The lounge of the bar is weird - four rainbow armchairs in a row, with some additional armchairs around a big couch that don't really seem to know what they're doing.

-The bar counter follows a strange, serpentine shape.

-The windoor leading to the bar's lounge will not actually touch these tables once spawned - it'd need to be framed by two window panes (running parallel).

-I like the concept of a mess hall, but there's no incentive for people to use it as they barely eat. Combined with the bar, you have a very large area (I count 50+ seats in these two rooms) which would mostly remain empty, even with Paradise's higher pop count.

-There's a large area in the upper left of the mess hall with nothing in it.

-The bathroom should not have a double door leading to a single urinal and toilet stall.

-Speaking of which, the bathroom is too big for what it contains (a 3x4 room for a single urinal and toilet) and is missing a sink.

-The cryo pipes simply end into nothingness.

-The civilian lounge is fine.

-The very long row of personal lockers in the room outside of it, however, is not. These should be broken up somehow (in two rows?), or better organized, but not simply laid there.

-I simply don't understand this.

-Most of the embassies look fine, and follow a defined theme (which I like), though some are a bit empty. However, the diagonal walls are a big no-no in my book. They're not used anywhere else, and make for awkward-looking rooms in-game.

-Engineering is okay, though the new secure storage is really disorganized (basically a big box), and will be hard to take things out of. (Also missing a few canisters, did they move?)

To conclude, I think there's two really big elements to mapping. The first, aesthetics, is something that I think you really don't quite have down - as you admitted yourself. As far as function, I appreciate that thought has actually been put in giving your redesigns a purpose, though I don't feel like this purpose was carried out properly through these new maps. (e.g. if the mess hall is to be a place for eating in peace and nothing else, keep in mind that people will spend significantly less time in it, and thus it needs to be severely smaller than it currently is.)

 

I was unaware you had four mappers already, though quite frankly, I wouldn't mind just putting down the pipes and wiring when it's time to do so. I, and I do not speak for Gibson in this respect, simply want to contribute in whatever way I can; I'm unsure if he'd settle for that much. However, I understand and respect your decision to keep the grind-y portions of the process to those you're already quite familiar with. I wish my skills were up to snuff, aesthetically and mechanically, and I think it's a shame I didn't stumble upon Aurora at an earlier point in time to refine my abilities and prove my worth to get to work on what is, to me, an amazing take on what SS13 is.

I'll try to address these things line by line, since you were so kind as to itemize your criticism in a constructive manner. Please believe me when I say this is the first actual feedback we've had on this. Please don't misinterpret any of this for excuses - I'm merely trying to show our reasoning for our decisions, flawed as it might have been. Your criticism is helpful, even if we don't contribute whatsoever to Aurora.

-Firedoors on airlocks was something the station we were on commonly had. Their map is intended to operate with a peak population of 100-110 players; as a result, grief via fire is disgustingly common, so those are in more places than Aurora has them, from what I can tell. Our objective was to improve upon what was there without making too many sweeping changes.

-Trust me when I say that Robotics had a different flat, lighter gray turf before that blended in with all of the other flat, light gray turfs that were there. While it isn't the best, I will admit, it's a contrast, which is better than what was there before. Please keep in mind we used only the assets that were already available, as we did not want to modify the code if we could help it. Had we permission to sprite our own floor designs, we would've.

-I happen to agree on the robotics waiting room.

-The nonstandard windows were indeed a mystery of that station. They were mixed frequently all over the place; we actually managed to standardize things somewhat in our redo of things.

-There's really nothing we can say in defense of the bar, cafeteria and bathrooms.

-Cryo sleepers on paradise are magic, and don't need atmos connected to them. We're not sure why.

-Secure storage was already a box, and didn't have any canisters besides one toxins tank on Paradise. Keep in mind, this is a server that also doesn't have dormitories or actual personal storage on a departmental basis either, and originally had one bathroom, with two toilets, for 100 crewmembers.

-I am glad the only thing wrong with the embassies is the diagonal walls.

I feel that if we had more creative license to explore unusual options, we would have done better, but our inexperience shows. I don't think we would have done much better even without the restrictions we had; most of the significant issues with our work is our own fault, we accept that, and hope to work through it.

Once again, we're grateful to have someone willing to sit down and actually tell us where we can improve, instead of an unhelpful, plain "I don't like this, so no" like we received previously. I feel that many of the decisions we made were naive, like making the cafeteria huge despite the low traffic it'd have. If there is anything Gibson or I can do to contribute, now or in the future, please feel free to ask, even if it's menial pipe-laying or some other equally droll task. In addition, if there are any exercises or things you'd recommend for us to do to hone our abilities and, potentially, re-apply at a later time, that would be absolutely wonderful.

In the meantime, I think I'll work on my character background and properly introduce myself on the other section of this forum.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

-Dean

[Frances]

I don't mean to discourage you from mapping at all, and am glad that you actually are willing to take feedback at face value. Mapping isn't an exact science, but aesthetics is a skill that can be developed, and working on a tileset is no different.

First, to quickly clarify a few points you brought back, since I failed at explaining myself properly from wanting to cover so many things.

-Airlocks and firedoors aren't a bad thing to mix up - in fact, most glass airlocks on Aurora have firedoors. Simply, you're supposed to place the firedoor under the airlock, not above it, which is what I was highlighting. Placing them over makes them highly visible, which is something we try to avoid.

-It is true that I have no idea what state the map you were working from was in, which is why I tried not to make too many assumptions. However, I think that simply looking at the baystation layout for robotics (which is what this robotics lab seems to be from) could give you a few ideas of how to organize the floor, including various gimmicks to break up the pace in the turfs, such as warning stripes around the shutters or fabricators, a white tile area around the surgical station, and blue computer flooring around the recharging stations. Generally, very few rooms will be entirely of a single color, with this being limited to smaller ones. If you take some time to look around most stations' maps, you'll see various color-coded tiles, floor arrangements, patterns, warning stripes and other elements that serve to break the monotony of a monochrome floor.

-Fair enough for the windows - though one place were a window pane would have probably looked better is by the bar, since two blocks leading into a windoor feel a bit strange.

-Cryo sleepers aren't a technical issue - I was speaking visually. The fact that their blue and green piping ends abruptly with the way you've set them up bothers me, especially with the bottom row. This is a bit of a failure from the engine, since bed sprites need to match the characters' "laying down" sprites, but this is a case where you would set up your sleepers in such a way that they always have a wall above their rows for the pipes to disappear into.

-Secure storage needs a walkable space, ideally indicated by some sort of floor markings (warning stripes or such), so that people can actually reach the back of it easily. Not only does it make it look more aesthetically pleasant (and not just like some game area), but having to drag ten items to get to the one you need is an experience no one should have to go through.

-I think the embassies suffer a little from the lack of custom sprites - while most items in SS13 were built to fit the "space station" theme, there's very few items to create something that would look like, a diona embassy, for example.

Now, a few tips, off the top of my head (sorry, still working with lists u_u):

-Creative license is something you shouldn't be afraid to take, if you think you can put it to good use. Implementing new sprites is easy if you can provide them, and I can see no reason why someone would reject your work as long as it was good and easy to implement. I don't understand why Paradise had a "no new sprites-rule", but I can assure you that if someone comes up with something for Aurora we want, and designs their own sprites, and the sprites look good, we'll be glad to integrate them.

-Work from reference. If you're not sure how to do something, and don't have a set idea, looking at various reference can help you come up with a design that's more than a shapeless blob, or an alley of uninspired furniture. This goes both for looking at other SS13 station layouts, and working from life. Most of the new areas I designed for our map project (which you can see the progress of here have been designed with real areas in mind. (And sometimes, a simple google image search is all it takes.) Sure, a locker room is a room with lockers and benches/stools, but the way these lockers and stools are arranged creates the difference between a room that's used to put lockers in, and an actual locker room.

-Find people who are willing to give you feedback, and stick with them. Not all feedback is good - good criticism should always be backed up by logic. If you can't understand /why/ something is wrong, ask until it becomes clear; otherwise, that critique doesn't bring you anything in the way of improvement.

-Don't take anything personally. Some people are assholes, some are not. Sometimes, feedback may seem harsh, but keep in mind people are providing it because they want to help you, not see you fail. If someone is being an outright douche for no visible reason, though, you don't have to listen to them.

That's really all I can think of. I'm an artist, and these tips also apply in a more general sense, but I don't have any magical tips for mapping (other than trying to make your rooms look like something that would believably exist in real life, and constantly asking yourself whether your creations work well from a gameplay perspective). The most important thing to improve is probably going to be practice - and if these are your first attempts at mapping, you might find yourself improving very quickly as you keep messing with layouts and find an aesthetic you like.

I'm nearly unwilling to suggest it, but if you really want to have a crack at something, we're looking to furnish the exterior of our station with a few abandoned outposts/bases. If you would like to come up with layouts for some of these (both ground-based and in space), feel free to have a go. You can get our current map from our github, which you should be able to work with as a base, since the new station's layout isn't important for that (and we haven't finalized our ground turfs yet, so feel free to use any you can find as a stand-in).

If you wish to do that, though, keep in mind that's likely going to be a harder task than designing regular areas, as you have to create believable destruction (and some sprites to facilitate a good transition between the planet surface and abandoned outposts will have to be created at some point). Also, these areas should be rather small (we can't fit another derelict on our map, for example).

And if you do get me something, I'll be glad to provide feedback, and do my best to help you fix any issues there might be with it.

[Frances]

Archiving this as it's been three months and I should probably clean things up.

Send me a PM if you want to have it unlocked.