[Approved] Unban Request - UponASeaOfStars, 2023-01-15

[UponASeaOfStars]

BYOND Key: UponASeaOfStars
Total Ban Length: 24 hours (server) / Permanent (medical)
Banning staff member's Key: wickedcybs
Reason of Ban: 

Spoiler

After many talks with staff about overstepping your bounds in medical, first as a FR and later as a Physician you continually kept finding any reason to try and make medicine or powergame in the department. Even while off duty you#39ve attempted to justify full on running the department and taking equipment as part of your character, and you didn#39t seem to understand or care why that isn#39t a good thing to us. Afterward you proceeded to joke and shitpost about it on th Discord. Other than this day ban you#39re also being abnned from all medical roles until you appeal that and can tell me what the issue was with what you were doing without any veneer of irony

Reason for Appeal:

Hi! So, uh. I'm Stars (she/they, hi, nice to meet you), player of Aveline LaCroix, MD-- the one with the cool glasses. And I've been here for about a week and I'm banned which probably isn't the best start, and I know you're going to be a little skeptical of letting me back in because you have no guarantees that I'm not a shitter and so far my track record isn't great? But I've been told I'm overthinking things a bit and if I appeal it should be fine so this is that! Thank you for taking the time to read this. So here we go...

I've been playing SS13 for a little while, but it's my first week on Aurora; before this, I played on /tg/station's Manuel, the closest thing they have to a "medium" RP server, but I still found it to be pretty light on the RP, if that makes sense? I like playing my spacemans and giving them cool character arcs and seeing them grow over time and stuff, and I'm not really so big on being stunprodded by assistants who want my character's ID... so I came here, because this is the big HRP server on the hub that everyone's talking about, and I read through all the rules and then I read through all the rules again just to be sure and I thought "Oh, hey, perfect! This is my place!". And-- okay, just a quick background, before SS13 I played a lot of dungeons and dragons. And I mean a lot. I was in four games a week at one point but they all kinda fell apart because everyone else just drifted away from it and I was the only one who always showed up on time? But-- I mention that because it's proof that I take roleplay very seriously and it's a really special thing for me. So I promise I'm not one of the stunprod assistants I mentioned.

So I'm here, and I start making my first character. I don't know too much about HRP servers, so I think "okay, let's base her on a character I already know"-- Leonard 'Bones' McCoy, from Star Trek. You know the one, the doctor who's great at their job, very blunt and plain-spoken - hot-headed, passionate, dedicated, someone who respects all life regardless of its origin. And then because I didn't want to just play a Bones expy, I decided she should really have a flaw-- someone who's so dedicated to her job, someone so passionate, probably doesn't have the best work-life balance. And thus Aveline LaCroix was born, the doctor who doesn't know how to switch off. I've only had her for a week, but she's already one of my most favorite characters I've ever played-- the way she carries herself and the way she interacts with people is honestly great roleplay fuel, and her mindset of "I must help everyone, I must be prepared for if something happens, I cannot relax for one minute" makes for an absolutely incredible character arc possibility.

The character arc in question-- at the time, this was what I had in mind-- was that, although she possesses all the medical skills of a top-tier Chief Medical Officer - she's a very capable physician in the GTR, and besides that, she's qualified enough in surgery and pharmaceutics to assist the team wherever they need help (although she lacks the more advanced surgical skills of a Surgeon or the pharmaceutical expertise of a Pharmacist, because nobody's perfect) - she lacks the officer skills. Rather than being someone who sits back, delegates, and leaves the job at the job when she goes home, she's someone who dives head-first into any situation to help; her biggest fear is someone dying under her care (which has happened before, and still impacts her to this day), and she takes all the steps she can to avoid that, from going above and beyond while preparing (along with Pharmacist Karen Stahl, she helped adapt an old chemical formula created by her previous mentor, who was very much the same way) to refusing to sit on the sidelines while people are being hurt (which recently caused IC tension with First Responder Solveig Vilhjalmsdottir when Aveline moved to assist the FR team on the front lines rather than staying put during a firefight). And that quality - her inability to switch off - is what's holding her back from being promoted, which she's struggling with currently.

The ideal endpoint of this arc, of course, is her learning to overcome that flaw, and becoming someone who is able to sit back, coordinate medical and rescue efforts, and not involve herself despite her drive to help out-- someone who's capable of delegation, management, and being more than just "the combined medicine generalist" -- being someone worthy of Mjolnir, so to speak. With the greatest irony in her arc being that the moment she's actually able to be a CMO superdoc who goes around saving everyone single-handed... she won't need to, because she'll have overcome that voice inside her screaming "you need to do more, you need to help, you are not enough". I've always been very interested in seeing characters start out as flawed and slowly grow and become better, and I had a lot of ideas in mind for Aveline on how she might do this. It's worth noting through all this, though, that I never have any intention of replacing other people's jobs-- if there's someone else who exists who can do a thing, they should do the thing, because it's not fair to them for Aveline to be doing everything. When there's a Surgeon, she doesn't do even basic surgery; when there's a Pharmacist, she doesn't step in the pharmacy at all. But when there isn't, Aveline steps up!

But, then we run into problems, because although it's a wonderful character idea, it also clashes with the way things are: in the lore Aveline specialises in combined medicine, so she's capable of basic pharmaceutical synthesis (which is reflected in her records and the certification badge she carries), but in the game it's against the rules for people to act outside of their job duties regardless of if it's something the character would be able to do. So I get bwoinked, because of course I do; and after a few mixed messages (I've been told all of 'you can use the lab, but only as a physician', 'you can, but only the basics', 'you can, but only in an emergency', 'you can, but only if you're a pharmacist or an (interim) CMO' and finally 'you can't, stop trying'), I decide maybe it's not the best idea to represent that. Eventually I handwave it as "okay, although she can, she's not insured for it because corporate regulations, and she'd rather not lose her job". On the surgical front, I run into no issues, because she spends a lot of her time teaching Damian Dylan (Surgical Intern) how to perform the more complex surgeries without actually doing them herself, taking on what she sees as a kind of mentor role (whether Damian sees it that way, I have no idea!).

But then we get issue two: remember how I said Aveline's mindset is "I must be prepared for if something happens", because if something happens and she's not prepared for it, another of her patients will die? That means she's the kind of person to go to extra lengths to prepare-- she'll carry a GPS unit so she can locate the first responders more quickly if she needs to help them, and she uses a custom-made hypospray mixture (combining tricordrazine, butazoline, dermaline, dylovene, inaprovaline and dexalin-plus in very specific ratios) even though it never sees use, Just In Case. She's the medical equivalent of a survival prepper, which honestly never becomes useful. But on one round, I give a few hyposprays to Security filled with stabilizers, because there's armed gunmen running around shooting people -- totally fine, right? Wrong, because hyposprays are actually complex medical equipment. The examine text refers to them as comparable to autoinjectors, so I assumed they had the same complexity as autoinjectors. Since I'm new here, I had no idea that was the case (in hindsight, autoinjectors would've been much more suitable), and I suspect this is what WickedCybs refers to as 'powergaming' in the ban. I haven't done that again since I was told about it, of course.

And finally, Aveline's inability to switch off; during a recent round, she was crushed by a falling lift, which I decided to adjust to her losing her right arm (rather than her entire life since I'm rather attached to her!); the following shift, she's off-duty for obvious reasons, and the shift's medical team- who she's on a first-name basis with- offers to let her stay in medical, since she'll "always have a home there" (which both Aveline and I teared up a little at). Then when a hivebot swarm attacks and the GTR is overwhelmed with critical patients, Aveline does all she can to help out without getting in the way. The medical team has no problem with her being there, but the staff team does: if she's off-duty, she's meant to be off-duty, and "my character would do this" is not a good excuse. In-character, I rationalise this as "corporate will fire her if she's working off-duty because insurance" (which further feeds into her distaste for regulations, holding her back from her dream job of CMO - it all ties together!).

At around the same time, someone else in the Discord is talking about their own off-duty experiences (as an off-duty Security Officer that had to grab a gun and blast away a murderer because nobody else could do it), and I made a joke about that person being bwoinked for "You're not on-duty!" -- which, unfortunately, was interpreted as a 'snarky post about an admin decision'. Although I can promise I didn't mean it in a snarky way at all and I was trying to make a funny meme about someone else's experience, I understand that it might not have been interpreted that way-- I'm not the best at reading social cues or phrasing things in ways that go down well. I talked with the staff member in question and we cleared it up very shortly after - we realised it was a misunderstanding, and I decided not to appeal it because escalating it into a whole staff complaint would seem really absurd for something as minor as a joke landing the wrong way.

Now, by this point I've realised there's a slight flaw with Aveline - that is to say, the way I intend to portray her doesn't mesh well with the rules. So I decide to ask in the discord's serious-chat about how to best approach this and how to portray her in a way that's realistic to the kind of character she is, while also taking into account the wishes of the staff team; you know how I mentioned earlier that I came from /tg/'s Manuel? Well, they're a lot more focused on mechanics than we are here, and it didn't even occur to me to just... have her be Aveline in lore without representing that in mechanics. Several people made some really good suggestions (IC regulations would stop her from working off-duty or acting outside her role even if she's certified for it, and there's ways to portray her as kind of an over-the-top workaholic with no chill without involving mechanics at all - like mentioning how it's her sixth shift in a row, or how she needs Yet Another Coffee, or fretting about her job even when things are peaceful), and I decided to adapt Aveline to fit those suggestions and make her into a character more worthy of Aurora as a server.

... and then I try and log in and play her and I realise I've been banned. This is my first ban on Aurora, and in fact my first ban on any server, and it's something I'm taking very seriously-- although I never intended to break the OOC rules (it was always intended that Aveline toe the IC line, which creates consequences for her that she can learn from, but I never meant to do that OOC) I still ended up upsetting at least one person, and that's one person too many-- and for that, I'm genuinely sorry. I fucked up. There's no ifs or buts about it, and redemption is something I'll have to earn, not just be given. I understand if you decide you'd rather not have me in medical any more, or in your community at all - and if that's the case, I'll respect that and find somewhere else to make my home. And if this appeal is somehow accepted, I'd like to try and actively make amends to improve things and make things right; I don't know what there is that I can do that'll undo what I've done, and I don't think there really is anything, but I can at least try and contribute all I can to make up for my failures. I studied computer science and I know a fair bit about wiki formatting, so maybe I can beautify a few pages to set things right, but that's not up to me.

The most I can do right now, in this appeal, is tell you my intentions for if I am allowed back, and if I am given permission to play Aveline again (because I still love her dearly, even though I acknowledge she'll need a little tweaking) -- first of all, although she's established as certified in the lore for certain things, that in no way will reflect how she acts mechanically. With corporate regulations being very strict regarding access permissions and who does what, I can have her go "corporate won't let me help" (which honestly provides a really good antag hook - what if she gets so frustrated with the regulations that she takes things into her own hands and does something antagonistic as a result?) and play up her desire to be the Bones McCoy of the team without actually having her do that, if that makes any sense. That also applies to her being off-duty, of course; corp-regs dictate that she can't help out off-duty, which gives her something to grumble about without actually impacting the round in any way. I'll just have to play her as someone who goes "okay, ugh, fine" and obeys those regulations to the letter, which honestly, that's not too huge of a change and I'm absolutely fine with making her a little more by-the-book. I can also explore her skills through teaching others and sharing her knowledge, which honestly ties in really well to her career path and her drive to eventually become Chief Medical Officer (a role that would involve a lot of mentoring). Finally, there's a lot of things I can portray through her personality - having her be stressed off-duty, pursue interim positions whenever possible, get restless when things are quiet, that kind of thing. Suit sensor reminders, that kind of thing.

This appeal isn't about making my case or trying to prove my innocence; although I promise my intentions were never bad, and I never meant to mock or make fun of the admin team (I have a lot of respect and a lot of fear for you all, and Machiavelli says that's a sign of a good leader, to be both feared and loved), I accept that I've fucked up terribly and I can do better. I must do better. I'm sorry. I mentioned it earlier, but if you decide you don't want me around, just say the word; and if you are okay with keeping me on the server and in the medical department, please let me know what I can do to make things right and give back to the community I've taken so much from.

 

Thank you.

UponASeaOfStars / Aveline LaCroix

Edited January 19, 2023 by UponASeaOfStars

[WickedCybs]

What you've done before coming to Aurora is not relevant. It's best to keep an appeal concise and to the point.

Here are some reasons I can't really approve of this appeal.

• You're just restating your justifications on why the character acts the way they do rather than pinpointing what the problem that this causes even is. You did this in our tickets. I know you've done this to other staff. You've been told what the problems are. It doesn't really read as if you understand any of them.
• You're making up this idea of "corporate regulations" binding your character into inaction. Indeed, in this very thread you tell me that's going to be the reasoning you use going forward should you return. That's not a positive thing. If you're told to fix an issue the solution isn't keeping the problematic aspects of your character but acting as if an outside force (in this case, referring to us) is preventing you from acting on it. It makes you seem as if you're still going to try to find any and all reason to bypass me as you did in the situation that this led to the appeal.
• You're not being straightforward. 

That aside, I don't believe I'll ever be comfortable with allowing your character to exist as they are, especially with you only planning on minor changes. Out of all the ways to portray a workaholic, why did they land on the do-everything square rather than the nuanced take you want to convince me is happening here? It doesn't seem to account for this being a collaborative roleplaying server. You also say that this is something that isn't useful, that they're wasting time due to their over-preparation... just in case. You're not the first to do that and yet for some reason this "problem" ends up working out to the benefit of the person doing it, which is hard to see as a coincidence. If I hear something like "I work too hard, I care too much and I'm too invested in my job" then I'm not hearing any flaws. These are excuses to ignore others and do what you want.

When you say "Please let me know what I can do to make things right and give back to the community I've taken so much from." it just reinforces to me that you either aren't listening or that there's been some breakdown in understanding as well. We have been telling you how you can stay out of trouble a lot. It's why you were banned. If you would like to play the medical roles again I need to be sure you understand, so you need to explain to me concisely what the issues were and how you aren't going to let it happen again. Something like "corporate won't let me help" is not the lesson you should be learning here nor is it one we've been telling you.

So why is it important that your character doesn't know everything, can't do everything and should be able to stay in their lane? Why is it not a good thing to step over people, order them around and attempt to do their jobs? At the same time, why is the absence of other people not an excuse to "step up" and do what should be outside of your expertise?

You can tell me that either now or in another appeal sometime in the future.

[UponASeaOfStars]

Hi! Okay, in the interests of brevity I'll just answer the questions directly, so here we go...

Quote

Why did they land on the do-everything square rather than the nuanced take you want to convince me is happening here? It doesn't seem to account for this being a collaborative roleplaying server.

Because my first instinct was to play a character whose abilities are represented mechanically rather than in the lore, since I migrated from /tg/'s Manuel (MRP) and Dungeons and Dragons (where the PCs are all protagonists, and as a result are kind of expected to be exceptional). I talked about it with some folks in the discord, and realised "oh, yeah, okay, that's not a good idea here, let's adjust Aveline" but then I tried to log in and that's when I discovered the ban -- that is to say, I made the necessary changes too late.

Quote

We have been telling you how you can stay out of trouble a lot.

My question of how to make amends wasn't just "how can I stay out of trouble", it was "how can I actively give back to the community and make up for the damage I've caused"; if you punch someone in the face and then apologise and don't do it again, the broken nose doesn't go away. The least you can do is pay the medical bills and clean their house or something.

Quote

So why is it important that your character doesn't know everything, can't do everything and should be able to stay in their lane?

Because nobody knows everything, that's just not realistic. There is no human being alive who is capable of doing everything to perfection even in one field, because skill requires practice, and practice requires time. If you spend twenty years of your life studying to become an expert brain surgeon, you can't then also be an expert in biochemistry and trauma medicine at the same time. There's only so much one person can do, after all! That, and from a ludological standpoint it's honestly kinda lame to have one person do everything to perfection. Not only does it set a bad precedent and encourage others to do the same, but it removes the need for teamwork and cooperation, which- in a multiplayer game- is the whole point.

Quote

Why is it not a good thing to step over people, order them around and attempt to do their jobs? 

I've always been insistent that this isn't kosher -- sure, it might be against regs IC, but far more importantly, it's a dick move OOC. If you play a Bartender and then the Engineer comes up and starts serving drinks, they're taking your job from you, meaning you don't really have anything to do - which isn't fun. And I think we all agree we're here to have fun, right? The same thing goes to ordering people around; there's a fine line between coordinating a department and being a boots-too-big butterbar, and that line is when it stops being enjoyable. In the end, we're here to have a good time, and taking people's jobs and going "respect my authoritah!!" isn't a good time for anyone.

Quote

At the same time, why is the absence of other people not an excuse to "step up" and do what should be outside of your expertise?

This one, I admit I have more trouble answering. The easy OOC answer is "because the staff team doesn't like it", but then that just reroutes the question to why it is disliked, and I'm not the best at filling in the blanks there. If it's something your character wouldn't be able to do, the answer is simple-- it's bad roleplay. Even if there's no engineer, you probably shouldn't be setting up the engine as a security cadet, and if you have the OOC knowledge and it needs doing IC... just swap characters, because your current character wouldn't know how. And even if your character would know, IC, the answer is just "corporate regs won't insure you for it, so you'd be fired", but then that still raises the question of why OOC. So rather than answer a question I don't know the answer to, I'm going to use a lifeline: Ask the Audience.

I'll be back.

[UponASeaOfStars]

I'm back, and... I misunderstood the assignment.

The answer to "if your character can do this thing, why shouldn't they be able to do it if nobody else can and it needs doing?" isn't relevant, because in Aveline's specific instance, she shouldn't be able to anyway; although the backstory is plausible for an exceptional character (such as one might see in D&D), it's not plausible for an average everyday spessman, because that's the kind of character we play here. As a result, that means I'll need to rewrite Aveline's backstory heavily-- although her current iteration is trained in basic pharmaceutical synthesis, she shouldn't be, so I'll need to do some serious thinking and shelve her until there's a version of her that works for both me and Aurora.

I'm actually going to request the medical ban stay until I've been able to finalise the new Aveline. In-character, this is represented by her being placed on paid medical leave while she adjusts to her new limb. In the meantime, I'll see about exploring other departments.

[WickedCybs]

52 minutes ago, UponASeaOfStars said:

snip

What I said was "Why is the absence of other people not an excuse to "step up" and do what should be outside of your expertise?". I didn't say "if your character can do this thing, why shouldn't they be able to do it if nobody else can and it needs doing?". Like you said, your character shouldn't have that knowledge, it's outside of their skillset. So you wouldn't be filling in for what you can't do.

Anyway, the day ban will be over soon but I'll lift it so you can do stuff for the rest of the day. Make sure to ahelp if you want to do something but you think it might be bad, or there's something you're unsure of. Also give some consideration to how stuff is going to look if we tell you not to do something. Yesterday when I said "Help only if the situation calls for it and only if you get permission" you then obliquely stated "Corporate will kill me if you don't say I can help." in character and then told me "This guy explicitly said I can help." after a Doctor said yes. You can probably see the problem with that since this was all after the fact.

You can appeal the medical role ban whenever you want. Wise decision to explore your options and try out another department for a bit though. I'll lock this thread tomorrow if we're done.

Edited January 15, 2023 by WickedCybs

[UponASeaOfStars]

No further questions, your honor, I'll let you know when I've got a better Aveline! ❤️