[Denied] Deserve_Nothing's Unban Request

[pickle]

BYOND Key: Deserve_Nothing
Total Ban Length: 7 days
Banning staff member's Key: roostercat12
Reason of Ban: "Started recording characters in the bar after a note three days ago about saying creepy, exually explicit and over-the-top things about characters in the bar, one of them being the same from the first incident. This behavior is very creepy, and not acceptable." 
Reason for Appeal:

I'll start with the obvious disclaimer that it is not my intention to make anyone on the server feel uncomfortable. It's a situation I've been in before on the server and I routinely take certain measures to prevent others from feeling the same way. And that makes the situation all the more puzzling and difficult for me; while I don't think the ban was justified or that my side of things was taken into consideration (I wasn't so much asked about the event's details as I was contacted to have a verdict dictated to me), I also recognize that there might be considerations happening behind the scenes that I'm not aware of - that with the right context, everything'll make sense. This topic is the best method I could think of to reach that understanding or to change the verdict in question.

I'll go out on a limb and assume that the character in question is Bling, since they were the only common denominator in the two times my character has recorded the bar (recordings that, in total, captured 4 different people thus far). To offer some context about the over-the-top things discussed in the ban reason: my character said some things that were incredibly crass and fairly offensive, as he often does, delivered in the standard deadpan that they normally are. A few of the players present at the time, including whomever plays Bling (I have no idea who it is as I've never spoken to them) told me in LOOC to calm down and insinuated that they were uncomfortable with the language my character was using. I immediately did so and have never shown that level of crassness in the game since then.

A day afterwards, I had a short chat with WickedCybs regarding what happened and used the opportunity to clarify exactly what it was that was deemed over-the-line. Not to be a stickler or a smartass but because it's language I've used on the server before in different contexts (though this was quite a while ago, which might've been a factor) and a quick review of the rules shows that none were broken. Essentially, they told me what I was already suspecting: that the language made some players uncomfortable. A suspicion I had already acted on by changing the way my character speaks.

Over the next three days, things continued as normal, from my perspective. My character would come into the bar - sometimes when it's open and bustling with activity, sometimes when it's closed. He'd sometimes frequent the kitchen and speak to the people there, too. I structure my characters with a chronological set of behaviors in mind - if anyone remembers my previous couple of characters, they were examples of that as well. Once certain criteria are met or enough time has passed, they begin adopting certain behaviors. In the case of my current character, one of those behaviors is filming the bar (for reasons pertaining to his backstory).

It's important to note that the ban reason omits an important detail: it happened on the second time my character filmed the bar. During the first, the bartenders and their patrons got engaged with the act, a fight broke out, conflict was had, and narrative was created. At no point was it communicated to me that people (that is to say, players, rather than their characters) were uncomfortable with my character recording the bar. Not only did they participate in the RP it created, they continued speaking with my character after the fact, even about things unrelated to the recording incident. I can't think of a single instance where Bling wasn't the first to address my character upon seeing him. At no point did Bling nor their player imply that they saw my character's behavior as "stalkerish" (which is what I assume the nature of the accusations are). It was even acknowledged by the parties present that my character was filming the bar, rather than its patrons.

I just fail to see how I could interpret that as my behavior making someone feel uncomfortable, especially given how quick the players in question were to voice their concerns when it came to the language my character used in the original incident. Sure, the characters might not've been comfortable - but that's an entirely separate issue, is it not? It goes without saying that were I made aware of my character's actions making any player feel uncomfortable, I'd have no issue conjuring up some contrivance to stop those actions from repeating. Should the verdict hold, it also creates a fairly tenuous circumstance: when I return to the server, assuming I want to continue playing an unlikable character that is prone to destroying their rapport with other characters as much as they are to building it, how do I know when an action that everyone plays along with and generates interesting conflict is actually making someone uncomfortable behind the scenes and setting me up for another ban?

It'd be disingenuous of me not to mention the additional context that roostercat provided during my short conversation with them but I don't have access to the logs and so I'll have to go off memory. As I said in the first paragraph, I just want to get to the bottom of this. They mentioned that I get on during the same rounds that Bling does which...is true? But misses some key context. I prefer playing my character in rounds that have bartenders because visitors aren't exactly given a lot of options in terms of where they can socialize. I also tend to prioritize rounds that just started. And between the two incidents, I've also played in rounds that Bling wasn't in and only had three or four crewmembers within them. Do I think Bling is an interesting character to roleplay with? Sure, as are a bunch of others. I don't see how my preference for rounds with interesting characters in them is an indictment of anything but my taste (though obviously, had I known that the player in question was uncomfortable with my presence, I would have no issue adhering to their wishes).

I hope this post illustrates how confusing this sequence of events was on my end of things. If I'm forgetting to mention something then I sincerely apologize; I was going to make this appeal soon after the ban was issued (following some consultation with my friends) but the forums had to go and die for half a day. It goes without saying that I'm sorry for any discomfort or grief my character's behavior has given to any player or member of staff - I know firsthand how awkward and difficult it can be to bring a subject like this up with someone, so this post is by no means an attempt to call anyone out for not speaking up about their discomfort.

Edited December 7, 2021 by pickle

[pickle]

I should also point out that, as I've alluded to, I'm not entirely sure which subforum this topic should've gone in. Posting here seems to imply I agree with the fact I got a ban while posting in staff complaints would imply that I think roostercat is at fault for passing the judgement that they did. Neither are entirely true or false, I just feel as though I'm missing some key information that would help me align with one or the other.

[Roostercat]

3 hours ago, pickle said:

It's important to note that the ban reason omits an important detail: it happened on the second time my character filmed the bar. During the first, the bartenders and their patrons got engaged with the act, a fight broke out, conflict was had, and narrative was created. At no point was it communicated to me that people (that is to say, players, rather than their characters) were uncomfortable with my character recording the bar. Not only did they participate in the RP it created, they continued speaking with my character after the fact, even about things unrelated to the recording incident. I can't think of a single instance where Bling wasn't the first to address my character upon seeing him. At no point did Bling nor their player imply that they saw my character's behavior as "stalkerish" (which is what I assume the nature of the accusations are). It was even acknowledged by the parties present that my character was filming the bar, rather than its patrons.
 

Just because it was not reported the first time does not make it okay. Additionally, even when people are uncomfortable, it's not like they will simply cease speaking at all due to it. They will still talk and the like to stay in character as they did when this was reported.

 

3 hours ago, pickle said:

I just fail to see how I could interpret that as my behavior making someone feel uncomfortable

This falls to common sense. If people are uncomfortable with extremely crass language, going to the same people and silently recording them with no additional context out of the blue is going to be seen as targeted behavior. This is obvious. 

 

3 hours ago, pickle said:

 Should the verdict hold, it also creates a fairly tenuous circumstance: when I return to the server, assuming I want to continue playing an unlikable character that is prone to destroying their rapport with other characters as much as they are to building it, how do I know when an action that everyone plays along with and generates interesting conflict is actually making someone uncomfortable behind the scenes and setting me up for another ban?

This, again, falls to common sense. The occasional lightly crass comment or whatever is fine. But you went way overboard. Silently recording specific people for no reason is creepy, and should not be done. The type of character you made is bound to cause similar feelings to most people on the server, and I personally would recommend remaking them, or else this will just keep popping up. 

 

3 hours ago, pickle said:

A day afterwards, I had a short chat with WickedCybs regarding what happened and used the opportunity to clarify exactly what it was that was deemed over-the-line. Not to be a stickler or a smartass but because it's language I've used on the server before in different contexts (though this was quite a while ago, which might've been a factor) and a quick review of the rules shows that none were broken. Essentially, they told me what I was already suspecting: that the language made some players uncomfortable. A suspicion I had already acted on by changing the way my character speaks.

 

I am not interested in watching you come up with a new way to show off creepy behavior, just because you were not explicitly told X specific thing was not okay. it will just spiral into more loopholes forever, and creep out more people. The LOOC comments after the last incident should have made you aware that people are uncomfortable with how your character acts, and I am not buying the claim that you were unaware, given you even mentioned it in LOOC yourself. 

The above quote tells me your reactions is more of a "I'm sorry you feel that way' rather than a "I apologize, I will stop." And the fact you still feel the ban was unwarranted cements that. Take the rest of this ban as time to reconsider how your character acts as a whole.

 

Appeal denied.