Evandorf Posted February 9, 2024 Author Posted February 9, 2024 On 09/02/2024 at 09:05, OolongCow said: I am not, and if I made you feel that way, I apologize. You're one of my favorite antag players and I specifically point at you (as can be attested by a discord search) whenever antag players go "well, how SHOULD I behave?" By my standards you do do that and I appreciate it immensely. People like you are one of the reasons security is tolerable and I can't overstate, again, how much I appreciate it. You had my respect for actually talking to security and attempting to play an actual character who's also sometimes an antag before last Sunday, and your decision to not crash the canon barbecue but actually ahelp if you could cryo and join in on your security character because you thought it'd be more fun and you valued the RP more than "haha I interrupted an event lol!" just cemented that opinion. My perceptions and how I feel aren't actionable. While you and players like you dedicated to improving things don't fall under the umbrella of my post, I'm not going to just not say those things. Because, let's be honest, John Hub outnumbers you and the regulars who do actually play antag 3 to 1, and the negative experiences they cause are unfortunately more memorable than the good ones you make. I agree. It's a cold war of antag players and sec players refusing to trust each other. Thus why I support Sue's suggestion of a visitation area. There's probably more I could say to encourage further interaction between captured antags and the crew (legal counsel, more incentive to talk to detectives, etc.) but that wasn't in the thread's scope and I don't want to shift it too much. My objection is that I, personally, don't think this will provide enough positives to outweigh the plainly inevitable negatives. In retrospect, it's so easy to escape from the brig as-is due to wardens not existing / not even following procedure (when is the last time anyone actually saw a serious criminal get tracking implanted despite half the crimes in the Major section requiring it?) out of fear of metagaming that it quite literally doesn't matter if the antag abuses this proposed system to do it, so I don't disagree here. I'm going to be honest, here: You are good at this. If the average antag player were all Evandorf clones I'd support your point entirely. But they aren't, and the average antag player displays a level of consideration for others and social awareness roughly equivalent to the average sec player: that being none. It feels like if they were allowed to, most autotraitors would DDoS my computer just because it was a big red button on their screen and it made them win if they knew they wouldn't get in trouble with admins. They do not care about me, or you, or the tense interrogation roleplay going on between Shaw and the investigator. They want to make spaceman horizontal. They want to see funny things happen. They want to post in general chat about how they totally owned security and say: ">extended see you guys in three hours" because they come to an RP server and make non-character antag-only slots where you're lucky to get more than two paragraphs out of them the entire round. It's frustrating, and I loathe giving people like that more rope to hang me with despite knowing that someone has to take the first step, because this server isn't a job for me. I come here to have fun. I shouldn't have to put up with rounds where I actively do not have fun and suffer with the faith that me solely doing so will magically change the behavior of antag players - most of whom disappear after two months anyway and thus don't have any ability to influence new antags even if I do somehow convince them to trust and respect security players. It's frustrating, man. I've been playing this game for almost six years, and every server is the same with the back and forth between antags and security. Aurora is the closest to having it right, I want to trust antag players won't abuse something like this. I know you won't. I know Nikola won't. But I don't trust John Hub to not look at this, go "I should find the best way to be annoying," and then give security another thing to make their lives miserable until he gets bored and John Hub the Second comes along and begins the cycle anew. I just don't think this is the answer and would support looking elsewhere. Expand I appreciate your perspective and it wasn’t my intention to say you shouldn’t share it. Intended meaning can get lost via text and I believe open communication is key for this sort of thing so I was just expressing my feelings at the moment. I agree with much of what you said and know the frustration of having to give antags leeway while getting very little in return. To be fair, the feeling can be mutual when dealing with security. If I’m halfway to the culmination of a gimmick and peacefully come in for questioning only to get charged with as many charges as they think is tangentially appropriate for the apparent purpose of keeping me in a cell for as long as possible then I also feel as if the courtesy was wasted. From a moderator’s standpoint, it’s clearer which antag players are well intentioned and which are likely going to eat a ban in a few weeks. Well intentioned antags can still fall into the feeling of futility and frustration though. I’m not sure what the answer is but I know that my perspective started to shift and I began having much more fun when I thought of SS13 less like a video game and more like D&D or improv. You’ll often hear people warn you not to have a ‘winning’ mentality but just the fact that it’s framed as a video game has a lot of innate trappings and, for me at least, unconsciously sets your expectations. I honestly think becoming a mod did a lot for shifting my perspective. You see so much more behind the curtain that you start to see it as a stage in a performance. Well anyway, I’ve gotten somewhat off topic but I could ramble about this forever if possible. Suffice to say, I appreciate you as well and I’m glad you enjoy my antaggery. 1 Quote
OolongCow Posted February 10, 2024 Posted February 10, 2024 On 09/02/2024 at 16:17, Evandorf said: If I’m halfway to the culmination of a gimmick and peacefully come in for questioning only to get charged with as many charges as they think is tangentially appropriate for the apparent purpose of keeping me in a cell for as long as possible then I also feel as if the courtesy was wasted. Expand As a HoS player I try my best to correct this behavior when I see it and reward antags for cooperating. I'm always running to get them water, food, asking if they need anything, et cetera. Quote
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