Guest Menown Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 BYOND Key:Meowykins Player Byond Key:EvilBrage Reason for complaint:Self Antagging Approximate Date/Time:Numerous times. Brage has an abnormal tendency to do amazing antagonistic things during rounds, mostly during extended. I'm all for generating RP and conflict, but if you're doing the same things constantly, and getting caught for it without any backlash for it, there's an issue. I've been witness to many events of self antagging involving Jaylor( Brage's character. ) I've witnessed him breaking into the bar to retrieve the shotgun so he could use it for defense/open crates. I've witnessed him wrapping baseball bats to abuse code so they can be concealed. I've witnessed him collect an assortment of weapons, such as knives, saws, ect for defense or offense if needed. I've held my tongue on a lot of this stuff, because a while back I was told that him doing this to create conflict was okay. However, I was in an incident with him this morning where he had went straight to cryo once a Head of Personnel cryo'd, and immediately retrieved an energy pistol from the freezer, and attempted to duck away into a portion of cryo out of my line of sight. Now, sure, he could have been trying to turn it into security, but when I had brought him in, it was revealed that he had a flash on his person ( something an Engineer, despite having access, has no need for ) as well as a kitchen knife, meaning that if I wasn't there, he'd probably had kept the pistol for himself. If Brage was a new player, he would have been reprimanded for these things long ago, and there would be no need for this complaint, but I've finally decided that it probably should be put out there, as this kind of behavior, ICly, when there's a blackbox recorder that records /everything/ wouldn't let him keep a job. Even more-so for the ex-pirate, master thief Jaylor is.
Guest Posted February 22, 2015 Posted February 22, 2015 In the security records, it states Jaylor shouldn't be around anything that /looks/ like a weapon. With repeated instances of him getting caught like this, they would not be employed with NanoTrasen. And then this keeps on going and going, anytime I'm observing when Brage is playing as Jaylor. They're constantly doing very pirate-y and scummy things on a civilian station, and it's assumed as an ex-pirate they have come to the conclusion that their behavior was bad at one point.
EvilBrage Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Woah woah woah. Just because I said something IC doesn't make it true - I want to clear a few things up. I didn't run to cryo as soon as Jawdat went in with the purpose of finding his pistol (I don't even know if it was his, I made that up as I went along, figuring it was the most probable) - I regularly check it and pluck out armored vests because the weaponry was apparently wearing pretty thin and hey - armor protects. I just happened to see it, said to myself "hey look, a gun," and did what any self-respecting paranoid ex-pirate would do and tried to pocket it. You caught me, RP ensued, huzzah. I haven't stolen the bar shotgun in a months - and I remember the first time I did, you announced it over OOC despite the fact that I'd had an earlier exchange with FFrances outlining exactly how and why I'd occasionally do just that and permission to do so without being harassed for it. Despite having permission to do this, however, I decided it'd be best to leave that for rounds in which there were code elevations and other potential threats (as I've outlined below.) The normal contraband crates provide more than enough of the "smuggler" persona I'd been looking for. As soon as Scopes confirmed that the baseball bats weren't meant to be wrapped and placed in backpacks, I stopped doing it (and even provided a coding solution to him.) The knife was plastic, created from the new plastic sheets. Prisoners in actual prisons are allowed to have plastic knives. If you're going to get bent out of shape over a plastic knife, then there's really nothing else I can say. If someone has access, they obviously have some occasional need for it, else they wouldn't have access to the items to begin with. A flash is a low-risk, non-lethal weapon (unless you modify it) that, believe it or not, isn't exclusive to security like people seem to believe. Engineering has flashes in tech storage, robotics begins with several synthetic flashes, but also a couple of the durable flashes. Every head of staff has a flash. A flash spawns unprotected in the security checkpoint - why no one secures this is also beyond me. You generally won't see Jaylor with a weapon unless there's been a code elevation and people are yelling and screaming over the radio about a murderer, he was given the weapon by someone (which does happen, much to my amazement), or he finds it lying around and decides to pocket it without telling anyone. Or if he's an antagonist, of course. My point being that his acquisition of weaponry is generally in response to a stressor or a threat of some kind. The "point" of Jaylor isn't "hue hue ex-pirate" but rather to bring his inherent character flaw to the front: paranoia. All of my characters start from a flaw. For someone to be paranoid, I needed for them to have a halfway reasonable expectation that danger might be visited upon them - that being his criminal background. Criminals might be after the bounty on his head, and law-men will definitely see his records and spite him. He's actually designed to be an unlikeable character. 95% of rounds he's caught with weaponry, it's a round in which there was a threat that sparked a need for self-protection - Aurora is a secure research facility, after all, and he was insanely lucky to even get a position there. However, he doesn't quite fit in with everyone else, hence the conflict. Without conflict, you've got no story, and with no story on a RP server we may as well be RPing with ourselves in Notepad. With repeated instances of him getting caught like this, they would not be employed with NanoTrasen. Since most of a traitor round regarding the antagonist is actually retconned anyways (to prevent easy identification of changelings, syndie items, etc.) then Jaylor's personal response to the threat would be as well. In fact, the only canon instance I can recall is this most recent one that sparked this complaint.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 As Sirasairot Uaekis I regularly stuff a flash from tech storage into my vest, for the sake of having a safe way to disarm someone without using my loldangerous claws. I'm not supposed to have access to them, but so far there hasn't been any IC consequences. I feel making an OOC complaint regarding this specific behaviour a bit heavy handed, when it could be reported via an incident report. As for the rest - I regret having gone to cryo with my things, but was very short for time and wanted the slot opened for someone else to get in. I don't know admin policy on getting weapons + armour from cryo, but keeping a lethal weapon for yourself instead of turning it in seems a bit suspect, especially during extended. You wouldn't walk around your secure research facility with a gun. A flash? That's okay. A plastic knife? Kiiiiinda okay, imo, but the gun I don't think should be kept, especially not with all of these other weapons combined. There's a difference, to me, in keeping a small flash or knife on your person incognito to use later at risk of punishment, and wandering around with a little arsenal in your satchel. I mean by that point Jaylor may as well run around in a full firesuit and gas mask.
Thundy Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 As Charlie, I get on station and Gay (he he he, please find a new name or put an e on the end) said "I am faxing through something". Jaylor is waiting in the lobby as I make my way in and he, Beatrix and I get talking. We go to my office. I pick up the page and scan it, asking Jay what it's all about. I give it to Bea, who has started being every heads assistant, and tell her to take notes. I call the head if security down and they all start talking. Unfortunately, Charlie had a bunch of other medical matters to deal with so she left them in her office. My point is, the matter was being talked about ICly with IC ideas coming out from heads on how to deal with it. This all could have easily been deal with there and I am still of the opinion it should be. Makes for a much fun time for everyone and adds character interaction and friendship.
Guest Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Brage, you filched an energy pistol, a flash, and made a plastic knife on code green during an extended round. Code green means, no imminent threat, no weapons given out to anyone. No imminent threat means, don't go hunting for weapons. It doesn't matter if your character stocks up on weapons for no apparent reason. I'd accuse you of blatantly metagaming if I didn't respect you. In fact, you set a nuke op ON FIRE before as a janitor. You went to cryogenic storage with the intention of taking crap from people that went to cryo. There is no other line of reasoning that would suggest you were doing anything else.
EvilBrage Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 Code green means, no imminent threat, no weapons given out to anyone. No imminent threat means, don't go hunting for weapons. It doesn't matter if your character stocks up on weapons for no apparent reason. I'd accuse you of blatantly metagaming if I didn't respect you. In fact, you set a nuke op ON FIRE before as a janitor. I invite you to re-read what I've already stated, as well as the resolved thread in question that you've brought up from nowhere at all, because I don't feel that you have a firm grasp on why I did those things.
Guest Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 You generally won't see Jaylor with a weapon unless there's been a code elevation and people are yelling and screaming over the radio about a murderer, he was given the weapon by someone (which does happen, much to my amazement), or he finds it lying around and decides to pocket it without telling anyone. The first boldened point was not case, and the second point. Just, why. I don't think it matters who your character is. You should not be pocketing/hoarding weapons because "ooh, e-gun." The plastic knife and the flash, honestly, could not have cared for. The fact you had the intention of keeping a potentially lethal ranged weapon was what caught my attention here.
EvilBrage Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The fact you had the intention of keeping a potentially lethal ranged weapon was what caught my attention here. I wasn't even given time to make a choice in that regard - the moment it popped out of the cryo console was when Remi rolled up on me.
Guest Menown Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 The fact you had the intention of keeping a potentially lethal ranged weapon was what caught my attention here. I wasn't even given time to make a choice in that regard - the moment it popped out of the cryo console was when Remi rolled up on me. You were told to lay it on the floor, several times, and you didn't. In a later exchange, you told me that you should have shot me, and Beepsky when he showed up.
EvilBrage Posted February 23, 2015 Posted February 23, 2015 In a later exchange, you told me that you should have shot me, and Beepsky when he showed up. Jokingly. To which you agreed. I'm fine with everything happening ICly, but the fact that you seem to want to bring this into an OOC complaint is absurd to me. So Jaylor had contraband and is known to have contraband - check him more often if that's the case. Don't just make a character complaint and whine about it, hoping the administrators will intervene. Confrontation and conflict is a good thing, even in the oh-so-sacred pacifism of extended rounds, and I don't see why a select few of you would like to get up in arms about what is essentially a victimless activity, especially after rescinding the IC complaint you made and deciding you didn't want to take part in it. Don't I try to make things fun for everyone involved, especially during my antag moments? Is there any reason to believe I'm not trying to stimulate conflict and character growth (and by extension, enjoyment of the game) during other rounds? That conflict and relationship building was literally the entire point of the event - of any event, really - and you didn't want to follow through with it for whatever reason. In the middle of a nice game of baseball, you took the ball, went home, and complained.
LordFowl Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 This is an IC issue, not an OoC issue. I see no problem with Brage's behaviour; and don't really care about Jaylor's behaviour OoCly.
Guest Marlon Phoenix Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I'll have to rescind the majority of my complaint, in that I'm going to rephrase it that it's a problem I would have IC, but I don't see OOC'ly punishability for his actions. Especially as a Duty Officer, we could have sorted this through an investigation if the complaint was pressed.
Guest Menown Posted February 24, 2015 Posted February 24, 2015 I'm closing the complaint. Need a moderator to lock it or whatever.
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